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Psalm45_9
Guest
I agree with you, I sometimes attend the Divine Liturgy myself. Being part Ukrainian, I feel that it is a part of me, it’s my roots.
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Elzee
Guest
Psalm45:9:
The prayers after Communion were the ones that really hit me. I wish in the Latin Rite we would take more time to pray together after Communion. We’ve just taken part in heaven on earth and we should savor that time afterwards and praise God together in the Body of Christ more than we do, in my opinion.
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Friar_David_O.Carm
Guest
Each Byzantine Church has its own Eparchies. Eparchy is the word we use for Diocese.
So, for example, I live in Rochester, New York. Which is in the Latin Diocese of Rochester headed by Bishop Clark. This city is in the Byzantine Catholic Eparchy of Passiac headed by Bishop Andrew, who is my Eparch as I am a Byzantine Catholic. This city is also in the Melkite Eparchy of Newton headed by Archbishop Cyril and the Ukrainian Eparchy of Stamford headed by Bishop Basil.
Hope that helps.
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Elzee
Guest
Yes thanks…a couple more if you don’t mind!
What is a ‘metropolitan’? I heard this word in the prayers for the Pope and our Bishop.
The priest said he would refer to our Bishop as ‘Your Grace’ in the Byzantine Church. Is this how I would address a Byzantine Bishop?
During communion, a cloth was held under each communicant’s chin instead of a paten as in the Latin Rite. At one point, the cloth slipped out of the hands of the men holding it and the priest simply picked it up and continued. Is there a concern about crumbs from the cloth falling on the floor - or the floor being wet from the cloth being wet from the Precious Blood?
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Friar_David_O.Carm
Guest
You have Metropolitian Archbishops in the Latin Church. The head of the Byzantine Catholic Church is Metropolitian Archbishop Basil of the Archeparchy of Pittsburgh.
The only bishop I had the pleasure of addressing personally was Metropolitian Basil and I used the ‘Your Eminence’ form. Father Deacon Ed can answer this one better I am sure.
I think this depends on the priest. The two priests I have worked with closely, one Melkite and one Byzantine, both have acted in this way. The cloth is the standard method we use.
Some of the reactions of Latin priests I have seen regarding crumbs seem odd to me. The Eucharist contains the real presence of Christ until it no longer holds the form of bread and wine. Is a crumb bread? Is a stain wine?
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Elzee
Guest
Hmm, good question. I would say a consecrated crumb and a wet cloth still are the body and blood of our Lord. A dried stain…don’t know about that one. I would say no but I don’t know… anyone??
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Friar_David_O.Carm
Guest
Again, I really do not have an opinion on this matter as of yet.
But… is a wet stain any different form a dry stain? Is a wet stain still wine? When is a crumb small enough to no longer be the Body? Is a microscopic crumb still the Body? If so how do we treat it?
Hmmm…
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Brain
Guest
better safe than sorry.
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Irish_Melkite
Guest
Psalm45:9:
As David said, temples built during the period when latinization was at its height (turn of the 20th century until the 60s essentially) reflect that fact in their liturgical furnishings; Latin aspects, such as communion railings, side altars, confessionals, pews, and kneelers were commonly built into the structure or were retained when a previously Latin church was sold to or otherwise turned over to Eastern Catholics for their use.
Elzee:
I want to elaborate a bit on what David said. A Latin bishop has jurisdiction over Eastern or Oriental Catholic parishes and faithful in his diocese if the particular Eastern or Oriental Catholic Church to which that parish and those faithful belong does not have a its own canonical jurisdiction and hierarch in the country. In the US, this means that the respective local Latin bishops have authority over the 4 Byzantine Russian Catholic churches (situated in the Archdioceses of New York, San Francisco, LA, and Denver), Byzantine Italo-Greico-Albanian Catholics in the Archdiocese of New York, the Ethiopian Catholic church in the Archdiocese of Washington (DC), the Coptic Catholic church in the Archdiocese of New York, and the multiple Syro-Malankara Catholic parishes geograhically situated in a variety of Latin archdioceses and dioceses (the latter situation should change shortly, as it is expected that an eparchy will soon be erected for them).
Faithful of an Eastern or Oriental Catholic Church which has no ecclesiastical presence in this country (e.g., Byzantine Byelorussian and Albanian Catholics) generally become the ecclesiastical subjects of the Latin jurisdiction within which they reside. (Exceptions are faithful of the Byzantine Croat, Hungarian, and Slovak Catholic Churches, who are within the jurisdiction of the respective Ruthenian hierarch.)
Some Eastern and Oriental Catholic Churches (e.g., Ruthenians, Ukrainians, Maronites, Chaldeans) have more than a single jurisdiction in the US and each jurisdiction has certain designated areas (usually multiple states) within which its bishop exercises authority over all of his churches and faithful. Other Churches (e.g., Melkite, Armenian Syriac) have a single jurisdiction which encompasses the entire US, including all of the Church’s faithful, wherever situated and regardless of whether they are served by a parish of their Church.
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Psalm,
As David said, temples built during the period when latinization was at its height (turn of the 20th century until the 60s essentially) reflect that fact in their liturgical furnishings; Latin aspects, such as communion railings, side altars, confessionals, pews, and kneelers were commonly built into the structure or were retained when a previously Latin church was sold to or otherwise turned over to Eastern Catholics for their use.
Elzee,
I want to elaborate a bit on what David said. A Latin bishop has jurisdiction over Eastern or Oriental Catholic parishes and faithful in his diocese if the particular Eastern or Oriental Catholic Church to which that parish and those faithful belong does not have a its own canonical jurisdiction and hierarch in the country. In the US, this means that the respective local Latin bishops have authority over the 4 Byzantine Russian Catholic churches (situated in the Archdioceses of New York, San Francisco, LA, and Denver), Byzantine Italo-Greico-Albanian Catholics in the Archdiocese of New York, the Ethiopian Catholic church in the Archdiocese of Washington (DC), the Coptic Catholic church in the Archdiocese of New York, and the multiple Syro-Malankara Catholic parishes geograhically situated in a variety of Latin archdioceses and dioceses (the latter situation should change shortly, as it is expected that an eparchy will soon be erected for them).
Faithful of an Eastern or Oriental Catholic Church which has no ecclesiastical presence in this country (e.g., Byzantine Byelorussian and Albanian Catholics) generally become the ecclesiastical subjects of the Latin jurisdiction within which they reside. (Exceptions are faithful of the Byzantine Croat, Hungarian, and Slovak Catholic Churches, who are within the jurisdiction of the respective Ruthenian hierarch.)
Some Eastern and Oriental Catholic Churches (e.g., Ruthenians, Ukrainians, Maronites, Chaldeans) have more than a single jurisdiction in the US and each jurisdiction has certain designated areas (usually multiple states) within which its bishop exercises authority over all of his churches and faithful. Other Churches (e.g., Melkite, Armenian Syriac) have a single jurisdiction which encompasses the entire US, including all of the Church’s faithful, wherever situated and regardless of whether they are served by a parish of their Church.
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Irish_Melkite
Guest
The proper way to address a Bishop of an the Eastern or Oriental Catholic Church varies somewhat from Church to Church, reflective of linguistic and cultural differences among them. As David noted, Your Eminence is the proper greeting for Metropolitan Basil, presiding hierarch of the Metropolia of Pittsburgh of the Ruthenians.
Excellency or Your Excellency almost always can be appropriately used in greeting any other Byzantine bishop or archbishop, regardless of Church (e.g., Melkite, Ruthenian, or Ukrainian). Melkites and faithful of the Oriental Catholic Churches with origins in the Middle East (i.e., Maronites and Syriacs) often address their bishops as Sayidna; faithful of the Byzantine Churches that originated in Eastern Europe frequently greet their bishops as Vladyka.
Your Grace is only commonly used in addressing bishops of Oriental Catholic Churches that have their origins in former British lands. Thus, Syro-Malankarese and Syro-Malabarese Catholics, both faithful of Oriental Catholic Churches with Indian origins, greet their bishops as Your Grace.
There are, as David noted, Metropolitan Archbishops in the Latin Church but, presently, it is more a title of honor than function.
A diocese is ordinarily headed by a bishop; an archdiocese by an archbishop. Many archdioceses are also metropolitan sees, in which case the archbishop is, technically, styled metropolitan archbishop. To understand this, realize that the US (as an example) is divided into ecclesiastical provinces, each of which consists of (generally) one archdiocese and one or more dioceses. A metropolitan see (or metropolitanate or metropolis) is the principal see within the province and the other sees (usually dioceses) within the province are referred to as suffragn sees and their bishops (or archbishops) are said to be suffragn to the metropolitan archbishop.
At one time, particularly before advances in communication and transportation technology made it possible for Rome to contact or be contacted by almost any hierarch within a matter of minutes, metropolitans exercised considerable jurisdictional authority over their suffragns. That is now solely a matter of historical interest and the role of metropolitan is essentially honorific, having very limited authority with respect to his suffragns. Presemtly, a metropolitan’s rights are:
- to have the place of precedence over any hierarch (other than a patriach or a papal legate) in any procession or ecclesiastical function within a suffragn diocese at which he happens to be in attendance
- to display or have his symbol of office (e.g., his archepiscopal crozier) borne before him when participating in any ecclesiastical function within a suffragn diocese. (Ordinarily, a hierarch - other than a patriarch or papal legate - has no right to display the signs of his jurisdictional authority outside the territorial bounds of his own See.)
- to convoke a provincial council once in every three years, which his suffragns are bound to attend, for the purpose of non-binding discussion relative to issues and/or problems common to two or more of the jurisdictions within the province
- to lead his suffragns in their dicennial ad limina visit to the Holy See to report on the state of their jurisdictions
- to afford a tribunal to hear appeals made to it from decisions taken in the first instance in the tribunals of his suffragn jurisdictions, and
- to name the vicar capitular of a suffragn diocese which is sede vacante, but only if the chapter of the suffragn diocese has failed to do so within the required 8 days after the death of its ordinary
In the Eastern and Oriental Catholic Churches, however, the office of Metropolitan or Metropolitan Archbishop ordinarily still carries with it more authority than is the present case in the Latin Church.
Many years,
Neil
, but I suggest you read the Catholic Encyclopedia topic on
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Polvskoy
Guest
From the hymn Lauda Sion by St.Thomas
Nor a single doubt retain,
When they break the Host in twain,
But that in each part remains
What was in the whole before;
Since the simple sign alone
Suffers change in state or form,
The Signified remaining One
And the Same forevermore
Nor a single doubt retain,
When they break the Host in twain,
But that in each part remains
What was in the whole before;
Since the simple sign alone
Suffers change in state or form,
The Signified remaining One
And the Same forevermore
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