receiving eucharist/grave matter

[constantconvert]

I was not able to take my son to confession today, and I’m not sure if he should receive communion tomorrow. My daughter left ten dollars on the couch, and my son took it. He didn’t know who the money belonged to, but he DID know it wasn’t his. So he broke the 7th commandment, a grave matter. However, I’m pretty sure it wasn’t a mortal sin because I don’t think it meets the other two conditions, full knowledge and full consent. I don’t think he though of it as really stealing, and it was an impulse, not thought out. Of course I can’t know his heart, but as a mom, after talking to him, and giving him his consequences, that’s my assessment. So if one commits a grave sin, but probably not a mortal sin, should one refrain from communion? My son is 10, by the way.

 

[Vico]

I was not able to take my son to confession today, and I’m not sure if he should receive communion tomorrow. My daughter left ten dollars on the couch, and my son took it. He didn’t know who the money belonged to, but he DID know it wasn’t his. So he broke the 7th commandment, a grave matter. However, I’m pretty sure it wasn’t a mortal sin because I don’t think it meets the other two conditions, full knowledge and full consent. I don’t think he though of it as really stealing, and it was an impulse, not thought out. Of course I can’t know his heart, but as a mom, after talking to him, and giving him his consequences, that’s my assessment. So if one commits a grave sin, but probably not a mortal sin, should one refrain from communion? My son is 10, by the way.

Baltimore Catechism No. 1
Q37. What three things are necessary to make a sin mortal?
To make a sin mortal these three things are necessary:

1) the thought, desire, word, action, or omission must be seriously wrong or considered seriously wrong;
2) the sinner must know it is seriously wrong;
3) the sinner must fully consent to it.
​

 

[owensjo]

I was not able to take my son to confession today, and I’m not sure if he should receive communion tomorrow. My daughter left ten dollars on the couch, and my son took it. He didn’t know who the money belonged to, but he DID know it wasn’t his. So he broke the 7th commandment, a grave matter. However, I’m pretty sure it wasn’t a mortal sin because I don’t think it meets the other two conditions, full knowledge and full consent. I don’t think he though of it as really stealing, and it was an impulse, not thought out. Of course I can’t know his heart, but as a mom, after talking to him, and giving him his consequences, that’s my assessment. So if one commits a grave sin, but probably not a mortal sin, should one refrain from communion? My son is 10, by the way.

A grave sin, by definition, is a mortal sin. That is, if full knowledge and consent are there as well. A venial sin is not grave matter, and does not prevent one from receiving communion. When the sin is stealing, I believe the value of what’s stolen and the harm done to the one stolen from, is the arbiter of whether the sin was mortal or venial.

 

[andy92]

Have your son ask the priest before mass on the morality. this will not only teach him to be open with priests, but also teach him the specifics of what he did wrong and why they were wrong. Have him ask specifically if he should refrain, and if there is time if he could confess.

 

[Evania]

It doesn’t sound like a mortal sin. Stealing ten dollars is a sin, but I don’t think it’s a grave sin.

 

[aspirant]

Stealing ten dollars is a sin, but I don’t think it’s a grave sin.

I think the gravity depends on the circumstances. Stealing $10 from an unemployed homeless man would be very grave indeed, as it may be all the money he has. $10 from a hugely lucrative corporation, on the other hand, might not even be missed.

 

[prettiepet]

As a mom of young adult children I know where you are coming from but ultimately it is the person responsable for his or her own soul. I try to lovingly point out to them what I know to be sinful but I do not know their minds so I cannot be their judge. I am not the Communion Police.

 

[constantconvert]

As a mom of young adult children I know where you are coming from but ultimately it is the person responsable for his or her own soul. I try to lovingly point out to them what I know to be sinful but I do not know their minds so I cannot be their judge. I am not the Communion Police.

Hmm, interesting. So you would let him decide for himself? I mean, he knows what he did is wrong, but I’m not sure he could decide whether it’s mortal or venial. I’m having trouble with it myself

 

[constantconvert]

A grave sin, by definition, is a mortal sin. That is, if full knowledge and consent are there as well. A venial sin is not grave matter, and does not prevent one from receiving communion.

It was my understanding that even a venial sin could be a serious matter, if it breaks one of the 10 commandments etc., but that in order to be a mortal sin it had to be serious, with full consent and knowledge.

Can someone weigh in here-- can a venial sin be grave?

 

[englishredrose]

Hmm, interesting. So you would let him decide for himself? I mean, he knows what he did is wrong, but I’m not sure he could decide whether it’s mortal or venial. I’m having trouble with it myself

from an anglican perspective I don’t think we need to worry about whether it mortal or venile. The main thing to worry about is - is he sorry? No one here has suggested either way whether he is sorry or not yet You are all too busy with the venile or mortal and none of that matters if he isn’t actually sorry for it.

For me it not the doing wrong that is important here but the actually being sorry for what he done. You haven’t said if he is sorry

You are going to have to decide whether you are going to give him free reign to decide for himself when he accepts communion or not not just for this sin but any future sins. Are you going to be a sin police kind of parent or easy going on letting him learn and know his own mind. You cannot force anyone to go to confession and even if you did you don’t know what he says in confession. He could end up just saying ‘mom made me come and don’t want to come’ and you would never know if he did because the priest wouldn’t tell. So you can either make him do something that as adults ‘we’ choose for ourselves and allow him the freedom to ask to go to a confession without prying on his sins or you could turn into sin police parent and enforce on him something he don’t want to do and resent it forever.

Don’t know what you did in the end but this is just something to mull over before next time he in your knowledge does something you feel he should confess…

 

[PJM]

=constantconvert;10648269]I was not able to take my son to confession today, and I’m not sure if he should receive communion tomorrow. My daughter left ten dollars on the couch, and my son took it. He didn’t know who the money belonged to, but he DID know it wasn’t his. So he broke the 7th commandment, a grave matter. However, I’m pretty sure it wasn’t a mortal sin because I don’t think it meets the other two conditions, full knowledge and full consent. I don’t think he though of it as really stealing, and it was an impulse, not thought out. Of course I can’t know his heart, but as a mom, after talking to him, and giving him his consequences, that’s my assessment. So if one commits a grave sin, but probably not a mortal sin, should one refrain from communion? My son is 10, by the way.

Its ONLY a GREAT “teaching moment”

Take advantage of it, but DO NOT deprive Him of Holy Communion and DO make getting him to Confession ASAP Priority One} as part of the lesson on “right and wrong”

 

[Saints_Alive]

Have your son ask the priest before mass on the morality. this will not only teach him to be open with priests, but also teach him the specifics of what he did wrong and why they were wrong. Have him ask specifically if he should refrain, and if there is time if he could confess.

If he sees the priest before Mass, just have him confess

 

[Evania]

I think the gravity depends on the circumstances. Stealing $10 from an unemployed homeless man would be very grave indeed, as it may be all the money he has. $10 from a hugely lucrative corporation, on the other hand, might not even be missed.

Completely agree!

That is something for the son to reflect upon the gravity of the matter.

 

[Vico]

It was my understanding that even a venial sin could be a serious matter, if it breaks one of the 10 commandments etc., but that in order to be a mortal sin it had to be serious, with full consent and knowledge.

Can someone weigh in here-- can a venial sin be grave?

Catechism of the Catholic Church:
1857 For a *sin *to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: "Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent."131

1862 One commits venial sin when, in a less serious matter, he does not observe the standard prescribed by the moral law, or when he disobeys the moral law in a grave matter, but without full knowledge or without complete consent.

 

[constantconvert]

Catechism of the Catholic Church:
1857 For a *sin *to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: "Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent."131

1862 One commits venial sin when, in a less serious matter, he does not observe the standard prescribed by the moral law, or when he disobeys the moral law in a grave matter, but without full knowledge or without complete consent.

Thank you Vicco, and how would you know if it was with full or partial knowledge, or full or partial consent? Just curious.

 

[Vico]

Thank you Vicco, and how would you know if it was with full or partial knowledge, or full or partial consent? Just curious.

1859 Mortal sin requires full knowledge and complete consent. It presupposes knowledge of the sinful character of the act, of its opposition to God’s law. It also implies a consent sufficiently deliberate to be a personal choice. Feigned ignorance and hardness of heart 133 do not diminish, but rather increase, the voluntary character of a sin.

 

[aspirant]

Catechism of the Catholic Church:
1857 For a *sin *to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: "Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent."131

1862 One commits venial sin when, in a less serious matter, he does not observe the standard prescribed by the moral law, or when he disobeys the moral law in a grave matter, but without full knowledge or without complete consent.

 

[Bookcat]

I will have to leave it to the parties involved to judge – including regarding three aspects of mortal sin. But I was asked to comment so I add the following as general information.

Can theft admit “smallness of matter” yes.

(Though having said this – theft is a bit more to it at times --for example taking that which is small but necessary for someone --say their last meal has that later aspect weigh into things. Or if say I take some wooden pencil not worth more than 30 cents --but I know that it was his Great Grandfathers pencil he used in WW I and is of great worth to him…that will play into the picture…) )

Is everything that falls under the Ten commandments grave matter? No.

CCC:

The obligation of the Decalogue

2072 Since they express man’s fundamental duties towards God and towards his neighbor, the Ten Commandments reveal, in their primordial content, grave obligations. They are fundamentally immutable, and they oblige always and everywhere. No one can dispense from them. The Ten Commandments are engraved by God in the human heart.

2073 Obedience to the Commandments also implies obligations in matter which is, in itself, light. Thus abusive language is forbidden by the fifth commandment, but would be a grave offense only as a result of circumstances or the offender’s intention.

scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s2.htm

 

[andy92]

Thank you Vicco, and how would you know if it was with full or partial knowledge, or full or partial consent? Just curious.

I have some examples for you:

A person knows that it is intrinsically wrong to murder, shoots a grandma full knowledge

Person supports a cause that has multiple branches, and only knows of the one. or a a teen boy knowing that sex is immoral but know understanding that self sex or masturbation is immoralPartial knowledge

Person doesn’t know that it is a sin, example: a 3yo grabbing money off of a couch NO knowledge

–

Woman gets abortion willinglyFull consent

A soldier has to do some immoral activity Partial consent (he signed the volunteer contract [assuming not drafted]

Man is forced by a despot government to do something immoral no consent

 

[mjbowen]

I think the gravity depends on the circumstances. Stealing $10 from an unemployed homeless man would be very grave indeed, as it may be all the money he has. $10 from a hugely lucrative corporation, on the other hand, might not even be missed.

Stealing is stealing it does not matter if it is from a rich man or a poor man the seriousness of the sin is still the same.