Receiving Eucharist in a state of mortal sin

[maryj]

Thank you g_ncl…I meant Mortal sin…should always proof read before posting!!

 

[AnneTeresa]

Having more knowledge than you when it comes to theology, moral teachings, Church practices, etc doesn’t make me a better person.

I was referring to your staying in your seat and not receiving Christ just because you were uncertain.

Communion can’t help us focus on Christ when we’re lying on the ground with our face in the dirt. Receiving Communion in that condition doesn’t do us any good; we’re too distracted by all that dirt. But once we go to confession and get back on our feet, once we’re dusted off and don’t have dirt in our eyes, then Communion will help us keep our eyes on Christ.

It makes sense to me that if you know for absolute certain that you have mortally sinned you not receive Christ because you truly do have your face in the dirt. What I don’t “get” is why if you are unsure or if you are really sorry, then I think Christ would want you to receive him and get grace in communion. That’s what I’ve done. But of course I don’t know if my contrition is EVER really 100% pure, I think only real saints would know that. But I do know that Christ loves and forgives me anyway when I am really trying, no matter how much I fail along the way. I mean, that’s the Good News, right?

I don’t know why this is all so hard for me to understand and I am getting mad at myself. It makes sense what you say but I still have questions.

BTW, it is cool that you have such great theological training available to you! I could probably never teach CCD because I would complicate things too much by seeing all the different angles and sides to things.

 

[AnneTeresa]

The Lord gave Peter the keys, and it is the Church that holds these keys now. This is where the authority of the Church comes from, with which it establishes rules for all of us to follow. We can only access the sacraments according to how the Church, to which they belong, says we should, not according to what we individually think or feel.

This is part of my problem with it. I think perhaps one can, based on one’s own history and experience, maybe be “beyond” certain rules. I know that sounds awful (like I am making up my own rules) and someone will jump down my throat, but “rules” are only to guide us in getting/staying close to Christ.

If they do not work for us but something else does, then maybe they should not be strictly followed as a “rule” but considered as a guide that one tries to see if it fits and adjusts if it does not. Not that I’m a real mature Catholic or “beyond rules”, I do not mean that. But different circumstances and inner dispositions DO matter and what is going on interiorly is more important than externally following “rules”, for someone who is trying but just can’t seem to “get” it. I’m referring more to whether one should take communion if one is uncertain of the state of their soul but longing to receive Christ in Eucharist, not having broken the fast, in which case I would definitely not take communion.

 

[maryj]

I was referring to your staying in your seat and not receiving Christ just because you were uncertain.

It makes sense to me that if you know for absolute certain that you have mortally sinned you not receive Christ because you truly do have your face in the dirt. What I don’t “get” is why if you are unsure or if you are really sorry, then I think Christ would want you to receive him and get grace in communion. That’s what I’ve done. But of course I don’t know if my contrition is EVER really 100% pure, I think only real saints would know that. But I do know that Christ loves and forgives me anyway when I am really trying, no matter how much I fail along the way. I mean, that’s the Good News, right?

I don’t know why this is all so hard for me to understand and I am getting mad at myself. It makes sense what you say but I still have questions.

BTW, it is cool that you have such great theological training available to you! I could probably never teach CCD because I would complicate things too much by seeing all the different angles and sides to things.

Have you thought about spending some time in front of the Blessed Sacrament in
Adoration? I try to get into our Adoration chapel before I go to confession, with a good examination of conscience. I have found that when I do this I have a much better confession and after confession I am stronger in areas where I have been weak and have sinned.

 

[Alindawyl]

I was referring to your staying in your seat and not receiving Christ just because you were uncertain.

Ah, I see. But my uncertainty wasn’t about having sinned. I knew I had sinned. It was only about whether or not I had perfect contrition. Since that’s not something we can ever know with certainty, it wasn’t really a difficult decision.

It makes sense to me that if you know for absolute certain that you have mortally sinned you not receive Christ because you truly do have your face in the dirt. What I don’t “get” is why if you are unsure or if you are really sorry, then I think Christ would want you to receive him and get grace in communion. That’s what I’ve done. But of course I don’t know if my contrition is EVER really 100% pure, I think only real saints would know that. But I do know that Christ loves and forgives me anyway when I am really trying, no matter how much I fail along the way. I mean, that’s the Good News, right?

There is a sharp difference between being uncertain about having committed a mortal sin and being uncertain about having perfect contrition for what you believe to be a mortal sin. In the first case, it’s your call whether or not you receive Communion. If, after prayerful consideration, you choose to receive Communion, I would recommend going to confession ASAP after Mass to remove your uncertainty about the sin. But the reception of Communion is your call.

Uncertainty about perfect contrition is a different story. We must NEVER presume that we have perfect contrition. The sin of pride lies down that road.

I don’t know why this is all so hard for me to understand and I am getting mad at myself. It makes sense what you say but I still have questions.

Don’t be afraid to ask questions. It’s hard to learn if you never ask questions. I would also recommend maryj’ suggestion to spend some time with the Blessed Sacrament in Adoration. Going to Adoration helps deepen our relationship with Christ.

This is part of my problem with it. I think perhaps one can, based on one’s own history and experience, maybe be “beyond” certain rules. I know that sounds awful (like I am making up my own rules) and someone will jump down my throat, but “rules” are only to guide us in getting/staying close to Christ.

If they do not work for us but something else does, then maybe they should not be strictly followed as a “rule” but considered as a guide that one tries to see if it fits and adjusts if it does not. Not that I’m a real mature Catholic or “beyond rules”, I do not mean that. But different circumstances and inner dispositions DO matter and what is going on interiorly is more important than externally following “rules”, for someone who is trying but just can’t seem to “get” it. I’m referring more to whether one should take communion if one is uncertain of the state of their soul but longing to receive Christ in Eucharist, not having broken the fast, in which case I would definitely not take communion.

If you believe that you possess greater authority than the Church, then you’re welcome to exercise it in deciding which rules apply to you and which don’t. Just be prepared to answer the question Christ is likely to ask you in the end, which is “You took it upon yourself to make rules of your own which directly contradict some of the rules of the Church. The authority of the Catholic Church comes from me, the head of the Church. Where did your authority come from?”

I don’t know about you, but that’s not a question I ever want to be asked. I know for a fact that I don’t have the authority to decide which rules apply to me and which don’t. As I lack that authority, I choose to defer to the only place where, as far as I can tell, that authority resides on earth - the Church established by Jesus Christ. If I ever thought that I had a better idea than the Church on how something should be done, I would still defer to the Church by presenting it to my priest and asking him about it.

 

[AnneTeresa]

There is a sharp difference between being uncertain about having committed a mortal sin and being uncertain about having perfect contrition for what you believe to be a mortal sin. In the first case, it’s your call whether or not you receive Communion. If, after prayerful consideration, you choose to receive Communion, I would recommend going to confession ASAP after Mass to remove your uncertainty about the sin. But the reception of Communion is your call.

I see what you mean. I am getting the two mixed up but hearing this helped me.

Uncertainty about perfect contrition is a different story. We must NEVER presume that we have perfect contrition. The sin of pride lies down that road.

Yes, I agree.

Don’t be afraid to ask questions. It’s hard to learn if you never ask questions. I would also recommend maryj’ suggestion to spend some time with the Blessed Sacrament in Adoration. Going to Adoration helps deepen our relationship with Christ.

I will do that. I do Adoration regularly anyway. I know at one point I prayed to understand the real presence and over time, it became much clearer to me. So I know it helps.

If you believe that you possess greater authority than the Church, then you’re welcome to exercise it in deciding which rules apply to you and which don’t. Just be prepared to answer the question Christ is likely to ask you in the end, which is “You took it upon yourself to make rules of your own which directly contradict some of the rules of the Church. The authority of the Catholic Church comes from me, the head of the Church. Where did your authority come from?”

I don’t know about you, but that’s not a question I ever want to be asked. I know for a fact that I don’t have the authority to decide which rules apply to me and which don’t. As I lack that authority, I choose to defer to the only place where, as far as I can tell, that authority resides on earth - the Church established by Jesus Christ. If I ever thought that I had a better idea than the Church on how something should be done, I would still defer to the Church by presenting it to my priest and asking him about it.

Hmmm, I’m not sure I believe I have greater authority than the church. It may be more of a case of I don’t understand what the church says or how to interpret it correctly. That said, I don’t know how to respond when someone says that Christ will be asking me about something. Don’t I know it! I have a whole lifetime of junk I’ll have to answer for and this will probably be among the least of them. At least I think so. But I also trust God’s mercy. I mean what else do we really have? He understands how we struggle with stuff and if we’re on the right path and keep trying, then I have to believe that is enough for Him.

There are just some very confusing things to me and different priests tell you different things. So I sort of learned how to sort it all out myself. Others can tell you how they interpret something and in the end, you sort of have to decide for yourself. (So I do agree with what you said about asking a priest but there are limits to that too, and we ultimately are responsible for our own choices.) I’m not talking about clear black/white church teachings but other gray areas.

Thanks to you and Mary for all your help. I am going to think/pray about all this. I really appreciate your patience with me. It is hard to find people who are willing to help you as you are trying to learn this stuff and don’t just get impatient and tell you to just do it, but not help you through the understanding. At one point in this conversation I started to feel really paranoid and thought “I’m never going to be able to take communion with a clear heart again”, but I realized that is NOT from God. I am trying to seek the Truth and that is all one can do.

 

[g_ncl]

Thank you g_ncl…I meant Mortal sin…should always proof read before posting!!

I was thinking a lot whether to post the “correction”, sounded so much like nitpicking, for which I apologise, just wanted to make sure.

This is part of my problem with it. I think perhaps one can, based on one’s own history and experience, maybe be “beyond” certain rules.

You can, in many things. But not these. Remember that the rules we are talking about constitute maybe 5% of the whole of your spiritual life. (But the very basis of your spiritual life though.) You have a lot of choices from when, what and how to pray, how often to participate in certain sacraments and the general way you live your spiritual life. I suppose someone like Pius X. or Padre Pio could have “bent” the rules according to things like their inner disposition - but I am also sure they would have never thought of doing so. If you look at the life of saints, most were painstakingly obedient to the Church in every respect.

I would liken this a bit to driving a car. You have a lot of choices ranging from your footware, whether to wear sunglasses or not, whether to have a handsfree mobile phone and talk while driving, the make of the car itself. You have a lot of choice re. your speed, whether to switch to four-wheel-drive or use the fog lights. You do not have a choice whether to stop at a railway level crossing if the light is red. Not even if you are a police car with the blue lights on.

different priests tell you different things. So I sort of learned how to sort it all out myself.

Get a good, concise catechism written for adults. The things you are asking will be in there, black and white, they are not grey areas and they do not depend on theological points of view.

 

[Alindawyl]

Hmmm, I’m not sure I believe I have greater authority than the church. That said, I don’t know how to respond when someone says that Christ will be asking me about something. Don’t I know it! I have a whole lifetime of junk I’ll have to answer for and this will probably be among the least of them. At least I think so. But I also trust God’s mercy. I mean what else do we really have? He understands how we struggle with stuff and if we’re on the right path and keep trying, then I have to believe that is enough for Him.

All that “junk” you’ve done in the past is over and done with as far as God is concerned if you’ve gone to confession for it. Once you confess any sin, no matter how awful, God throws it away and doesn’t hold it against you any longer. So you can throw it away as well and stop holding it against yourself.

Which is easier said than done for most of us, myself included.

Thanks to you and Mary for all your help. I am going to think/pray about all this. I really appreciate your patience with me. It is hard to find people who are willing to help you as you are trying to learn this stuff and don’t just get impatient and tell you to just do it, but not help you through the understanding. At one point in this conversation I started to feel really paranoid and thought “I’m never going to be able to take communion with a clear heart again”, but I realized that is NOT from God. I am trying to seek the Truth and that is all one can do.

Thanks to you as well. I could say from this end that many people who ask questions are not really looking to have questions answered but are simply looking for affirmation for what they’ve already decided the answer should be. You haven’t done that.

If you approach things with humility rather than “I already know the answer,” it’s hard to go wrong. Especially if you pray with a humble heart and trust in God, even when God’s answer isn’t what you want to hear.

 

[AnneTeresa]

All that “junk” you’ve done in the past is over and done with as far as God is concerned if you’ve gone to confession for it. Once you confess any sin, no matter how awful, God throws it away and doesn’t hold it against you any longer. So you can throw it away as well and stop holding it against yourself.

I thought I was done with this conversation, but I have to ask. Are you saying that at judgement God will only ask you about things you haven’t confessed? I thought you had to answer about EVERYTHING.

 

[AnneTeresa]

I would liken this a bit to driving a car. You have a lot of choices ranging from your footware, whether to wear sunglasses or not, whether to have a handsfree mobile phone and talk while driving, the make of the car itself. You have a lot of choice re. your speed, whether to switch to four-wheel-drive or use the fog lights. You do not have a choice whether to stop at a railway level crossing if the light is red. Not even if you are a police car with the blue lights on.

Interesting, thanks for the analogy.

Get a good, concise catechism written for adults. The things you are asking will be in there, black and white, they are not grey areas and they do not depend on theological points of view.

I have a catechism. I’ve read parts and I do consult it. But it’s not enough. I often need to talk it through with someone. Guess that’s how I learn.

 

[Alindawyl]

I thought I was done with this conversation, but I have to ask. Are you saying that at judgement God will only ask you about things you haven’t confessed? I thought you had to answer about EVERYTHING.

The only sins we have to answer for when we are judged are unconfessed sins. We don’t have to answer for anything which is forgiven. That’s the wonder of God’s mercy and why confession is so important. He truly does forgive and forget when we repent and come to Him humbly asking for forgiveness. He doesn’t literally forget, of course, because God knows everything and can’t possibly “forget”. But once we sincerely repent, God’s forgiveness is perfect and total. He will never hold a forgiven sin against us. It would not be just to do that, and God is perfectly just.

 

[johnnyjones]

I have received communion in the state of mortal sin, but it was for lack of knowledge and also a lack of understanding about the eucharist. This was during my on the fence of a reversion process. I forgot the real importance of the eucharist even though I had gone to Catholic schools.

After returning to catholicism I became conscious of what is important and what I must do. I have sinned since my return and I must say it is uncomfortable being at mass and not going to communion while it seems the whole church is. I actually got a good stare down once or twice. I just don’t want to receive Christ in that sinful state and it is forbidden to do so as well, which makes complete sense.

The whole process of seemingly standing as the lone sinner at mass adds to your conviction. It’s like having a big “A” on you like in the puritan times when women had to stand out as adultresses. My body and spirit is actually still desperate for the eucharist in the state of mortal sin. Upon receiving the sacrament of reconciliation I stand anxious to physically receive the Lord. It is beautiful to receive the Eucharist in a state of grace. Do not receive communion in the state of mortal sin, it chastizes the spirit and offends the mind.

 

[g_ncl]

I have a catechism. I’ve read parts and I do consult it. But it’s not enough. I often need to talk it through with someone. Guess that’s how I learn.

Please continue to ask questions! I just thought maybe you did not know about the “shortcut” of a good catechism. I am surprised how many people, who have used short question-answer type catechisms as a child do not realise that there are catechisms published for adults, which are not in question-answer form and which properly explain the teaching of the Church with references, the way intelligent adults would want it explained. Apologies for assuming you might not know about them.

On a different note: I am amazed at reading about what many of you in the US write about peer pressure and the whole of the church going to communion. Here in England maybe a three quarters of the people go, so there are always plenty who don’t. In my Eastern European native country a little over half of the people who are at the Mass go. (People want to fulfill the Sunday Mass obligation but shy away from confession, so don’t receive.) I have never thought that the situation you describe could arise, that everybody goes and if you don’t, you are looked at weirdly… Really the last thing you need when you are suffering from not being in full communion with the Lord anyway…

 

[maryj]

Well I went on a little vacation with the family and come home to read the most wonderful posts on this thread!! Thank you all for such calm, welcoming advice to one another…it makes my heart very glad. Praise God!

 

[bearer]

Have you ever received the Eucharist when you were aware of Mortal sin in your life?

No.

There is no point in doing so as that act of sacrilege would only damn a person that much more by demonstrating conscious disregard for Christ. You might as well throw the Eucharist into a sewer.

For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the death of the Lord until he comes. Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will have to answer for the body and blood of the Lord. A person should examine himself, and so eat the bread and drink the cup. For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body, eats and drinks judgment on himself. That is why many among you are ill and infirm, and a considerable number are dying. If we discerned ourselves, we would not be under judgment; but since we are judged by [the] Lord, we are being disciplined so that we may not be condemned along with the world. (1 Corinthians 11:26-32)

 

[maryj]

No.

There is no point in doing so as that act of sacrilege would only damn a person that much more by demonstrating conscious disregard for Christ. You might as well throw the Eucharist into a sewer.

I’ve always wished there was a “LIKE” button! The problem is there are so many that don’t understand this point. Lord have mercy on us.

 

[cnon12]

And what did this friend say to you? Did what this friend tell you have an immediate impact?

He basically talked me through the reasons why we should abstain, but in a way that didn’t sound so theological. He basically said to me, if you were standing before Christ, how would you like to present yourself? Then he reminded me that the Eucharist IS Christ.

It didn’t hit me straight away, until much later in fact. I had been called out on why I believed certain things as a Catholic, and began my journey deeper into my own faith. Then all the dots connected pretty much. I still remember, it was straight to confession after that.

 

[cnon12]

It is possible to go up and receive a blessing from the priest - one doesn’t have to stay in the pew. All you have to do is cross your arms over your chest and the priest will give you a blessing. On those occasions, I do make sure it is a priest and not a eucharistic minister.

Ishii

Yep, a few of my friends have begun doing this as well. And you make a very good point regarding going to a Priest for the blessing as opposed to a lay person, a friend of mine once went up for a blessing one Mass to a Eucharistic Minister and he seemed a bit unsure…so he attempted to place the host between my friends lips and slowly pushed it into his mouth.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Have you ever received the Eucharist when you were aware of Mortal sin in your life? Did this affect you, spiritually, physically, emotionally in any adverse ways? Have you gone from receiving the Eucharist in an unworthy manner to that of being in a state of Grace when you receive, and did/have you noticed a change in your spiritual, physical or emotional being? Simple/complex question!

When I was a more nominal Catholic, I did. Was I affected in a negative way in any way, shape or form? No. I would say the constant going to Mass and occassional (I didn’t receive all the time) reception provided me with the grace to grow in the faith and repent. Though this understanding is more in-line with the Eastern understanding of the Eucharist more than the Western.

 

[TimothyH]

When I was a more nominal Catholic, I did. Was I affected in a negative way in any way, shape or form? No. I would say the constant going to Mass and occassional (I didn’t receive all the time) reception provided me with the grace to grow in the faith and repent. Though this understanding is more in-line with the Eastern understanding of the Eucharist more than the Western.

I believe it.

-Tim-