Receiving Sacraments from an unconventional Priest

[Bergon]

I started attending my local parish and RCIA in the fall of 2011. I received the Sacrament of Reconciliation, then Confirmation and Holy Communion at the Easter Vigil in 2012. I have attended Sunday Mass and kept Holy Days from the beginning, and happily find myself doing so out of my own desire and benefit rather than that of obligation. I enjoy my church and Pastor, and love the friends I’ve made there. I also became engaged to a wonderful “Cradle Catholic” this past spring, and we look forward to growing old together. He has obligations that prevent his attending church with me on Sundays, but about once a month we go together to his church for Saturday Mass. [He does not feel the obligation to attend every week, and I maintain that is between him and God.] I even still attend my own church the Sunday following our Saturdays, I love it that much!

I have told him that I want to attend marriage prep classes, and he has agreed to do so through my church. We’re both in our mid 40’s, and neither have the desire nor inclination to have a big wedding ceremony. Our families are spread throughout the US, and to try to plan even a reception that included the most remote of possible attendees would cause more stress for me than it would joy, in the long run. My fiance expressed some time ago that he’d be happiest getting married on a boat, just the two of us with witnesses, and I liked the idea, as long as God would be there as represented by a Priest. [At the time, I didn’t know the Catholic church doesn’t really allow for the Sacrament of Marriage outside of the church.] After RCIA, a married couple that had also received Sacraments went on to have their marriage Blessed by our Pastor in a private ceremony at my church. It was then that I asked him about my now fiance’s idea. He said that was a Destination Wedding, and that I could do that, and then have him hear the vows and Bless our union as he had done for my friends [their having been married prior to conversion].

I’ve been reading the forums here for some time now, and really appreciate the ability to learn about the Catholic faith in this way. In doing so, it has become quite clear to me that my Pastor is rather uncustomary when it comes to following the rules of the church. By example, he has expressed that an average sinner really only needs to reconcile once or twice in their lifetime, that most sins are forgiven during the Penitential Rite at Mass. While I appreciate the ease of reconciling with this confessor [his usual lack of assigning penance aside], I often seek Reconciliation elsewhere so that I’m not left feeling like I’ve wasted his time. I also feel that without penance, I’m at risk of not fulfilling my part of the Sacrament. I have read many questions and answers here regarding Sacraments, most recently that of Marriage and a Destination Wedding. Many of you have great advice regarding the Church and her teachings, and most suggest that individuals ask their priest so they are sure to receive a Sacrament in the right way.

So what do I do? Is it ok to get married by the captain of a boat and have it blessed later, simply because my Pastor is willing to do so? Or am I at risk of not receiving the Sacrament properly, in the same way that causes me to seek Reconciliation elsewhere? I am so involved at my parish, I don’t want to consider changing churches, but how else does one cope with an unconventional, albeit charismatic, Pastor with his own not-so-in-line-with-the-Church ideas?

Thank you in advance for your kind thoughts and prayers!

You should marry according to the Church’s laws. This means you should marry in a Catholic marriage service, in a Catholic church, in front of a priest and two witnesses. You only need a simple ceremony but you should do it according to Church law. What do you think it says about your understanding of and commitment to marriage when you say you know what you should do but do something prohibited? IMHO it really isn’t the best way to start married life.

 

[Bergon]

There are two elements in a wedding, the legal and the sacramental. Most couples do both at the same time at church. It’s also okay (and some would argue that the church remove itself from the civil aspect because the sacrament of marriage has become so dumbed down - also, in removing itself from the civil aspect, the church eliminates its obligation to follow state-mandated laws - i.e. “same sex marriage”.) to be married civilly and come back to the church at a later date for the sacramental phase of the wedding. This intentionality actually elevates the sacrament, not diminishes.

This should only be done in those countries whose laws require everyone to marry in a civil ceremony prior to any religious one.

 

[Bergon]

Thank you all for your responses. I will take each into consideration as the days unfold. I suspect having a ceremony at church will cause derision with my family in any case, since some may not understand why they haven’t been invited. I will certainly spend much time in prayer before I’m ready to move ahead with this.

I think that your family should respect your wishes to have a simple wedding. I admire people who have simple weddings. The marriage service is, of course, important but spending thousands on other things are a lot less necesary. It often seems that the wedding is the most important day in a wedding. Hundreds of guests, a three course meal after the wedding plus an evening reception with entertainment and a buffet are unncessary extravagances. I hope you organise a simple Caholic wedding. I pray your family will understand your reasons for having a simple ceremony.

 

[Sara505Sings]

The Church wedding already has more than one element. The sacrament of marriage, which is on display, but also, behind the scenes, there is the issue of the marriage license and the legal issues that are particular to each state. So two things are going on at the same time.

 

[Bergon]

It’s my understanding that according to the Cathecism, you are required to confess at least once a year!

The requirement is to confess your sins no less frequently than once per annum if you have committed grave sins. (Grave sins are also known as mortal or serious sins.) There is no requirement to go to confession if you have only committed venial sins.

I’m not saying that anyone can or cannot go a full year without committing grave sin. I’m just pointing out that the requirement to go to confession at least once in a year is for grave sin, not venial.

 

[OraLabora]

No, actually, it isn’t.

In some countries it’s necessary. In Canada and the US the priest also has the legal authority to marry. That isn’t the case in many countries including in Europe, the couple needs to be legally married in a civil ceremony before the sacramental marriage.

But in the US and Canada there’s only one valid route, and the sacramental marriage also takes care of the legal requirements.

In our case I was fallen away from the Church when we married civilly and my wife was not baptized at that time either. After I returned, my wife was baptized into the Anglican Church and we eventually had our marriage convalidated by my parish priest after going through all the paperwork. It was easy for us as there were no previous marriages for either of us, it was just a question of rounding up our baptismal certificates.

But that was to correct an irregular situation we never should have entered into in the first place. Without grave reason, or a dispensation to marry in the other party’s church, the couple need to follow the normal routine of the jurisdiction they live in.

 

[Bergon]

I tried to see if you could do both at once - get married by a priest while at sea. Unfortunately, priests are prohibited from celebrating Catholic weddings on unconsecrated ground (e.g., a cruise ship). So that won’t work.

Where does it say that? Not all churches are consecrated. I didn’t think the building has to be consecrated. Canon law says the default place for a marriage should be the parish church of the parish in which it is celebrated. It can be celebrated in another church, oratory or chapel. This tends to be the norm. Nevertheless the Bishop can grant his permission for a wedding to take place elsewhere. It’s entirely at his discretion. I believe he could authorise a marriage on a boat.

What shouldn’t happen is a non-Catholic marriage followed by a Catholic one. Similarly there cannot be one marriage with two persons asking for and receiving the couple’s consent. So, there couldn’t be marriage on a boat with the couple making their vows to the captain and then again to a priest.

 

[Bergon]

Thank you, Janeway. I think a simple church ceremony without the Mass is of great interest to me. I’m beginning to understand that we can all do pretty much what we want, if we choose to exercise our own will rather than that of God. After all, if I seek it, I will receive forgiveness. But then I yearn for God to be pleased with me, having abided His will to begin with, and that’s when I realize how much I’ve grown.

I’m afraid that is not an appropriate attitude. We shouldn’t be going about saying I can commit any sin I want to commit because God will forgive me. God will only forgive sins if the sinner is genuinely truly sorry for committing that sin. If you’re going to have that necessary true contrition why would you commit the sin in the first place? It doesn’t augur well for us as Christians when we put our own wishes before those of God and the Church. It also calls into question your understanding of and commitment to Catholic marriage when you are determined to have it all your way just because it will be possible to get the Church to regularise your circumstances. It also causes me grave concern that a priest is advising you to do this and even encouraging you to do this.

This needs some serious thought. Are you going to do what God and the Church require or are you going to please yourself? Are you going to enter into what the Church will regard as a non-existent marriage? Have you considered any other options? You could ask your bishop for permission to have a Catholic marriage service on a boat. You could even ask for a dispensation from canonical form. As you’re both Catholics I think this latter option is not likely to go be granted.

 

[Bergon]

In some countries it’s necessary. In Canada and the US the priest also has the legal authority to marry. That isn’t the case in many countries including in Europe, the couple needs to be legally married in a civil ceremony before the sacramental marriage.

But in the US and Canada there’s only one valid route, and the sacramental marriage also takes care of the legal requirements.

In our case I was fallen away from the Church when we married civilly and my wife was not baptized at that time either. After I returned, my wife was baptized into the Anglican Church and we eventually had our marriage convalidated by my parish priest after going through all the paperwork. It was easy for us as there were no previous marriages for either of us, it was just a question of rounding up our baptismal certificates.

But that was to correct an irregular situation we never should have entered into in the first place. Without grave reason, or a dispensation to marry in the other party’s church, the couple need to follow the normal routine of the jurisdiction they live in.

It’s necessary in some countries. It isn’t relevant in this case. I think 1ke’s comments we’re right in this case.

It doesn’t apply to all Europe: civil marriage followed by a religious ceremony. In the UK Catholics get married in the Church and civilly at one ceremony.

 

[Talegi]

Thank you, Janeway. I think a simple church ceremony without the Mass is of great interest to me. I’m beginning to understand that we can all do pretty much what we want, if we choose to exercise our own will rather than that of God. After all, if I seek it, I will receive forgiveness. But then I yearn for God to be pleased with me, having abided His will to begin with, and that’s when I realize how much I’ve grown.

I apologize for the confusion this post has caused. It was meant to derisively illustrate that I have recognized the danger of just doing what we want. I forget that my readers don’t know me well yet.

God Bless you all!