Receiving the Eucharist when doubtful about state of soul

[upbeatjonm]

As you may know, it is difficult to tell for sure if we are in the state of grace. There is no light bulb which is on or off to be sure.

Many sins, while potentially grave, are sometimes difficult to know if it crossed the line into mortal sin. An example: seeing a beautiful person, and giving a second or third glance at their beauty could become lust. Or it might be normal attraction and only venial.

Question: if a person has committed a sin, and is not sure whether or not it was mortal (as in above example), should that person abstain from communion?
In other words, when in doubt, shoud we error on the side of receiving communion or not? I go to confession about 1 time a month. Don’t want to become overly scrupulous.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Our conscience is the barrometer of our soul’s state of grace. When in doubt, then go to confession and relieve all doubt.

 

[Barbkw]

Confession and particularly the spoken absolution of sin, is good for the soul. Venial or mortal .

My advice - stop checking out the same broad - twice, three times, four times.

Your mind naturally wants to “go there” and perhaps your eyes are falling somewhere between her neck and her waist .



Google search for various Church websites these words:

examination of conscience for confession

One of those websites talk about:

Necessary conditions for a sin to be mortal:

Serious Matter
Sufficient Reflection
Full Consent of the Will

 

[ThanksBeToGod11]

I think our minds tend to be like wild horses that are hitched to a wagon. We’re in the wagon trying to control our minds, which are running like crazy, and sometimes it’s just beyond our ability as humans to maintain full control. I tend to think what you’re talking about is sort of like that.

If that were me, I would offer up my thoughts to God and tell Him that I cannot control these thoughts. Imagine yourself handing those thoughts to Jesus, placing them in His hands. I would go to confession when I could, but if that were not possible, I would still receive communion at mass on Sunday since God knows I tend to be scrupulous and I would not think that my thoughts were actually a form of mortal sin. It’s not like I am dwelling on those thoughts, relishing every angle and situation that might come up. They come up and I hand them on. Even if they come up 100 times a day. I imagine Jesus there smiling at me, accepting my “trash”, and helping me stay clean. My prayers to you.

 

[Roy5]

Frankly, I’ve never liked the notion of excluding people from communion. Let them come forward and receive if they choose. If it’s an invalid communion, God will make that judgment. I believe Jesus said something about ‘judge not!’. I notice that many Protestant churches have ‘open communion’ which follows that tradition.
How does anyone but God know the complexities of the human mind, heart, and soul?

 

[ConstantineTG]

Frankly, I’ve never liked the notion of excluding people from communion. Let them come forward and receive if they choose. If it’s an invalid communion, God will make that judgment. I believe Jesus said something about ‘judge not!’. I notice that many Protestant churches have ‘open communion’ which follows that tradition.

How does anyone but God know the complexities of the human mind, heart, and soul?

Careful on the word invalid, especially here at CAF. Invalid means the priest either use the wrong words during consecration, or tried to concecrate invalid matter (non-wheat bread. orange juice), or you have a poser who’s not a priest saying Mass.

An unworthy person who receives Communion only receives unworthily, but its still valid no less.

 

[Roy5]

Obviously I used the word invalid to mean that the recipient should not have received it. I hesitate to say unworthy because that is a judgment I’m not about to make. Personally, I don’t believe, for example, that a divorced and remarried fine person is necessarily unworthy. That’s a legalism that makes me uncomfortable. I’ll let God make such decisions.
There are probably plenty of 'unworthy' persons - scam artists, habitual liars, adulterers, racial bigots, warmongers, etc. - who regularly come forward to receive communion, and the church does not bar them. Why bar people who may marry out of love, grow apart, get a divorce, and remarry without going through the expenses and uncertainty of an annulment when the church decides whether or not the first marriage had some sort of flaw? So often there was no flaw. People change. Alcoholism may develop. Mental problems come along. Etc. It can be tough on children when the church treats the marriage of their mom and dad as somehow a big mistake.

 

[upbeatjonm]

Our conscience is the barrometer of our soul’s state of grace. When in doubt, then go to confession and relieve all doubt.

Right. Understand that, but I do go to frequent confession. I am speaking particular about the “gray” areas, or sins which vary greatly in degree and are difficult to figure the gravity. When those happen, which could occur almost daily, should we error on the scrupulous side and avoid communion until the next confession?

 

[upbeatjonm]

I think our minds tend to be like wild horses that are hitched to a wagon. We’re in the wagon trying to control our minds, which are running like crazy, and sometimes it’s just beyond our ability as humans to maintain full control. I tend to think what you’re talking about is sort of like that.

If that were me, I would offer up my thoughts to God and tell Him that I cannot control these thoughts. Imagine yourself handing those thoughts to Jesus, placing them in His hands. I would go to confession when I could, but if that were not possible, I would still receive communion at mass on Sunday since God knows I tend to be scrupulous and I would not think that my thoughts were actually a form of mortal sin. It’s not like I am dwelling on those thoughts, relishing every angle and situation that might come up. They come up and I hand them on. Even if they come up 100 times a day. I imagine Jesus there smiling at me, accepting my “trash”, and helping me stay clean. My prayers to you.

Thanks, this mirrors my thoughts fairly well…

 

[ConstantineTG]

Right. Understand that, but I do go to frequent confession. I am speaking particular about the “gray” areas, or sins which vary greatly in degree and are difficult to figure the gravity. When those happen, which could occur almost daily, should we error on the scrupulous side and avoid communion until the next confession?

When in doubt, confess it. While not required, we are encouraged anyway to confess venial sins. So there’s nothing wrong with that.

 

[upbeatjonm]

When in doubt, confess it. While not required, we are encouraged anyway to confess venial sins. So there’s nothing wrong with that.

Again, I don’t think you are understanding my question. I am in agreement that it should be brought up in confession. I go monthly. My question is around what to do during the times between confessions, when gray areas creep up? Are you suggesting that when in doubt, don’t go to communion? That is really what I am struggling with, times when a person is not sure.

 

[suko]

My question is around what to do during the times between confessions, when gray areas creep up? Are you suggesting that when in doubt, don’t go to communion? That is really what I am struggling with, times when a person is not sure.

I think one should remember what St. Paul says:
27 Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will have to answer for the body and blood of the Lord.
28 A person should examine himself, and so eat the bread and drink the cup.
29 For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body, eats and drinks judgment on himself. (1 Corinthians 27-29)

If you are in doubt, don’t go. Just go to confession whenever the next opportunity arises. I know when I’m in doubt, I go right away.

However, if you find yourself committing mortal sins frequently, then I think there’s something wrong here. Now I’m not saying that you are, but I am saying if a person was, then I think that person has a serious need to talk with a good priest for counseling, as there’s probably a serious need to amend that person’s way of life.

Getting yourself a good spiritual director is good too whom you can talk to about any gray areas that you may have. I know when I get some, I like to talk with a particular priest whom I’ve grown to trust. Truly, we all need someone whom we can talk to and trust when one is in doubt. Even St. Pio had a spiritual director.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Again, I don’t think you are understanding my question. I am in agreement that it should be brought up in confession. I go monthly. My question is around what to do during the times between confessions, when gray areas creep up? Are you suggesting that when in doubt, don’t go to communion? That is really what I am struggling with, times when a person is not sure.

Of course! Sorry, I was under the assumption that you would be able to go to Confession before Mass.

 

[Rochester]

I would like to refer you to this helpful advice from the “10 Commandments of the Scupulous” by Fr. Santa, found on this link:

mission.liguori.org/newsletters/scrupulosity.htm

In particular, check out this commandment:

9. If, before you perform or omit an act, you are doubtful whether or not it is sinful for you, you shall assume as certain that it is not sinful and shall proceed to act without any dread of sin whatever.

This commandment is also supported by Saint Alphonsus. In his advice to confessors he says, “Scrupulous persons tend to fear that everything they do is sinful. The confessor should command them to act without restraint and overcome their anxiety. He should tell them that their first obligation is to conquer their scruples. They should act against their groundless fears. The confessor may command the scrupulous to conquer their anxiety and disregard it by freely doing whatever it tells them not to do. The confessor may assure the penitent the he or she need never confess such a thing.”

Peace my friend!

 

[teachccd]

Frankly, I’ve never liked the notion of excluding people from communion. Let them come forward and receive if they choose. If it’s an invalid communion, God will make that judgment. I believe Jesus said something about ‘judge not!’. I notice that many Protestant churches have ‘open communion’ which follows that tradition.

How does anyone but God know the complexities of the human mind, heart, and soul?

Well, I’m sorry to observe that the many protestant churches that have “open communion” and come forward to receive do not follow scripture. Sacred Scripture came to us out of the practices of the earliest Church. While following these traditions Saint Paul writes:

1 Corinthians 11:23-34
**23 11 For I received from the Lord what I also handed on to you, that the Lord Jesus, on the night he was handed over, took bread, ****24 ****and, after he had given thanks, broke it and said, “This is my body that is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” ****25 ****In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.” ****26 ****For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the death of the Lord until he comes. ****27 ****Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will have to answer for the body and blood of the Lord. 12 ****28 ****A person should examine himself, 13 and so eat the bread and drink the cup. ****29 ****For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body, eats and drinks judgment 14 on himself. ****30 ****That is why many among you are ill and infirm, and a considerable number are dying. ****31 ****If we discerned ourselves, we would not be under judgment; ****32 ****but since we are judged by (the) Lord, we are being disciplined so that we may not be condemned along with the world. ****33 ****Therefore, my brothers, when you come together to eat, wait for one another. ****34 ****If anyone is hungry, he should eat at home, so that your meetings may not result in judgment. The other matters I shall set in order when I come. **

One might want to discern whether or not they are following the teachings of the apostles and Scripture or their own man-made traditions.

God bless, teachccd

 

[Rochester]

Well, I’m sorry to observe that the many protestant churches that have “open communion” and come forward to receive do not follow scripture. Sacred Scripture came to us out of the practices of the earliest Church. While following these traditions Saint Paul writes:

1 Corinthians 11:23-34
**23 11 For I received from the Lord what I also handed on to you, that the Lord Jesus, on the night he was handed over, took bread, ****24 ****and, after he had given thanks, broke it and said, “This is my body that is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” ****25 ****In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.” ****26 ****For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the death of the Lord until he comes. ****27 **Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will have to answer for the body and blood of the Lord. 12 **28 **A person should examine himself, 13 and so eat the bread and drink the cup. **29 **For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body, eats and drinks judgment 14 on himself. **30 ****That is why many among you are ill and infirm, and a considerable number are dying. ****31 ****If we discerned ourselves, we would not be under judgment; ****32 ****but since we are judged by (the) Lord, we are being disciplined so that we may not be condemned along with the world. ****33 ****Therefore, my brothers, when you come together to eat, wait for one another. ****34 ****If anyone is hungry, he should eat at home, so that your meetings may not result in judgment. The other matters I shall set in order when I come. **

One might want to discern whether or not they are following the teachings of the apostles and Scripture or their own man-made traditions.

God bless, teachccd

A couple questions, or observations based upon rereading this passage.

First, there appears to be nothing said about closed communion, or open communion. Rather, Paul appears to be speaking of a private discernment.

Second, how can one judge whether one, whether Protestant or Catholic, has discerned, or not? It appears this supper is between us, the sinner, and God, but not anyone else, as far I can read into this passage.

 

[teachccd]

A couple questions, or observations based upon rereading this passage.

First, there appears to be nothing said about closed communion, or open communion. Rather, Paul appears to be speaking of a private discernment.

Second, how can one judge whether one, whether Protestant or Catholic, has discerned, or not? It appears this supper is between us, the sinner, and God, but not anyone else, as far I can read into this passage.

I was replying to post #5 in this thread. Yes, it is between the person and God. No objections there. But there are guidelines printed in the front of most misselettes that will inform one as to whether or not the are able to receive. And the Catholic Church also exhorts that only Catholics receive the Eucharist at Mass. So call it “open” or “closed”, or whatever, the Church does speak on who is able to receive the Eucharist.

In Christianity nothing that we do is private. Whatever we do affects the whole community of believers. There is no such thing as private sinning so the warning that Paul gives in this passage is to the whole Church to adhere to. It in no way expresses that we are to “judge” the soul of another but we can warn our brothers and sisters in Christ if they need to amend their ways. Paul seemed to be doing a lot of that…teachccd

 

[WilliamWalsh]

A wise priest once told a younger me that I need not pour my soul through a sieve to find if there are any mortal sins in it. Are there temptations? Yes, and there will be until the body is perhaps six hours in the coffin. We exit the state of grace when we embrace our temptations to commit grave sin willfully, and knowingly. You will not need the sieve to find the big black rock of mortal sin.You used the word scrupulous in your post. Find a confessor, and discuss the possibilty of scrupulosity with him. Obey your confessor scrupulously. God Bless You.~WW

 

[Rochester]

I was replying to post #5 in this thread. Yes, it is between the person and God. No objections there. But there are guidelines printed in the front of most misselettes that will inform one as to whether or not the are able to receive. And the Catholic Church also exhorts that only Catholics receive the Eucharist at Mass. So call it “open” or “closed”, or whatever, the Church does speak on who is able to receive the Eucharist.

In Christianity nothing that we do is private. Whatever we do affects the whole community of believers. There is no such thing as private sinning so the warning that Paul gives in this passage is to the whole Church to adhere to. It in no way expresses that we are to “judge” the soul of another but we can warn our brothers and sisters in Christ if they need to amend their ways. Paul seemed to be doing a lot of that…teachccd

Ah, I see what you mean now. Thanks! God bless.

 

[upbeatjonm]

A wise priest once told a younger me that I need not pour my soul through a sieve to find if there are any mortal sins in it. Are there temptations? Yes, and there will be until the body is perhaps six hours in the coffin. We exit the state of grace when we embrace our temptations to commit grave sin willfully, and knowingly. You will not need the sieve to find the big black rock of mortal sin.You used the word scrupulous in your post. Find a confessor, and discuss the possibilty of scrupulosity with him. Obey your confessor scrupulously. God Bless You.~WW

Thanks, I think this is good advice.