Receiving the Sacrament of Communion

[DCartes]

Please bear with me. I am new here so let me introduce myself.

I consider myself a nominal Catholic. Baptized a Southern Baptist, Confirmed Lutheran and now finding Catholicism a better comfort for my family. Why not full Catholic? I believe in one baptism. No one can take away from me what the Triune God gave me. Also my wife was baptized in the Crusader Church and feels the same way. I’m divorced and see no need for annulment. Again, I have confessed, have explained to my family as sign of contrition and restoring my family’s respect has been my penance.

We have had our children baptized in the Catholic Church, sons are confirmed and oldest daughter has been granted first communion. Our kids attended Catholic School in the Philippines and instructed in Catholic Catechism for Filipinos. We now live in the US and have not attended Mass in over a year. I have struggled with what I call the small Catechism but for the most accept. Many things in the greater Catechism I struggle with more. But leave that for later. That’s me and mine.

I’ve read the recent discussions about drive by Mass, etc., and have some observations as questions. They certainly may come from a blending of understanding of Catholic and Lutheran Mass teachings. Please correct and educate me.

1. The topic of taking and receiving the Eucharist, I believe we don’t take the Eucharist any more than we can take any Sacrament. But I also don’t believe we receive the Sacrament from the priest. The Mass makes it clear to me that we receive the body and blood from God. The priest is God’s chosen one and God acts threw him.
2. I’m retired Navy. Very few ships have priests. Lay sailors are trained to officiate the essentials of the Mass (as proscribed by a Bishop I believe) in the name of the Church and the Eucharist is blessed and prepared and the laymen are given instructions. Laymen also give the prayers as instructed. God and if you will the priest and Church are there with the Holy Spirit. This is particularly true on my submarines. Except for my two submarines, Catholic chaplains stop by from time to time.
3. Thus why can’t Catholics on land do the same. If they are confirmed and the Eucharist and the laymen or women receive the blessing and instruction, why cannot a lay person pick up the blessed Eucharist and bring it home. If 2 or 3 or more confitmed are present, practice what parts of the mass are approved by the Bishop. I would even allow parishioners to bring homemade bread and even wine to the parish church to be blessed. Mass by virtue of the communion of saints is important (even though I’m lapsed).

Of course this is not really meant as questions. These are really a matter of increasing my Catholicism understanding.

In the end, I believe the Bishop, by virtue of procession, has the grace to tell me what the right thing to do is.

Thank you.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Lay sailors are trained to officiate the essentials of the Mass (as proscribed by a Bishop I believe) in the name of the Church

Huh? I somehow think there is a major misunderstanding here.

Laymen do NOT, EVER, officiate “the essentials of the Mass”. Not in the Navy, nowhere. (My father was in the Navy and my mother worked for the Navy Department.)

Laymen MAY officiate at a Catholic communion service. This is NOT a Mass. The layman does NOT perform “the essentials of the Mass” as part of the communion service. In other words, he doesn’t consecrate the Eucharist, which is the essential part of the Mass. That can only be done by a priest. The layman doing a communion service does some readings and prayers and then the pre-consecrated Eucharist, that was consecrated by a priest prior to the communion service, is distributed. This is done frequently in cases where a priest is unavailable - for example, I have seen it done in parishes where there is one priest and he suddenly has to take a medical leave, often on an emergency basis, and there is no other priest available to fill in. We also had this at my Catholic high school because we did not have a priest there every day or even most days, but they would have a communion service a couple days a week, officiated by a sister or other lay minister.

As for a lay person “picking up the blessed Eucharist and bringing it home” we do NOT generally bring the Eucharist to our homes. There has been a strong restriction on this for centuries because hundreds of years ago, people would be bringing the Eucharist home to worship it rather than consuming it as we’re supposed to do, and it just creates too much risk of abusing the Eucharist.

Furthermore, people don’t just get to bring any old bread and wine to church to be “blessed”. It generally has to be a certain kind with a certain composition approved by the Church, not just grab a loaf of Wonder Bread and whatever wine you have in the house. Again this is to prevent abuses of the sacrament (you don’t want people using Welch’s grape juice spiked with a little moonshine, or having half a loaf of Jesus’ body going moldy and some person throwing it out.) And as I said before, lay people don’t “Practice parts of the Mass” in their homes.

Finally, if this has to do with the current coronavirus situation, our Archbishop has specifically directed that the priests NOT authorize “communion services” in lieu of Mass. I suspect other bishops may have directed the same.

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

@Tis_Bearself answered your questions. I’d like to comment on some other things you said.

I consider myself a nominal Catholic. Baptized a Southern Baptist, Confirmed Lutheran and now finding Catholicism a better comfort for my family. Why not full Catholic? I believe in one baptism. No one can take away from me what the Triune God gave me. Also my wife was baptized in the Crusader Church and feels the same way.

Catholics believe in one baptism. Someone who is validly baptized is not somehow re-baptized on becoming Catholic.

I’m divorced and see no need for annulment. Again, I have confessed, have explained to my family as sign of contrition and restoring my family’s respect has been my penance.

That’s more of an issue. Jesus was pretty clear about divorce and remarriage. Have you talked with your pastor about what possibilities are open to you?

We have had our children baptized in the Catholic Church…We now live in the US and have not attended Mass in over a year.

I don’t know how old your children are, but when you had them baptized you took on the responsibility of raising them Catholic. Part of being Catholic is participating in the Mass.

I hope you will consider your relationship with the Church.

 

[DCartes]

Thanks for getting back to me. As for the one baptism the priest in Iba Zambales explained it as thus. It was presented as everything that was protestant was not recognized by him.

LThe annulment thing was more problematic. For him to marry us we needed to do this all before. This was 12 years ago. We ended up being married by a Methodist pastor. Not really what we wanted. If other things are available in the US I’m open to learning about them.

While very strict in some ways, the priests were very accommodating otherwise. Nothing that happened deterred us. I guess that was my greater point.

But I am definitely open.

What can we discuss? I think about going to mass many times and cannot get out comfort zone and go with my kids.

As far as allowing families and small groups to practice similar to what I experienced on ship. Is it wrong? I was a Lutheran at the time but the Catholics believed more like me than other protestants.

Please let me know what you think.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

As far as allowing families and small groups to practice similar to what I experienced on ship. Is it wrong? I was a Lutheran at the time but the Catholics believed more like me than other protestants.

Again, I think either you may have a misunderstanding as to what you saw happening on ship, or else some people were definitely “doing it wrong” if a lay person actually tried to consecrate bread and wine into Christ’s body and blood. I cannot imagine any Catholic lay person actually trying to do that though. It’s considered very, very, VERY wrong. Many would say, blasphemous. It’s the type of thing one reports to the bishop and people get told publicly by the bishop to stop it at once.

Catholic lay people do not do things that are reserved to the priest. Consecrating the Eucharist is reserved to the priest and only the priest.

And needless to say, if a lay person did somehow try to consecrate the Eucharist, it wouldn’t have worked. It would not be Jesus’ body and blood. Never, ever.

 

[DCartes]

Lay people Did Not consecrate the body and blood that was my point actually. They received consecrated from the Chaplain. And nothing of the Mass reserved to a priest was done either. I hope that makes my point clearer.

 

[DCartes]

I said nothing about the Navy guys doing the Mass. I specifically said they were instructed on what they were allowed to do and what they weren’t.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

The problem is, you keep saying “they are doing the Mass”.

They are NOT doing “the Mass”. They sound like they are doing a Communion service.

This is a really important distinction. “Doing the Mass” would mean they are trying to do a consecration.

 

[DCartes]

Yeah that was my mistake. Poorly worded. I guess what I’m saying is isn’t there a way to accommodate both a response to COVID-19 and not removing things many feel as part and parcel to their religious vocation. Why does it need to be either- or?

And thank all of you for your comments.

 

[DCartes]

By more liberal I mean they were very welcoming and never brought up are not being Catholic as a requirement for our kids to participate.

 

[DCartes]

Tis_Bearself, I have seen otherwise. When I lived in Vermont my neighbor was a homebound Catholic. Not always but at times a lay person did come to her house. I’m not all knowing, particularly about Catholicism, so I googled it.

Extraordinary minister of Holy Communion - Wikipedia

This is what I know. But I don’t know the justification.

As far as the home made bread, if unleavened, was used in my Lutheran church during Easter season. I found it interesting. If it is not allowed in the Catholic Church, then I apologize for suggesting it. Also, I’m still confused about the wine. It seems that is not allowed either.

It’s beginning to sound like I don’t like Catholicism. But, far from it. The teachings in my kid’s confirmation on the Lords Prayer, the Creeds, the Mass and prayers are closer to what I believe than what the ELCA devolved to. To me, my confusion can come down to form over function and my ignorance. I mentioned the larger Catechism earlier and said I had troubles for later. But it seems a good time. Of the 1500 pages or so I’m all in on most. I struggle with very little in terms of length but major in terms of faith. The section on Moral law, justification, faith, grace and merit. I eventually found ELCA teaching on these things trivial. I am half way between at Lutheran and Catholic at present. I think these 5 are very important but too much like law and not call and vocation. I need to learn more. I also have a hard time with the Catholic Church being The Church. I actually I look up to and admire the last three Popes as exemplary Bishops of Bishops. I really like the teachings on Mary, the Angels and Saints. I have so much to learn and have never taught my kids to ignore anything. As I said my Journey started in the Navy, later when I came down with MS I found a St. Jude prayer card in a bus. It was phenomenal how talking to Saint Jude I felt comforted and how quickly my MS relapses slowed. Later as a visiting professor at Villanova I went to the campus church. The message every Sunday moved me. I was offered communion by the priest who knew I wasn’t Catholic but I didn’t take it. Later the last stumbling blocks was praying with Saints fully explained the way I needed. I still think talking to saints and asking for intercession isn’t unnecessary for salvation but as it was explained to me when we die we do not cease being Christian or a member of the Body of Christ. The Catholic I talked to made it simple. He said to me 'have you ever asked your preacher to pray for a sick family member? Why does it matter if they’ve gone to heaven" And I remember the Baptist and Lutherans who teach against it will go back to a grave time after time talking to someone who had mearly traded their Earthly body for their glorified body. That was the final thing that let me know everything I had been taught about Catechism was wrong. Now I’m struggling with the last few yards. I have a lot to learn and more to blindly accept. Im finding I want to be a mystic but my training as a engineering scientist keeps getting in the way. Sorry that was long winded. Please I appreciate all these comments.

 

[Horton]

Thanks for getting back to me. As for the one baptism the priest in Iba Zambales explained it as thus. It was presented as everything that was protestant was not recognized by him.

LThe annulment thing was more problematic. For him to marry us we needed to do this all before. This was 12 years ago. We ended up being married by a Methodist pastor. Not really what we wanted. If other things are available in the US I’m open to learning about them.

I believe you said you are back in the US. If so, you need to make an appointment to see your priest as soon as possible. The priest in Iba Zambales was wrong. The Catholic Church recognizes valid baptisms from protestant churches. You still need an annulment even if you are currently married. I question whether you were formally received formally into the Catholic Church.

As far as you questions on receiving the Eucharist, the issue isn’t that receiving is the problem, it’s the gathering of the people that is problematic.