Receivng Communion on your Hand

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Fine if you don’t care what I say. But do you not care what a Bishop in full communion with Rome says ? or you gonna give it this ?

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I think that the problem we have here is that we are discussing communion on the hand or the tongue as theology. In this, the entire thread is wrong. This is not a theological issue. Theology has to do with the nature of God and with those dogmas and doctrines that explain and organize for us the nature of God using reason. That is theology. Anything outside that falls into a different academic discipline.

Communion in the hand falls under the area of liturgical disciplines. Liturgical disciplines are not theological points, for several reasons. First, they are not dogmas. They can be changed by the authority of the Church at any time and without any explanation. Second, they are not sacred Tradition. They are traditions with a lower case T. Again, traditions can be changed or even dropped by the competent authority without an explanation. Third, they are not moral laws. They do not bind us under pain of sin. What binds us is the moral law. In this case, if we treat the Eucharist irreverently, either on the tongue or on the hand, the moral law binds us and convicts us. On the other hand, if we treat the Eucharist with reverence and approach it in a state of grace, the moral law protects us from condemnation, both divine and human.

As a liturgical discipline, the Holy See has granted an indult to the local bishops and to the conferences of bishops to use the indult, which allows communion in the hand. It is arrogant on the part of any of us to presume that we know better than the Holy See and claim that the indult was a mistake or that the indult causes people to sin.

It is arrogant for several reasons. First, we do not have the authority to criticize the Holy See. When you criticize someone, it means that you know something that they do not know. This begs the question, by what power do you or I come to know what the Holy See does not know?

Second, it is arrogant because you and I are not the givers of the law. If one is not the giver of the law, then one is either the judge of the law and the law giver or the servant of the law. But we cannot be both obedient to the law and at the same time be judges of the law. Either we accept that the indult was given and choose which way to receive the Eucharist is best for us or we become the judges of the law and the law giver and proclaim to the world that the law is wrong. If the law is wrong, the law giver must be wrong, for the law does not promulgate itself. The indult is not self-promulgating. It was promulgated by the Holy See.

Third, we must recognize the truth about history. The indult was granted because communion in the hand was being practiced in some dioceses. If memory serves me right, it was in the Dutch dioceses where it first appeared. But we have to look at why the Church chose to created the indult rather than condemn the Dutch dioceses. The Church decided to create the indult to rescue those dioceses from the pain of the sin of disobedience. They were not being saved from some heresy. They were being protected from the sin of disobedience to the rubrics.

The Church is a merciful mother. As a merciful mother, she protects her children from sin, whenever her power and authority allows her to do so. Why does she do it? Because it is her mission to protect her children from sin. She protects her children from sin in one of two ways.
  1. She admonished and guides her children away from sin and toward virtue and holiness. Even if she has to discipline them, as was the case with the SSPX and other groups.
  2. She also protects her children from sin by using her authority to bind or unbind those rules that are within her power to do so. By unbinding, in the case, there is no sin of disobedience to the rubrics. If there is no sin of disobedience, then the Church has saved her children from themselves.
When we look at the indult being used, we must thank God that he has given us a Church who is a loving mother who protects us from sin. We must thank God for giving the Church such awesome power such as the power to change disciplines in order to keep her children in communion with her and with her master. This is an exercise in tremendous power and an exercise in tremendous love. That’s how we should look at the indult, as the Church exercising her power and her love for her children who are not always perfect.

As long as the indult is in place, we must accept it, because it speaks to us of the motherhood of the Church and her protection of her children.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
I’m intrigued by your comment that you (we) “work around it” – work around what? Church teaching? The authority of the Bishop? I’m not clear what you mean.

Also, just because a presider (whether priest or bishop) does not correct something an individual does in a given liturgy should not be construed as blanket approval. There’s more important things to worry about in liturgy than whether or not each and every person is following each and every rubric (and I in no way am minimizing the importance of rubrics by that comment).
Wait a minute now, I see what you mean and where you are going with this. I saw it when you replied asking about Ky.

See, this could quickly turn into a discussion of Liturgical abuses and double standards. We could start splitting hairs and discuss holding hands during the Lord’s Prayer, and couples kissing during the sign of peace, and on and on.

I’m not going to defend my reverence and the reverence of others. If you want to pooh pooh the Bishops thoughts and attempt to raise an awareness of the Real Presence fine. Not saying you did, but if you want to discuss the Bishops words I will. But don’t ignore the topic and use one of my posts as a random platform for an agenda or some sort of psychic attack. I’m on to that game friend.

Now, did you watch the video ?
 
There is a rumor about Rome and communion on the hand. There is a misunderstanding here. Our community is international and our general house is in Rome. The rumor is about communion in Vatican City, not the Archdiocese of Rome. In the Archdiocese of Rome, communion is on the hand. Until it goes through the deans, the vicars and the Bishop of Rome, it will remain that way. Canon law clearly says that the bishop must consult his council on certain things and this is one of them. The bishop is the ultimate liturgical authority in his diocese, but he can only act after consulting with the diocesan council.

Can. 495 §1. In each diocese a presbyteral council is to be established, that is, a group of priests which, representing the presbyterium, is to be like a senate of the bishop and which assists the bishop in the governance of the diocese according to the norm of law to promote as much as possible the pastoral good of the portion of the people of God entrusted to him.

The Bishop of Rome, who also happens to be the Pontiff, has to consult with the presbyteral council before making such a change. However, this does not mean that he has to do what the council says. The voice of the council is purely advisory. In the case of the Archdiocese of Rome, the diocese is run by an administrator. It is very unlikely that the Holy Father will ride over the diocesan administrator, whomever he may be or whatever his rank. This is not usually done, since the administrator usually knows the diocese better than the pope does.

I hope this clarifies this rumor. The Vatican is not part of the Archdiocese of Rome, because it’s not even in the same country. Diocesan boundaries usually do not cut across national boundaries.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Wait a minute now, I see what you mean and where you are going with this. I saw it when you replied asking about Ky.

See, this could quickly turn into a discussion of Liturgical abuses and double standards. We could start splitting hairs and discuss holding hands during the Lord’s Prayer, and couples kissing during the sign of peace, and on and on.

I’m not going to defend my reverence and the reverence of others. If you want to pooh pooh the Bishops thoughts and attempt to raise an awareness of the Real Presence fine. Not saying you did, but if you want to discuss the Bishops words I will. But don’t ignore the topic and use one of my posts as a random platform for an agenda or some sort of psychic attack. I’m on to that game friend.

Now, did you watch the video ?
Sorry…didn’t mean to offend, I was sincerely curious and intrigued by your statement. I would like to understand what you mean, but if you don’t want to share/clarify that’s fine.

I am not dismissing or disregarding any Bishop’s thoughts, but I do think it’s a legitimate question to ask why you’re raising something from a Bishop in Kazakhstan (spelling?) but you aren’t sharing what your own Bishop teaches. As I understand it, we have an obligation to our own Bishop that is a greater priority than to another Bishop, all of course in union with the Pope. I follow my Bishop, you follow yours, etc. At least that’s the way I understand the Church. By doing so we are all in union with the Church under the leadership of the Pope. I don’t follow a Bishop from some other diocese (simply because I’m not in that diocese).

I am not intentionally promoting any agenda or “psychic attack” (I don’t know what that means). I was sincerely interested and curious.

Sorry if I gave offense.
 
As long as the indult is in place, we must accept it, because it speaks to us of the motherhood of the Church and her protection of her children.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
I agree we must accept that there is an indult in place.

Since you quoted me, did you watch the video ? If so, what are your thoughts ?

And also, how does the indult allowing CITH enrich our Belief and Reverence for the Real Presence ? Are there any books, video interviews, audio interviews, or more importantly, Church documents that would present us with an understanding of why CITH is of Spiritual benefit ? Certainly, if something is to be allowed, it comes after much consideration and the reasons for the decision documented.

If you know of any such info, I’d be glad to read it and consider it. Seriously. I’ve searched and can’t find such info.
 
My husband disagrees with me that I receive the Body of Christ on my hand while he says he is not worthy of holding Him and sticks out his tongue.
I am an extraordinary minister and better than 90 percent of the parishioners get it on their hand. I was not told by our pastor (nor does our parish enforce) that we should receive our Lord on our tongues only.
Is there a church teaching on this? When I was growing up, everyone got it on their tongues and everyone knelt in front of and around the altar (this was in the Philippines in the 60s and maybe 70s).
Any thoughts?
When you receive it on your palm, make sure your palm is directly and close to your heart, bow before you receive it, and when you place it in on your tongue, thank Jesus and meditate in peace. That’s my advice:)
Peace be with you!🙂
 
I agree we must accept that there is an indult in place.

Since you quoted me, did you watch the video ? If so, what are your thoughts ?

And also, how does the indult allowing CITH enrich our Belief and Reverence for the Real Presence ? Are there any books, video interviews, audio interviews, or more importantly, Church documents that would present us with an understanding of why CITH is of Spiritual benefit ? Certainly, if something is to be allowed, it comes after much consideration and the reasons for the decision documented.

If you know of any such info, I’d be glad to read it and consider it. Seriously. I’ve search and can’t find such info.
I don’t understand why we need to defend CITH. The Church approves it. It’s been a continuous practice in the Catholic Church from the beginning (unlike COTT). Why is there a perceived need to defend its spiritual benefit? Given that, if anyone wants to argue about preferred modes of receiving, aren’t practices like COTT and intinction, which arose later, the ones that some might seek justification for?

This question is to anyone.
 
Sorry…didn’t mean to offend, I was sincerely curious and intrigued by your statement. I would like to understand what you mean, but if you don’t want to share/clarify that’s fine.

I am not dismissing or disregarding any Bishop’s thoughts, but I do think it’s a legitimate question to ask why you’re raising something from a Bishop in Kazakhstan (spelling?) but you aren’t sharing what your own Bishop teaches. As I understand it, we have an obligation to our own Bishop that is a greater priority than to another Bishop, all of course in union with the Pope. I follow my Bishop, you follow yours, etc. At least that’s the way I understand the Church. By doing so we are all in union with the Church under the leadership of the Pope. I don’t follow a Bishop from some other diocese (simply because I’m not in that diocese).

I am not intentionally promoting any agenda or “psychic attack” (I don’t know what that means). I was sincerely interested and curious.

Sorry if I gave offense.
Actually, canon law is very clear on this. The laity and the secular clergy are bound to obey and to the authority of the bishop of their diocese. They are not bound to any other bishop, nor can any other bishop legislate to those who are not in his diocese. Even the auxiliary bishop in your diocese has no authority over you, unless he is given that authority by the bishop of the diocese. The only Catholics who are not bound to any bishop are religious men in vows. We are bound to our superiors, regardless of whose diocese we are in. However, religious communities do respect the local bishop in those matters that concern the people of his diocese, because they are HIS people, not the people of the religious community.

That being said, you can admire what another bishop does and say. There is nothing wrong with that. But what another bishop makes law for his diocese remains in his diocese and it is wrong for you to try to bring it over to your diocese. I do not mean wrong in a moral sense. I mean wrong as in it can give the impression that you are trying to teach your bishop how to run your diocese. That’s a big no no in any organization. Ask anyone who has been in the miliatary. If you try to tell one commander how to command because another commander does it that way, you’ll be slammed. The same can happen to you in the Church. If you try to tell Bishop X to do as Bishop Y, you may be setting yourself up for an episcopal slam and even a indictment. I wouldn’t go there with any bishop. They do have a lot of power over the laity and over the souls of the laity.

When dealing with bishops one must alwasy be gentle, humble, respectful and as quiet as church mice, and ask for permission to speak.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
There is a rumor about Rome and communion on the hand. There is a misunderstanding here. Our community is international and our general house is in Rome. The rumor is about communion in Vatican City, not the Archdiocese of Rome. In the Archdiocese of Rome, communion is on the hand. Until it goes through the deans, the vicars and the Bishop of Rome, it will remain that way. Canon law clearly says that the bishop must consult his council on certain things and this is one of them. The bishop is the ultimate liturgical authority in his diocese, but he can only act after consulting with the diocesan council.

Can. 495 §1. In each diocese a presbyteral council is to be established, that is, a group of priests which, representing the presbyterium, is to be like a senate of the bishop and which assists the bishop in the governance of the diocese according to the norm of law to promote as much as possible the pastoral good of the portion of the people of God entrusted to him.

The Bishop of Rome, who also happens to be the Pontiff, has to consult with the presbyteral council before making such a change. However, this does not mean that he has to do what the council says. The voice of the council is purely advisory. In the case of the Archdiocese of Rome, the diocese is run by an administrator. It is very unlikely that the Holy Father will ride over the diocesan administrator, whomever he may be or whatever his rank. This is not usually done, since the administrator usually knows the diocese better than the pope does.

I hope this clarifies this rumor. The Vatican is not part of the Archdiocese of Rome, because it’s not even in the same country. Diocesan boundaries usually do not cut across national boundaries.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
Well, if this mess is to be cleaned up, it sure does need to start in Rome 👍

And it is. I love Papa B more than anyone in this world :extrahappy:
 
Actually, canon law is very clear on this. The laity and the secular clergy are bound to obey and to the authority of the bishop of their diocese. They are not bound to any other bishop, nor can any other bishop legislate to those who are not in his diocese. Even the auxiliary bishop in your diocese has no authority over you, unless he is given that authority by the bishop of the diocese. The only Catholics who are not bound to any bishop are religious men in vows. We are bound to our superiors, regardless of whose diocese we are in. However, religious communities do respect the local bishop in those matters that concern the people of his diocese, because they are HIS people, not the people of the religious community.

That being said, you can admire what another bishop does and say. There is nothing wrong with that. But what another bishop makes law for his diocese remains in his diocese and it is wrong for you to try to bring it over to your diocese. I do not mean wrong in a moral sense. I mean wrong as in it can give the impression that you are trying to teach your bishop how to run your diocese. That’s a big no no in any organization. Ask anyone who has been in the miliatary. If you try to tell one commander how to command because another commander does it that way, you’ll be slammed. The same can happen to you in the Church. If you try to tell Bishop X to do as Bishop Y, you may be setting yourself up for an episcopal slam and even a indictment. I wouldn’t go there with any bishop. They do have a lot of power over the laity and over the souls of the laity.

When dealing with bishops one must alwasy be gentle, humble, respectful and as quiet as church mice, and ask for permission to speak.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
Thanks. I agree. You express what I believe better than I can.
 
Well, if this mess is to be cleaned up, it sure does need to start in Rome 👍

And it is. I love Papa B more than anyone in this world :extrahappy:
What I’m trying to say is that there are two Romes here. The Vatican is one thing and the Archdiocese of Rome is another. There is no proposal on the table to abolish communion in the hand in the Archdiocese, only in the Vatican. The issue has not even been discussed in the diocesan presbyteral council. That is the first step that has to happen according to canon law. I don’t hold my breadth for this happening in the Archdiocese any time soon. It may certainly happen in the Vatican. In the Vatican, the pope does not have to consult a council, because’ he’s not the Bishop of Vatican City. His relationship with Vatican City is monarchial one. It’s all very strange how they set this up.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
I receive the Lord in the proper manner nearly every morning-why would I need a video to show me how to do it?
Why ask why?

Is your church hardwired for internet access or are parishioners required to use their own wireless devices?

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.
 
Sorry…didn’t mean to offend, I was sincerely curious and intrigued by your statement. I would like to understand what you mean, but if you don’t want to share/clarify that’s fine.

I am not dismissing or disregarding any Bishop’s thoughts, but I do think it’s a legitimate question to ask why you’re raising something from a Bishop in Kazakhstan (spelling?) but you aren’t sharing what your own Bishop teaches. As I understand it, we have an obligation to our own Bishop that is a greater priority than to another Bishop, all of course in union with the Pope. I follow my Bishop, you follow yours, etc. At least that’s the way I understand the Church. By doing so we are all in union with the Church under the leadership of the Pope. I don’t follow a Bishop from some other diocese (simply because I’m not in that diocese).

I am not intentionally promoting any agenda or “psychic attack” (I don’t know what that means). I was sincerely interested and curious.

Sorry if I gave offense.
Sorry if I was wrong. Our Archbishop is a good one. He assured the TLM flock at the local diocesan parish that offers it, that he will do everything possible to make sure the TLM continues when the priest, who is in his 90’s, will retire.

Hey, he was handpicked by H.H. to replace our retiring Archbishop. 🙂 'nuff said.

My point in posting it is because little by little, the reform of the reform is gaining momentum. Do you realize that some diocesan priests are giving homilies now, from the heart, that they would not have felt comfortable giving before H.H. BXVI became Pope ?

Liturgical abuses, lukewarm Catholicism, dissidence, religious liberty, etc are hot topics these days. At least around my diocese. I sense the liberals have had their day. I’ve sat on the fence for a couple of years, but I’ve jumped off to the diocesan side of it. I truly believe that our churchmen, or at least enough of them, want to return to orthodoxy and reclaim traditional Roman Catholic values and beliefs.

That priest in his 90’s said one Sunday, “The devil has had his day”. I believe it. He lost the fight. I’m seeing good things. The more I search the blogs and Catholic news services, the more good news I find. That video interview is one of them, and in it he gives an informed and almost irrefutable defense of COTT. The isn’t a single word or statement in it contrary to Doctrine. It’s a Faith building plea for a return to due reverence.

Dominus Est 🙂
 
What I’m trying to say is that there are two Romes here. The Vatican is one thing and the Archdiocese of Rome is another. There is no proposal on the table to abolish communion in the hand in the Archdiocese, only in the Vatican. The issue has not even been discussed in the diocesan presbyteral council. That is the first step that has to happen according to canon law. I don’t hold my breadth for this happening in the Archdiocese any time soon. It may certainly happen in the Vatican. In the Vatican, the pope does not have to consult a council, because’ he’s not the Bishop of Vatican City. His relationship with Vatican City is monarchial one. It’s all very strange how they set this up.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
Fair enough. I agree, it has to start in the Vatican.
 
I truly believe that our churchmen, or at least enough of them, want to return to orthodoxy and reclaim traditional Roman Catholic values and beliefs.
Thanks.

Maybe this is where we have a different perspective. I don’t consider the Church to have ever left orthodoxy.
 
Fair enough. I agree, it has to start in the Vatican.
Since there are so many priests and bishops who visit the Vatican from around the world, usually with pilgrimages from their dioceses, it will be interesting to see if the rule will apply only to masses celebrated by the Pontiff or to all masses celebrated, even by visiting priests and bishops.

Usually, the custom has been that those priests and bishops who go to the Vatican on a pilgrimage with their flock celebrate the liturgy as they do in their homeland.

Of couse, even if the rule for communion in the hand is abolished in the Vatican, it will only apply to Latin rite masses. The Eastern rite masses will continue to do whatever they usually do. The Vatican is not about to impose its Latin rules on the East. The Vatican is very protective of the Eastern rites and the Eastern Churches. They are so few, that they need to be protected and their traditions safeguarded or they can become extinct. The Church does not want that to happen. They are an essential part of the Church.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
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