Recent trend in this forum that I'm seeing...is it just me?

[gurneyhalleck1]

For days, heck, weeks now I have been noticing people posting the most bizarre parish-level weird incidents that they can find. Whether it’s some obscure weird Canadian Anglican priest giving a dog communion or a “slinky service” at a Lutheran parish, it seems like many Catholics are trying to cite certain bizarre antics at a micro level and trying to claim, “see! see! this is what happens in the non-Catholic world! One more reason to join the Church!”

The problem with this is that Catholic parishes have bizarre priests who do weird things as well! Yet these don’t get discussed here.

About four years ago my wife and I went to the coast (I live in California). We went to Mass at a “Catholic” church in the Monterrey diocese. I won’t say the town to avoid scandalizing the people there. Suffice it to say the priest wore a rainbow robe, clapped his hands like a baptist while saying the Creed no less! He had Depok Chopra posters at the entrance to the church building, meditation seminar brochures, tantric yoga info, you name it. He gave the most bizarre sermon you’ve ever heard. It was total nonense. When they exchanged the sign of peace, he had everyone walk in a zig zag pattern around the church in this strange formation. The people were dressed like hippies. When communion came he handed out the Host but when kids or people not wanting the Eucharist approached, he took them literally UNDER HIS ROBE and wiggled around back and forth like they were salt and he the shaker. He made this crazy face while he shook them around. The entire Mass was something out of an Outer Limits episode.

But when we left, my wife and I knew full well that this wasn’t the fault of the Catholic Church, all Catholics weren’t weird and outlandish like this, and that there are nuts in every batch.

Why is the conclusion always drawn in here by so many folks that the zany and carnival-like actions by rogue weirdos is somehow a symptom of the entire institution? There are so many pro-women priest priests in the Catholic seminaries. There are so many pro-choice priests as well. I know some! There are priests who are gay and partnered, guys like Hans Kung who basically is the Catholic equivalent to Shelby Spong in some ways, a total rogue, and liberal Catholics in the university system all over. Look at what happened at Georgetown with Obama and then Notre Dame turning a blind eye to the pro-life agenda of Rome. My own pastor here in the Catholic parish of my town told a friend of mine that the catechism isn’t worth reading except to bore oneself to sleep----ignore it! that was his advice. Another priest told us that NFP is a joke, don’t worry about it. We had a gay pastor leave his parish to be with his lover and another take a leave of absence to work things out with his boyfriend.

Do these weird folks represent the entire population and institutions of Catholicism or are they just kooks that have their own misconceptions about Christianity and are exceptions to the rule?

Examples of weird Anglicans, Lutherans, and other non-Catholic Christians should not sway anyone about leaving, staying, or joining a church anymore than the freak show I went to at the coast should convince or sway someone to leave? I myself have been very guilty of posting crazy stories about Episcopalians and fringe crazies in that body with the intent to show how crazy the whole bag is. I read these stories lately and realize that my intentions and actions were silly. I hope other folks will come to the same realization.

 

[John_Paul_Jones]

All I want to know is do you have any bizarre parish-level weird incidents about Tim Lincecumism to tell?

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

None to report. It’s not an infallible religion since he didn’t get to pitch in the All Star Game and will not be a Cy Young winner this year (Ubaldo should end up with it)…

All I want to know is do you have any bizarre parish-level weird incidents about Tim Lincecumism to tell?

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Any reaction to the first post though?

All I want to know is do you have any bizarre parish-level weird incidents about Tim Lincecumism to tell?

 

[OneAugustKnight]

The weird things that happen in the Catholic Church are discussed, just not in the Non-Catholic Forum. They discuss them in the Liturgy and Sacraments forum, the Traditional Forum, and sometimes in the Catholic News forum. I thought it was kind of different to see that other religions are having problems with weird stuff creeping in, though not surprising.

 

[Nine_Two]

I do mean this with the utmost kindness, and ask for both correction and forgiveness if I am wrong in this, but wasn’t it not that long ago that you were posting about pagan services in the TEC, as evidence of the downfall of Anglicanism?

While I don’t say this to excuse the multitude of posts on the topic, certainly you must understand the mindset behind it?

You are of course right that these incidents aren’t limited to any one Church, and don’t prove the church correct or incorrect, however the reaction of authorities to such things should be a concern to parishioners.

 

[nickybr38]

For days, heck, weeks now I have been noticing people posting the most bizarre parish-level weird incidents that they can find. Whether it’s some obscure weird Canadian Anglican priest giving a dog communion or a “slinky service” at a Lutheran parish, it seems like many Catholics are trying to cite certain bizarre antics at a micro level and trying to claim, “see! see! this is what happens in the non-Catholic world! One more reason to join the Church!”

The problem with this is that Catholic parishes have bizarre priests who do weird things as well! Yet these don’t get discussed here.

About four years ago my wife and I went to the coast (I live in California). We went to Mass at a “Catholic” church in the Monterrey diocese. I won’t say the town to avoid scandalizing the people there. Suffice it to say the priest wore a rainbow robe, clapped his hands like a baptist while saying the Creed no less! He had Depok Chopra posters at the entrance to the church building, meditation seminar brochures, tantric yoga info, you name it. He gave the most bizarre sermon you’ve ever heard. It was total nonense. When they exchanged the sign of peace, he had everyone walk in a zig zag pattern around the church in this strange formation. The people were dressed like hippies. When communion came he handed out the Host but when kids or people not wanting the Eucharist approached, he took them literally UNDER HIS ROBE and wiggled around back and forth like they were salt and he the shaker. He made this crazy face while he shook them around. The entire Mass was something out of an Outer Limits episode.

But when we left, my wife and I knew full well that this wasn’t the fault of the Catholic Church, all Catholics weren’t weird and outlandish like this, and that there are nuts in every batch.

Why is the conclusion always drawn in here by so many folks that the zany and carnival-like actions by rogue weirdos is somehow a symptom of the entire institution? There are so many pro-women priest priests in the Catholic seminaries. There are so many pro-choice priests as well. I know some! There are priests who are gay and partnered, guys like Hans Kung who basically is the Catholic equivalent to Shelby Spong in some ways, a total rogue, and liberal Catholics in the university system all over. Look at what happened at Georgetown with Obama and then Notre Dame turning a blind eye to the pro-life agenda of Rome. My own pastor here in the Catholic parish of my town told a friend of mine that the catechism isn’t worth reading except to bore oneself to sleep----ignore it! that was his advice. Another priest told us that NFP is a joke, don’t worry about it. We had a gay pastor leave his parish to be with his lover and another take a leave of absence to work things out with his boyfriend.

Do these weird folks represent the entire population and institutions of Catholicism or are they just kooks that have their own misconceptions about Christianity and are exceptions to the rule?

Examples of weird Anglicans, Lutherans, and other non-Catholic Christians should not sway anyone about leaving, staying, or joining a church anymore than the freak show I went to at the coast should convince or sway someone to leave? I myself have been very guilty of posting crazy stories about Episcopalians and fringe crazies in that body with the intent to show how crazy the whole bag is. I read these stories lately and realize that my intentions and actions were silly. I hope other folks will come to the same realization.

I don’t know, I’ve seen just as many posts complaining about the bad actions of priests.

But I would laugh if someone attempted the old; this church does THIS so it’s bad but WE’RE OKAY, argument. 1. Because of the Saints alone. Some of the things they have been documented as experiencing are too bizarre to EVER top, anywhere. 2. Come ON now… really?

I remember someone used to try and convert me by telling me of people who had converted from the faith I shared… what a SILLY path to choose. There are conversions stories in EVERY faith. You need something a lot better then that to turn someone’s head.

You know what turns my head? Someone who spends their time besmirching others (churches or people) instead of focusing on what about THEIR faith is correct. That never fails to turn my head… but in the opposite direction of the dissenter.

Writing this on little sleep so I apologize if it’s a little nonsensical.

 

[John_Paul_Jones]

None to report. It’s not an infallible religion since he didn’t get to pitch in the All Star Game and will not be a Cy Young winner this year (Ubaldo should end up with it)…

None to report? I guess he’s no Michael Vick
EDIT: Cy Young winner this year (Stephen Stasburd should end up with it) ← I got that from a reliable source

Any reaction to the first post though?

I’m a bit shock what I’ve read. Though after I reading it in it’s entirety the only two things in it that really stood out & could sum up the whole post and make sense of it all was:

(I live in California)… Outer Limits episode.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

For days, heck, weeks now I have been noticing people posting the most bizarre parish-level weird incidents that they can find. Whether it’s some obscure weird Canadian Anglican priest giving a dog communion or a “slinky service” at a Lutheran parish, it seems like many Catholics are trying to cite certain bizarre antics at a micro level and trying to claim, “see! see! this is what happens in the non-Catholic world! One more reason to join the Church!”

The problem with this is that Catholic parishes have bizarre priests who do weird things as well! Yet these don’t get discussed here.

 

[jmcrae]

For days, heck, weeks now I have been noticing people posting the most bizarre parish-level weird incidents that they can find. Whether it’s some obscure weird Canadian Anglican priest giving a dog communion or a “slinky service” at a Lutheran parish, it seems like many Catholics are trying to cite certain bizarre antics at a micro level and trying to claim, “see! see! this is what happens in the non-Catholic world! One more reason to join the Church!”

Actually, it’s more like, “See? See? It’s not merely because we’re Catholic that we get so many weirdos - other religions have weirdos, too!”

I assume you must have missed the whole fiasco with “that” parish, where they have lesbian couples giving the homilies, and the priest leads their city’s gay pride parade. Or the one where the priest dressed up like a clown for Mass instead of in his vestments.

These threads usually have titles like “What the heck?” or “Is this allowed?”

Yes, we are fully well aware of the weirdos in our own midst - and we’re just so happy when we find evidence in other religions it’s not been caused by Vatican II (because none of the other religions that also have weirdos didn’t have Vatican II, so it can’t be their fault.)

 

[Loboto-Me]

Oh dear, don’t you know that Vatican II is to blame for ALL religious weirdness, not only Catholic but those of other faiths as well! must be the sign of the “End Times”

 

[bnbkaine]

Oh my goodness, I think I might have been at that church. It was years ago and my husband I am went to Midnight Mass at a Catholic Church in Monterey. We left before Communion because it was 1:30A and they were dancing the gifts up the aisle. The kids had crashed and I was about to fall asleep myself. That still rubs me the wrong way.

It just goes to prove that people are weird, regardless of religion.

 

[benidict]

im sorry! this thread just made my army day! the priest wore a what! he took them under his robes and shook them like a salt shaker! too funny. i think this would be classified as the extreme of the contemporary movement. something i am very much against, reguardless of denomination or parish. honestly, i would have walked out myself. i couldnt have sat thru this. i would have either died laughing at the hilarity of it. peace

 

[LilyM]

Hmm … perhaps it just happens that a Catholic somtimes feels singled out by other Christians, people of other faiths, atheists and agnostics (ie everybody) for odd/terrible behaviour of individual Catholics either in history or in the present day.

A priest somewhere on the other side of the country is accused of child abuse and somehow that’s all your fault simply because you’re a Catholic.

Or the Pope said something that upsets Muslims as he did a few years back, somehow that’s all your fault simply because you’re a Catholic.

Or the Catholic Kings of Spain in the middle ages conducted inquisitions and burnt heretics and forced conversions … somehow that’s your fault etc etc etc.

It’s understandable, though I don’t condone it, that faced with constant criticism of this kind, the occasional Catholic likes to get their own back when not-quite-kosher things are reported about other faiths.

 

[gretahope]

Actually, it’s more like, “See? See? It’s not merely because we’re Catholic that we get so many weirdos - other religions have weirdos, too!”

I assume you must have missed the whole fiasco with “that” parish, where they have lesbian couples giving the homilies, and the priest leads their city’s gay pride parade. Or the one where the priest dressed up like a clown for Mass instead of in his vestments.

These threads usually have titles like “What the heck?” or “Is this allowed?”

Yes, we are fully well aware of the weirdos in our own midst - and we’re just so happy when we find evidence in other religions it’s not been caused by Vatican II (because none of the other religions that also have weirdos didn’t have Vatican II, so it can’t be their fault.)

I’m sorry…but I burst into laughter after picturing a priest wearing a clown suit, also befuddled at what on earth he was thinking to accomplish…is this for real?

Sometimes I shake my head in awe that God continues to put up with any of us (and love us so inconditionally!).

 

[Dokimas]

Hmm … perhaps it just happens that a Catholic somtimes feels singled out by other Christians, people of other faiths, atheists and agnostics (ie everybody) for odd/terrible behaviour of individual Catholics either in history or in the present day.

A priest somewhere on the other side of the country is accused of child abuse and somehow that’s all your fault simply because you’re a Catholic.

Or the Pope said something that upsets Muslims as he did a few years back, somehow that’s all your fault simply because you’re a Catholic.

Or the Catholic Kings of Spain in the middle ages conducted inquisitions and burnt heretics and forced conversions … somehow that’s your fault etc etc etc.

It’s understandable, though I don’t condone it, that faced with constant criticism of this kind, the occasional Catholic likes to get their own back when not-quite-kosher things are reported about other faiths.

Let me try to share what this all looks like from an outsider. This seems important because as a non-catholic Christian, I’m told by catholics I’m not complete, kind of like a second class citizen. I’m told that I must become a catholic to be complete and have full benifits.

Those of us that are n-c Cs are reminded about the 30,000 or 40,000 denoms. Then we read about ALL the variations (you guys used the term ‘weird’) within the CC. Seems the CC isn’t as unified as we’re lead to believe, yet n-c C churches are chided here about lack of unity.

We are told the CC has the promise of Jesus so that it can’t make a mistake. We are told that Matthias was God’s choice by lots. The argument has gone that if he was not God’s choice, Jesus is too weak to keep His promise to the church. Now we hear that there are many ‘weird’ priests. Let me try to put all this together in my mind: Did Jesus stop His promise to His church? or Is Jesus too weak to fulfill His promise? or Should the CC go back to casting lots? (It’s retorical because Jesus is did NOT go back on any promise; Jesus is NOT weak; casting lots is not the answer.)

Then we are told that the CC and Jesus are one and the same. Yikes!!!

Can you see from our point of view what our dilema is yet?

It’s what many here claim about your church which doesn’t match up with reality that separates your church from many. It has little to do with the differing beliefs that in the grand scheme of things are insignificant.

AND as usual, this is my perspecitive thus my opinion.

 

[LilyM]

Let me try to share what this all looks like from an outsider. This seems important because as a non-catholic Christian, I’m told by catholics I’m not complete, kind of like a second class citizen. I’m told that I must become a catholic to be complete and have full benifits.

Those of us that are n-c Cs are reminded about the 30,000 or 40,000 denoms. Then we read about ALL the variations (you guys used the term ‘weird’) within the CC. Seems the CC isn’t as unified as we’re lead to believe, yet n-c C churches are chided here about lack of unity.

We are told the CC has the promise of Jesus so that it can’t make a mistake. We are told that Matthias was God’s choice by lots. The argument has gone that if he was not God’s choice, Jesus is too weak to keep His promise to the church. Now we hear that there are many ‘weird’ priests. Let me try to put all this together in my mind: Did Jesus stop His promise to His church? or Is Jesus too weak to fulfill His promise? or Should the CC go back to casting lots? (It’s retorical because Jesus is did NOT go back on any promise; Jesus is NOT weak; casting lots is not the answer.)

Then we are told that the CC and Jesus are one and the same. Yikes!!!

Can you see from our point of view what our dilema is yet?

It’s what many here claim about your church which doesn’t match up with reality that separates your church from many. It has little to do with the differing beliefs that in the grand scheme of things are insignificant.

AND as usual, this is my perspecitive thus my opinion.

The difference, the huge difference, being that you only get that HERE - and are free to leave at any time, by the way, if you don’t like it. There would be a handful, if that, of Catholic fora similar to this one.

WE get it from all quarters - mainstream media, all over the internet (for every ONE of our fora there are DOZENS if not HUNDREDS of non-Catholic or non-Christian ones that indulge in plenty of Catholic-bashing).

We get it from non-Catholic family and friends, heck, even strangers in the street if they see us with ashes on our head on Ash Wednesday. Or see us entering or exiting a Catholic church. Heck, if we just mention the word ‘Catholic’ in passing.

A suprisingly high percentage of the reactions I’ve had simply to my use of the ‘C’ word - without even telling people that I am Catholic or actively trying to defend the Church - are absolutely incredible and relentless in their viciousness. And there really is nowhere I can go to escape it completely - not unless I keep the TV off permanently, stop reading newspapers, stop using the internet entirely.

 

[Dokimas]

The difference, the huge difference, being that you only get that HERE - and are free to leave at any time, by the way, if you don’t like it. There would be a handful, if that, of Catholic fora similar to this one.

WE get it from all quarters - mainstream media, all over the internet (for every ONE of our fora there are DOZENS if not HUNDREDS of non-Catholic or non-Christian ones that indulge in plenty of Catholic-bashing).

We get it from non-Catholic family and friends, heck, even strangers in the street if they see us with ashes on our head on Ash Wednesday. Or see us entering or exiting a Catholic church. Heck, if we just mention the word ‘Catholic’ in passing.

A suprisingly high percentage of the reactions I’ve had simply to my use of the ‘C’ word - without even telling people that I am Catholic or actively trying to defend the Church - are absolutely incredible and relentless in their viciousness. And there really is nowhere I can go to escape it completely - not unless I keep the TV off permanently, stop reading newspapers, stop using the internet entirely.

Honestly, don’t you think that when a church tells the world that they are the One and only true church with all the correct doctrines, this church is open to all kinds of interactions from outsiders?

Sure much of it is uncalled for and wrong. However, as I tried to point out, churches ‘in glass buildings’ should not throw stones. Some of the ‘heat’ the CC gets is because of how it treats others of slightly differing understandings, IMO.

 

[IowaJay]

For days, heck, weeks now I have been noticing people posting the most bizarre parish-level weird incidents that they can find. Whether it’s some obscure weird Canadian Anglican priest giving a dog communion or a “slinky service” at a Lutheran parish, it seems like many Catholics are trying to cite certain bizarre antics at a micro level and trying to claim, “see! see! this is what happens in the non-Catholic world! One more reason to join the Church!”

The problem with this is that Catholic parishes have bizarre priests who do weird things as well! Yet these don’t get discussed here.

About four years ago my wife and I went to the coast (I live in California). We went to Mass at a “Catholic” church in the Monterrey diocese. I won’t say the town to avoid scandalizing the people there. Suffice it to say the priest wore a rainbow robe, clapped his hands like a baptist while saying the Creed no less! He had Depok Chopra posters at the entrance to the church building, meditation seminar brochures, tantric yoga info, you name it. He gave the most bizarre sermon you’ve ever heard. It was total nonense. When they exchanged the sign of peace, he had everyone walk in a zig zag pattern around the church in this strange formation. The people were dressed like hippies. When communion came he handed out the Host but when kids or people not wanting the Eucharist approached, he took them literally UNDER HIS ROBE and wiggled around back and forth like they were salt and he the shaker. He made this crazy face while he shook them around. The entire Mass was something out of an Outer Limits episode.

But when we left, my wife and I knew full well that this wasn’t the fault of the Catholic Church, all Catholics weren’t weird and outlandish like this, and that there are nuts in every batch.

Why is the conclusion always drawn in here by so many folks that the zany and carnival-like actions by rogue weirdos is somehow a symptom of the entire institution? There are so many pro-women priest priests in the Catholic seminaries. There are so many pro-choice priests as well. I know some! There are priests who are gay and partnered, guys like Hans Kung who basically is the Catholic equivalent to Shelby Spong in some ways, a total rogue, and liberal Catholics in the university system all over. Look at what happened at Georgetown with Obama and then Notre Dame turning a blind eye to the pro-life agenda of Rome. My own pastor here in the Catholic parish of my town told a friend of mine that the catechism isn’t worth reading except to bore oneself to sleep----ignore it! that was his advice. Another priest told us that NFP is a joke, don’t worry about it. We had a gay pastor leave his parish to be with his lover and another take a leave of absence to work things out with his boyfriend.

Do these weird folks represent the entire population and institutions of Catholicism or are they just kooks that have their own misconceptions about Christianity and are exceptions to the rule?

Examples of weird Anglicans, Lutherans, and other non-Catholic Christians should not sway anyone about leaving, staying, or joining a church anymore than the freak show I went to at the coast should convince or sway someone to leave? I myself have been very guilty of posting crazy stories about Episcopalians and fringe crazies in that body with the intent to show how crazy the whole bag is. I read these stories lately and realize that my intentions and actions were silly. I hope other folks will come to the same realization.

Thanks for pointing this out - reminds me a bit of Jesus’ speck and plank remarks.

However, I think it must be said that Catholics under Pope Benedict XVI are making an honest attempt to return to liturgical orthodoxy. TEC isn’t doing that, my ELCA isn’t doing that, and so weird examples will keep showing up with more frequency. In the Catholic Church, I suspect that as the 60’s and 70’s generation of priests retires and Benedict’s reforms take hold, there will be fewer and fewer examples of liturgical weirdness.

 

[Dale_M]

Let me try to share what this all looks like from an outsider. This seems important because as a non-catholic Christian, I’m told by catholics I’m not complete, kind of like a second class citizen. I’m told that I must become a catholic to be complete and have full benifits.

The internet is a diverse place Certain forums and blogs attract a following among diverse people, but others attract persons with a specific attitude.

CAF is a bit unique because it is so large. However, it is not representative of most Catholics (at least in the US). So please take any comments you read here with a grain of salt.

Another problem, is that some CAF members are interested in mutually respectful dialogue, others are interested in combative apologetics. I admit I am disappointed by this latter approach because it seems uncharitable and destructive.