reception of communion

[Lapey]

Today after the communion service, I was told by the deacon that I shouldn’t kneel because our bishop has directed us to stand for the reception of Holy Communion.

I was under the impression that there is now more room for those who choose to receive kneeling, as opposed to simply not being denied previously.

What’s the reality of this, and how and where does the local bishop’s authority play a role?

I would say that this deacon should have told you exactly, well…nothing. Even with this message from the bishop, it is not the place of the deacon to “correct” this. The Holy See has made this clear, if a person chooses to receive while kneeling, they should be afforded the right without being reprimanded.

There was a statement, and i am drawing a blank where it was, that commanded clergy to “correct this in a pastoral manner”. This was directly worded to correct what the USCCB had stated.

I am a person who would receive while kneeling, if it wouldn’t be frowned upon. I used to receive in the hand years ago, I now receive on the tongue.

People think, as a few have stated in this thread, that a person who does kneel, draws attention to themselves, or causes distraction, well I would say to them, when I am receiving the Eucharist, I am not thinking of anyone but me and Jesus; which is what I should be thinking of. And I would say that if a person’s main concern while going up to receive Jesus is whether I stand or kneel, then I would ask, has that person truly discerned the Body and Blood of Christ?

Our Holy Father has made his thoughts well know, either is accepted and we should not be reprimanded if we choose to exercise either.

 

[Anna_Claire]

…and what if someone insists on standing for communion at an EF mass…should they be left alone too?

 

[Lapey]

…and what if someone insists on standing for communion at an EF mass…should they be left alone too?

In my opinion, and I am no expert on the EF mass, yes. They should be allowed to receive as they feel they are called to receive.

 

[thomas_jd]

Our parish has 700+ at the Sunday masses. We have one person that receives while kneeling. The two parish priests accept this arraingment, one doesn’t like this but he
knows better to challenge this.

Authority for the mass comes from Rome. The Clerics, including the Bishop, must follow these directives. The Bishops task is to protect the liturgy!
The deacon was wrong in his actions, just as the pastor would be wrong if he said the same to you.

The indult to stand was granted for pastoral reasons. It allows knelling as the normative method, it does not prohibit standing.
I knell if there is a altar rail, I stand if there is not.
I kneel, when serving, if the priest celebrates ad orientum, I stand if not.

 

[Lapey]

GIRM - 2002

160. The priest then takes the paten or ciborium and goes to the communicants, who, as a rule, approach in a procession.
The faithful are not permitted to take the consecrated bread or the sacred chalice by themselves and, still less, to hand them from one to another. The norm for reception of Holy Communion in the dioceses of the United States is standing. Communicants should not be denied Holy Communion because they kneel. Rather, such instances should be addressed pastorally, by providing the faithful with proper catechesis on the reasons for this norm.

Redemptionis Sacramentum 2004
[90.] “The faithful should receive Communion kneeling or standing, as the Conference of Bishops will have determined”, with its acts having received the recognitio of the Apostolic See. “However, if they receive Communion standing, it is recommended that they give due reverence before the reception of the Sacrament, as set forth in the same norms”.[176]
[91.] In distributing Holy Communion it is to be remembered that “sacred ministers may not deny the sacraments to those who seek them in a reasonable manner, are rightly disposed, and are not prohibited by law from receiving them”.[177] Hence any baptized Catholic who is not prevented by law must be admitted to Holy Communion. Therefore, it is not licit to deny Holy Communion to any of Christ’s faithful solely on the grounds, for example, that the person wishes to receive the Eucharist kneeling or standing.

GIRM 2011

1. The Priest then takes the paten or ciborium and approaches the communicants, who usually come up in procession.
   It is not permitted for the faithful to take the consecrated Bread or the sacred chalice by themselves and, still less, to hand them on from one to another among themselves. The norm established for the Dioceses of the United States of America is that Holy Communion is to be received standing, unless an individual member of the faithful wishes to receive Communion while kneeling (Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, Instruction, Redemptionis Sacramentum, March 25, 2004, no. 91).

Here are the sections of the documents which deal with this…just adding them as exhibit A, B, & C…

Even though some of these situations can cause istractions, we have been instructed to not touch it, at least here in our diocese. I as deacon will never approach a member of the faithfull to correct them unless I see an abuse which requires action, i.e. walking off without consuming the Eucharist.

 

[zab]

Even though some of these situations can cause istractions, we have been instructed to not touch it, at least here in our diocese. I as deacon will never approach a member of the faithfull to correct them unless I see an abuse which requires action, i.e. walking off without consuming the Eucharist.

I can see why you have been instructed not to touch it. I just read the posted link regarding what one bishop wrote. It is OK to tell the people that the norm for reception of Communion is standing, but to say that kneeling and genuflecting are not proper according to the liturgical norms and to give any reasons of what difficulties it may cause can cause quite a stir.

 

[centurionguard]

I disagree. After the Communion Service was a proper time to bring it up.

I’m still having difficulty understanding how the deacon could say a parishioner was disobedient for kneeling to receive Holy Communion even if a Bishop sets the Norm of Standing to receive.

Cardinal Arinze has already clarified his position on postures and reception of Holy Communion. Even the clergy were informed (not) to exact regimental military standards on liturgical norms if a Catholic faithful chose to receive kneeling.

 

[zab]

I’m still having difficulty understanding how the deacon could say a parishioner was disobedient for kneeling to receive Holy Communion even if a Bishop sets the Norm of Standing to receive.

Cardinal Arinze has already clarified his position on postures and reception of Holy Communion. Even the clergy were informed (not) to exact regimental military standards on liturgical norms if a Catholic faithful chose to receive kneeling.

I have difficulty with anyone saying that a parishioner was disobedient for kneeling to receive Holy Communion.

 

[YoungTradCath]

…and what if someone insists on standing for communion at an EF mass…should they be left alone too?

Yes, they should be left out because there is no provision for standing in the EF. The whole fuss about kneeling is that kneeling has always been the universal norm and still is the universal norm (believe it or not), and has a very long and well-documented history in the Roman Rite. Standing, well, standing doesn’t really have much of a history at all in the Roman Rite. Standing is only in the stead of the universal norm of kneeling, and in this case does not replace it.

If someone is sick or otherwise can’t kneel (age) then no priest would deny communion on that basis to someone at an EF, but if it’s due to the insistence of standing for no reason other than personal preference, communion can and should be denied, and it is done. There are no options in the EF… not only for communion, but for anything, really. I even think not kneeling is part of De defectibus (maybe not), a document on “defects” that may arise in the EF.

Also, please note that documents like the GIRM and others do not in any way pertain to the EF because they are at odds with EF rubrics and texts. In Summorum Pontificum, the document reauthorizing the EF, it specifically states that if there are “new” laws that contradict EF laws, that the EF take precedence.

 

[triumphguy]

Doesn’t the example set by many, many saints who submitted themselves to the authority of their bishops or religious superiors, even when those superiors were in error, challenge us to do likewise.

If the bishop requested that we should all wear blue to mass shouldn’t we?

Such submission is a form of self-mortification, and should be embraced meekly as such.

If the bishop requests that all those receiving communion should stand, and it is legitimate for Bishops to request that, then in a spirit of Charity and Obedience, should we not stand?

In these circumstances kneeling can be seen as an act of pride and disobedience to Christ’s representative on earth. Is this the proper attitude for receiving communion?

If we submit meekly to a directive not to kneel against our wishes, then we are also participating in Christ’s redemptive suffering and death, which makes our reception of the Eucharist more fitting.

 

[brgregmack]

… I also mentioned Jimmy Akin’s “Mass Revision,” and he thought that “Mass Confusion” had a co-author. That’s false isn’t it?

 

[centurionguard]

Doesn’t the example set by many, many saints who submitted themselves to the authority of their bishops or religious superiors, even when those superiors were in error, challenge us to do likewise.

If the bishop requested that we should all wear blue to mass shouldn’t we?

Such submission is a form of self-mortification, and should be embraced meekly as such.

If the bishop requests that all those receiving communion should stand, and it is legitimate for Bishops to request that, then in a spirit of Charity and Obedience, should we not stand?

In these circumstances kneeling can be seen as an act of pride and disobedience to Christ’s representative on earth. Is this the proper attitude for receiving communion?

If we submit meekly to a directive not to kneel against our wishes, then we are also participating in Christ’s redemptive suffering and death, which makes our reception of the Eucharist more fitting.

Personally; I have difficulty seeing how Kneeling can be an act of Pride.

Have you ever read Pope Benedict XVI book Spirit of The Liturgy when our present Pope was known as Cardinal Ratzinger? Theology of Kneeling-Cardinal Ratzinger
formembranes.com/Kneel1.pdf

 

[zab]

Doesn’t the example set by many, many saints who submitted themselves to the authority of their bishops or religious superiors, even when those superiors were in error, challenge us to do likewise.

If the bishop requested that we should all wear blue to mass shouldn’t we?

Such submission is a form of self-mortification, and should be embraced meekly as such.

If the bishop requests that all those receiving communion should stand, and it is legitimate for Bishops to request that, then in a spirit of Charity and Obedience, should we not stand?

In these circumstances kneeling can be seen as an act of pride and disobedience to Christ’s representative on earth. Is this the proper attitude for receiving communion?

If we submit meekly to a directive not to kneel against our wishes, then we are also participating in Christ’s redemptive suffering and death, which makes our reception of the Eucharist more fitting.

While it has been made clear that no one is to accuse people who choose to kneel for reception of Communion as being “disobedient”, there is still much spiritual value in what you have written that not all are ready to understand.

 

[brgregmack]

While it has been made clear that no one is to accuse people who choose to kneel for reception of Communion as being “disobedient”, there is still much spiritual value in what you have written that not all are ready to understand.

… and in this particular case, if I were disobeying the bishop if he’s in error and overstepping his authority, I would still be well within my rights in doing so. The moral problem that would come back on me would be the motivation in doing so.

 

[zab]

… and in this particular case, if I were disobeying the bishop if he’s in error and overstepping his authority, I would still be well within my rights in doing so. The moral problem that would come back on me would be the motivation in doing so.

There is no question of your right to kneel nor of a question of a moral problem concerning your motivation. My reply to triumphguy concerned an entirely different matter.

 

[domandcarols]

Yes, they should be left out because there is no provision for standing in the EF. The whole fuss about kneeling is that kneeling has always been the universal norm and still is the universal norm (believe it or not), and has a very long and well-documented history in the Roman Rite. Standing, well, standing doesn’t really have much of a history at all in the Roman Rite. Standing is only in the stead of the universal norm of kneeling, and in this case does not replace it.

If someone is sick or otherwise can’t kneel (age) then no priest would deny communion on that basis to someone at an EF, but if it’s due to the insistence of standing for no reason other than personal preference, communion can and should be denied, and it is done. There are no options in the EF… not only for communion, but for anything, really. I even think not kneeling is part of De defectibus (maybe not), a document on “defects” that may arise in the EF.

Also, please note that documents like the GIRM and others do not in any way pertain to the EF because they are at odds with EF rubrics and texts. In Summorum Pontificum, the document reauthorizing the EF, it specifically states that if there are “new” laws that contradict EF laws, that the EF take precedence.

Exactly.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Personally; I have difficulty seeing how Kneeling can be an act of Pride.

Anything can be an act of pride. Its not the act that is prideful by itself, but the intention of the person. Remember the Publican and the Pharisee. How can prayer be prideful? ITS PRAYER! But that Parable shows us how even prayer can be prideful.

 

[ProVobis]

…and what if someone insists on standing for communion at an EF mass…should they be left alone too?

Most of the time they will accommodate those who can’t kneel without any problems. They will even bring communion to your seat if you ask an usher.

 

[ProVobis]

Cardinal Arinze has already clarified his position on postures and reception of Holy Communion. Even the clergy were informed (not) to exact regimental military standards on liturgical norms if a Catholic faithful chose to receive kneeling.

I think the Cardinal mentions somewhere that the sacrament is a sacrament of love. In other words, it shouldn’t be the center of some controversy. I can’t remember what or where the controversy was prior to 1960.

 

[YoungTradCath]

While it has been made clear that no one is to accuse people who choose to kneel for reception of Communion as being “disobedient”, there is still much spiritual value in what you have written that not all are ready to understand.

But… it’s not just that no one is to accuse kneeling people of being disobedient, it’s that they aren’t being disobedient by kneeling in the first place. ??? Bishops can’t forbid kneeling to receive communion any more than they can forbid priests from wearing chasubles, or prevent tabernacles from being installed in churches, or forbid deacons from saying the dismissal at the end of mass! These things, of which receiving holy communion kneeling is one, have already been decided by the Holy See, which a bishop can’t subvert. Bishops can’t regulate things in the liturgy not conceded to their authority.