reception of communion

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YoungTradCath said:
But… it’s not just that no one is to accuse kneeling people of being disobedient, it’s that they aren’t being disobedient by kneeling in the first place. ??? Bishops can’t forbid kneeling to receive communion any more than they can forbid priests from wearing chasubles, or prevent tabernacles from being installed in churches, or forbid deacons from saying the dismissal at the end of mass! These things, of which receiving holy communion kneeling is one, have already been decided by the Holy See, which a bishop can’t subvert. Bishops can’t regulate things in the liturgy not conceded to their authority.
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My reply was of a totally different matter that was more in reference to following the example of saints “who submitted themselves to the authority of their bishops or religious superiors, even when those superiors were in error, challenge us to do likewise”. I did not say, nor imply, nor have a thought of anyone of being disobedient for choosing to kneel.
 
As this discussion is US based this may or may not be relevant but the UK GIRM states:

“In the celebration of Mass the faithful form a holy people, a people whom God
has made his own, … Thus, they are to shun any appearance of individualism or division, keeping before their eyes that they have only one Father in heaven and accordingly are all brothers and sisters to each other. … This unity is
beautifully apparent from the gestures and postures observed in common by
the faithful.”

(my emphases). Just a thought.
 
dnicoll said:
As this discussion is US based this may or may not be relevant but the UK GIRM states:

“In the celebration of Mass the faithful form a holy people, a people whom God
has made his own, … Thus, they are to shun any appearance of individualism or division, keeping before their eyes that they have only one Father in heaven and accordingly are all brothers and sisters to each other. … This unity is
beautifully apparent from the gestures and postures observed in common by
the faithful.”

(my emphases). Just a thought.
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Since the option to kneel is given, choosing to do so would not be individualism.
 
Communion - means coming together in union.
The Bishops have the right to make directives concerning the GIRM.
Refusing to obey the directives of the local shepherd of the Church is disobedience.
Obedience can be an act of self mortification, standing to receive communion can therefore be an act of mortification and obedience that one can offer up to the Church.

If I am directed, encouraged, requested, to kneel and receive communion on the tongue by my bishop I will do so, no matter what my personal feelings are in the matter. I will offer up any feelings of resentment as a form of self-mortification. Even if I am told that will not be *refused *communion if I stand.

The Eucharist is not about “I” it’s about “we” the Church.
 
triumphguy said:
Refusing to obey the directives of the local shepherd of the Church is disobedience.
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Refusing an allowance is not disobedience, though admittedly the person or bishop or priest or deacon or EMHC may feel slighted.

If one feels the way it’s done in his parish is sacrilegeous, then profanity comes into play and the rules set by the Vatican are clear on that score.
 
triumphguy said:
The Bishops have the right to make directives concerning the GIRM.
Refusing to obey the directives of the local shepherd of the Church is disobedience.
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No they don’t. They only have the right to make directives contrary to the GIRM when the GIRM or another document concedes as much. Several paragraphs of the GIRM have an addendum at the ends of them that go something like, “…unless the ordinary determines otherwise.” The relevant paragraph of the GIRM does not contain such an addendum, and no other document concedes this permission.

Let me sum this up:
  1. The GIRM for the USA directs communicants to receive standing unless an individual (and no qualifying reasons are given, nor are any relevant footnotes) chooses to kneel.
  2. Bishops can’t change things or make directives about the liturgy unless the topic or part of the mass in question is conceded to them.
  3. This subject has not been conceded to bishops.
  4. Therefore, it is wrong for clergy in the USA to “direct” communicants to stand, as if they aren’t allowed to kneel.
With that said:

What I THINK this probably comes down to is the fact that we just received an updated GIRM in 2011. The previous GIRM came out in 2002. The relevant paragraph of the 2002 GIRM says that clergy should “pastorally correct” people who kneel for communion, or something to that effect. The 2011 GIRM allows individual communicants to kneel if they so choose, with no paragraph about “pastorally correcting” them if they do kneel for communion. SINCE our new edition of the GIRM is relatively new, I’m thinking that this “directive” might have either come down before the new GIRM was released, or the bishop released the directive afterwards without checking the new GIRM. Bishops usually don’t try to restrict practices that are explicitly allowed by a higher authority, that is, the Holy See itself, because they can’t unless they are given that permission.
 
triumphguy said:
Communion - means coming together in union.
The Bishops have the right to make directives concerning the GIRM.
Refusing to obey the directives of the local shepherd of the Church is disobedience.
Obedience can be an act of self mortification, standing to receive communion can therefore be an act of mortification and obedience that one can offer up to the Church.

If I am directed, encouraged, requested, to kneel and receive communion on the tongue by my bishop I will do so, no matter what my personal feelings are in the matter. I will offer up any feelings of resentment as a form of self-mortification. Even if I am told that will not be *refused *communion if I stand.

The Eucharist is not about “I” it’s about “we” the Church.
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No they don’t. For example, when the H1N1 over-reaction broke out and the bishop of Calgary suspended the EF Mass when the priest said he could not distribute communion in the hand, the bishop made an error in saying that communion could not be received on the tongue for medical reasons and that it was his call to make. Eventually Rome got involved and things were settled.

The GIRM clearly states communion is to be received standing, unless the person chooses to kneel. It’s the person’s choice whether or not they wish to kneel.
 
ConstantineTG said:
Anything can be an act of pride. Its not the act that is prideful by itself, but the intention of the person. Remember the Publican and the Pharisee. How can prayer be prideful? ITS PRAYER! But that Parable shows us how even prayer can be prideful.
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True. however; without knowing the heartfelt intent of the Catholic faithful kneeling to receive Holy Communion it would be impossible for someone else to judge unless a troubled Catholic chose to bring it up with his/her Father confessor. Of course Jesus would be the first to know.
 
paperwight66 said:
I don’t see why. It’s how Anglicans receive, kneeling, and in the hand. It’s perfectly do-able.
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And at the Anglican Ordinariat parish I went to a few weeks ago everyone knelt and received in the hand.
 
paperwight66 said:
How do you mean?
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I’m trying to picture a short person kneeling in front of me with open hands. That would be a little too low for me to administer communion to him, sorry.

Now if you had mentioned communion rails, that would be a different scenario altogether. But that would solve other problems as well.

In any case, I’m done with this thread.
 
ProVobis said:
I’m trying to picture a short person kneeling in front of me with open hands. That would be a little too low for me to administer communion to him, sorry.

Now if you had mentioned communion rails, that would be a different scenario altogether. But that would solve other problems as well.

In any case, I’m done with this thread.
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You could also try picture those 7 footers receiving on the tongue while standing. We have several tall people in our parish. One young man kneels, which does make it easier for the priest and the EMHC. Other tall people who receive on the tongue must squat down. Our pastor used to stand at ground level to distribute Communion but I have noticed that he is now standing on the step. And they still have to squat! :).
 
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