Recess with the Book of Gospels?

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Is it pemissable to recess out of the Church with the Book of Gospels (Evangeliary)? I know it’s allowed when processing into the Church so long as it’s a Evangeliary and not a *Lectionary, *but I’m curious if that goes for the recessional as well?
 
No, the Book of Gospels should never process out. The people, having heard the Gospel proclaimed, are the Gospel Book going out!

Deacon Ed
 
Deacon Ed:
No, the Book of Gospels should never process out. The people, having heard the Gospel proclaimed, are the Gospel Book going out!

Deacon Ed
Given that they recess out with the Evangeliary at Sunday Mass from the Basilica at the University of Notre Dame, I’ll guess that there is nothing from the Church that prohibits such action.

What you suggest sounds rather new agey – the sorta thing I would read in Ministry & Liturgy magazine.
 
Nota Bene:
Given that they recess out with the Evangeliary at Sunday Mass from the Basilica at the University of Notre Dame, I’ll guess that there is nothing from the Church that prohibits such action.
. . .QUOTE]

Is the Basilica at the University of Notre Dame the new authority for Rites and Sacraments? Has the Vatican delegated this authority?

Notre Dame’s track record in obeying Church Law does not give one great confidence in their example.
 
Nota Bene:
Given that they recess out with the Evangeliary at Sunday Mass from the Basilica at the University of Notre Dame, I’ll guess that there is nothing from the Church that prohibits such action.

What you suggest sounds rather new agey – the sorta thing I would read in Ministry & Liturgy magazine.
The problem is that the GIRM specifies that the Book of Gospels *may *be carried in the entrance procession. There is nothing that specifies whether or not it is to be carried in the recessional procession.

Deacon Ed
 
Deacon Ed:
No, the Book of Gospels should never process out. The people, having heard the Gospel proclaimed, are the Gospel Book going out!

Deacon Ed
Deacon Ed is right. The Book of Gospels is left in the Church in an “appropriate place” after Mass. This is clearly directed in the Rite. The people of God have been fed. They’ve been fed by the Gospel, by the Homily, by the Eucharist. The book stays in the church.
 
The “recession” really isn’t part of the Mass at all. The GIRM, for example, covers the concluding rites in only 4 lines and doesn’t mention the recession at all.

GIRM - Concluding Rites

It should be noted that the GIRM does make references several times to carrying the Book of Gospels in - but nothing about it leaving. (Also, only the Book of the Gospels is processed in - never the Lectionary.)
 
Deacon Ed:
The problem is that the GIRM specifies that the Book of Gospels *may *be carried in the entrance procession. There is nothing that specifies whether or not it is to be carried in the recessional procession.

Deacon Ed
Precisely…
 
Detroit Sue:
Deacon Ed is right. The Book of Gospels is left in the Church in an “appropriate place” after Mass. This is clearly directed in the Rite. The people of God have been fed. They’ve been fed by the Gospel, by the Homily, by the Eucharist. The book stays in the church.
You are wrong.

Care to try and cite an actual Church directive that supports your position?
 
Joe Kelley:
Is the Basilica at the University of Notre Dame the new authority for Rites and Sacraments? Has the Vatican delegated this authority?

Notre Dame’s track record in obeying Church Law does not give one great confidence in their example.
First, the Church has not specifically addressed my question. David Cheny’s response is likely the most accurate one possible – and it’s not something I immediately thought of, so I’m happy I asked the question.

Second, don’t be so quick to show ignorance with respect to UND. While UND may well employ what appear to be heretics like Richard McBrien as instuctors, it is the CSC order that is in charge of the liturgy at the university. The CSC Fathers have a stong reputation for orthodoxy.
 
The big problem here is that when the priest says " This Mass is ended, …", he means it.

The Mass is over at that point. Anything than happens afterward is extraliturgical; closing hymn, recessional etc… are not actually part of the Mass.

But Sue is right in one sense, the GIRM states that after the Gospel has been read, the Book of the Gospels is placed in an “appropriate place”. There is nothing in the GIRM about picking up again during Mass.

So I suppose that one could actually carry it out, but it should not be picked up until after the “Ite, Missae est”.
 
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Brendan:
The big problem here is that when the priest says " This Mass is ended, …", he means it.

The Mass is over at that point. Anything than happens afterward is extraliturgical; closing hymn, recessional etc… are not actually part of the Mass.

But Sue is right in one sense, the GIRM states that after the Gospel has been read, the Book of the Gospels is placed in an “appropriate place”. There is nothing in the GIRM about picking up again during Mass.

So I suppose that one could actually carry it out, but it should not be picked up until after the “Ite, Missae est”.
Hi Brendan!

Cabrini used to ALWAYS recess with a layperson carrying the Book of Gospels out, then when they got a deacon, they had him do it. DH was extremely uncomforatable about this as is NOT prescribed. Deacon Waldman was there once for a baptism, and when he saw my husband carry out the book, totally reamed him. Gave my DH the impetus to set the parish straight on at least this one issue, and even though they kicked about it, they now leave it in the sanctuary.
 
Detroit Sue:
Deacon Ed is right. The Book of Gospels is left in the Church in an “appropriate place” after Mass. This is clearly directed in the Rite. The people of God have been fed. They’ve been fed by the Gospel, by the Homily, by the Eucharist. The book stays in the church.
Hi Brendan!

Cabrini used to ALWAYS recess with a layperson carrying the Book of Gospels out, then when they got a deacon, they had him do it. DH was extremely uncomforatable about this as is NOT prescribed. Deacon Waldman was there once for a baptism, and when he saw my husband carry out the book, totally reamed him. Gave my DH the impetus to set the parish straight on at least this one issue, and even though they kicked about it, they now leave it in the sanctuary.
You have posted twice now. You have yet to show where the Church says not to recess with the Evangeliary. All you can seem to offer is local custom and/or personal conjecture.
 
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Brendan:
The big problem here is that when the priest says " This Mass is ended, …", he means it.

The Mass is over at that point. Anything than happens afterward is extraliturgical; closing hymn, recessional etc… are not actually part of the Mass.

But Sue is right in one sense, the GIRM states that after the Gospel has been read, the Book of the Gospels is placed in an “appropriate place”. There is nothing in the GIRM about picking up again during Mass.

So I suppose that one could actually carry it out, but it should not be picked up until after the “Ite, Missae est”.
And as you suggest, there is nothing in the GIRM about picking the Evangeliary up again after the dismissal, much like an altar server might pick-up the processional cross.

It’s quite clear that there is nothing wrong with the pious tradition in some parishes of carrying the Evangeliary back to the sacristy. At the same time it would never be wrong not to do so, so long as they Evangeliary was places in an appropriate place within the sanctuary after the reading.
 
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Brendan:
The big problem here is that when the priest says " This Mass is ended, …", he means it.

The Mass is over at that point. Anything than happens afterward is extraliturgical; closing hymn, recessional etc… are not actually part of the Mass.
In fact, “Take me out to the ballgame” has occasionally been played as a recessional for funerals at Holy Name Cathedral in Chicago, when deemed appropriate.
 
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chicago:
In fact, “Take me out to the ballgame” has occasionally been played as a recessional for funerals at Holy Name Cathedral in Chicago, when deemed appropriate.
I don’t think that would ever be appropriate for a requiem – or any Mass for that matter.

Perhaps at the gathering in the KofC hall after the Mass, but not as the recessional.

BTW, was Harry Carey the cantor?
 
Nota Bene:
You have posted twice now. You have yet to show where the Church says not to recess with the Evangeliary. All you can seem to offer is local custom and/or personal conjecture.
Well, ya know, I just can’t put my hands on my GIRM right now. It is not prescribed in the GIRM to recess with the Evangeliary. It IS stated (I’ll find the paragraph when I have a moment) that once the Gospel is proclaimed, the Book is to be put away in an appropriate place.

Why do people have to look for loopholes all the time? :rolleyes: Isn’t simple obedience enough?
 
The same logic which would allow the Evangeliary to be recessed with can be used to allow extra-liturgical rites to be placed in the middle of Mass, or for that matter a recliner and coffee table to be placed in the sanctuary, simply because it is not forbidden. If it doesn’t say that you can do it, then you can’t.
 
Detroit Sue:
Well, ya know, I just can’t put my hands on my GIRM right now. It is not prescribed in the GIRM to recess with the Evangeliary. It IS stated (I’ll find the paragraph when I have a moment) that once the Gospel is proclaimed, the Book is to be put away in an appropriate place.

Why do people have to look for loopholes all the time? :rolleyes: Isn’t simple obedience enough?
Where? You need to get the facts straight before judging others…

*GIRM

*"*The Biblical Readings

*57. In the readings, the table of God’s word is prepared for the faithful, and the riches of the Bible are opened to them.61 Hence, it is preferable to maintain the arrangement of the biblical readings, by which light is shed on the unity of both Testaments and of salvation history. Moreover, it is unlawful to substitute other, non-biblical texts for the readings and responsorial Psalm, which contain the word of God.62
  1. In the celebration of the Mass with a congregation, the readings are always proclaimed from the ambo.
  2. By tradition, the function of proclaiming the readings is ministerial, not presidential. The readings, therefore, should be proclaimed by a lector, and the Gospel by a deacon or, in his absence, a priest other than the celebrant. If, however, a deacon or another priest is not present, the priest celebrant himself should read the Gospel. Further, if another suitable lector is also not present, then the priest celebrant should also proclaim the other readings.
After each reading, whoever reads gives the acclamation, to which the gathered people reply, honoring the word of God that they have received in faith and with grateful hearts.
  1. The reading of the Gospel is the high point of the Liturgy of the Word. The Liturgy itself teaches that great reverence is to be shown to it by setting it off from the other readings with special marks of honor: whether the minister appointed to proclaim it prepares himself by a blessing or prayer; or the faithful, standing as they listen to it being read, through their acclamations acknowledge and confess Christ present and speaking to them; or the very marks of reverence are given to the Book of the Gospels.
The Responsorial Psalm
  1. After the first reading comes the responsorial Psalm, which is an integral part of the Liturgy of the Word and holds great liturgical and pastoral importance, because it fosters meditation on the word of God.
The responsorial Psalm should correspond to each reading and should, as a rule, be taken from the Lectionary.

It is preferable that the responsorial Psalm be sung, at least as far as the people’s response is concerned. Hence, the psalmist, or the cantor of the Psalm, sings the verses of the Psalm from the ambo or another suitable place. The entire congregation remains seated and listens but, as a rule, takes part by singing the response, except when the Psalm is sung straight through without a response. In order, however, that the people may be able to sing the Psalm response more readily, texts of some responses and Psalms have been chosen for the various seasons of the year or for the various categories of Saints. These may be used in place of the text corresponding to the reading whenever the Psalm is sung. If the Psalm cannot be sung, then it should be recited in such a way that it is particularly suited to fostering meditation on the word of God…
  1. After the reading that immediately precedes the Gospel, the Alleluia or another chant indicated by the rubrics is sung, as required by the liturgical season. An acclamation of this kind constitutes a rite or act in itself, by which the assembly of the faithful welcomes and greets the Lord who is about to speak to them in the Gospel and professes their faith by means of the chant. It is sung by all while standing and is led by the choir or a cantor, being repeated if this is appropriate. The verse, however, is sung either by the choir or by the cantor.

  1. *]The Alleluia is sung in every season other than Lent. The verses are taken from the Lectionary or the Graduale.
    *]During Lent, in place of the Alleluia, the verse before the Gospel is sung, as indicated in the Lectionary. It is also permissible to sing another psalm or tract, as found in the Graduale.
    1. When there is only one reading before the Gospel,

    1. *]During a season when the Alleluia is to be said, either the Alleluia Psalm or the responsorial Psalm followed by the Alleluia with its verse may be used;
      *]During the season when the Alleluia is not to be said, either the psalm and the verse before the Gospel or the psalm alone may be used;
      *]The Alleluia or verse before the Gospel may be omitted if they are not sung.
      1. The Sequence, which is optional except on Easter Sunday and on Pentecost Day, is sung before the Alleluia.
      The Homily…"
 
Nota Bene:
. . .
Second, don’t be so quick to show ignorance with respect to UND. While UND may well employ what appear to be heretics like Richard McBrien as instuctors, it is the CSC order that is in charge of the liturgy at the university. The CSC Fathers have a stong reputation for orthodoxy.
It could be that I am not as ignorant as you assume. As I recall it was Father Hesburgh, C.S.C., acting as the president of UND,who was a primary author of the Land O’ Lakes statement declaring universities independent of Church teaching.
 
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