Reciting the Creed During Mass

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I am wondering what the Sacramentary and GIRM state about reciting the Nicene Creed during an ordinary Mass. Our priest seems to like to use the responsorial version that is usually used only at baptisms, confirmations and at Easter. Is there a problem with him doing this at regular Masses rather than having the congregation recite the Nicene Creed?
 
CindiC said:
I am wondering what the Sacramentary and GIRM state about reciting the Nicene Creed during an ordinary Mass. Our priest seems to like to use the responsorial version that is usually used only at baptisms, confirmations and at Easter. Is there a problem with him doing this at regular Masses rather than having the congregation recite the Nicene Creed?
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cindy,
You should be happy it isn’t the Anathasian Creed 🙂

jean8
 
JMJ_coder said:
What’s wrong with the Athanasian Creed? :confused:
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JMJ,
There is absolutely nothing wrong with this Athanasian Creed. It’'s just the longest one. That was the point I was making. The Aposles Creed and Nicene Creed are both shorter. 🙂

God bless,
jean8

Thanks for the correct spelling. I didn’t think I had it right. 🙂
 
I think (but am not sure) that the priest can choose that option but I haven’t seen it done except when there are baptisms. Maybe someone can cite the GIRM?
 
Claire_from_DE said:
I think (but am not sure) that the priest can choose that option but I haven’t seen it done except when there are baptisms. Maybe someone can cite the GIRM?
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Quote it…
GIRM 2005 USCCB:
**The Importance of Singing **
…]
41. All other things being equal, Gregorian chant holds pride of place because it is proper to the Roman Liturgy. Other types of sacred music, in particular polyphony, are in no way excluded, provided that they correspond to the spirit of the liturgical action and that they foster the participation of all the faithful.50
Since the faithful from different countries come together ever more frequently, it is fitting that they know how to sing together at least some parts of the Ordinary of the Mass in Latin, especially the Creed and the Lord’s Prayer, set to the simpler melodies.51

…]

**The Profession of Faith **
67. The purpose of the Symbolum or Profession of Faith, or Creed, is that the whole gathered people may respond to the word of God proclaimed in the readings taken f rom Sacred Scripture and explained in the Homily and that they may also call to mind
and confess the great mysteries of the faith by reciting the rule of faith in a formula approved for liturgical use, before these mysteries are celebrated in the Eucharist.
  1. The Creed is to be sung or said by the priest together with the people on Sundays and Solemnities. It may be said also at particular celebrations of a more solemn character.
    If it is sung, it is begun by the priest or, if this is appropriate, by a cantor or by the choir. It is sung, however, either by all together or by the people alternating with the choir.
    If not sung, it is to be recited by all together or by two parts of the assembly responding one to the other.
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It’s pretty short, actually, hence the quotation. (69 begins the section on the Prayer of the Faithful…)

Note that #137 says to stand during the creed, and #275 defines the bow required above.
 
That depends very much on what you mean by the “responsorial version” used at Baptisms etc.

At a daily Mass, the creed is generally not said, and should not be added except on special occasions.

The Apostles Creed may be used as a substitute for the Nicene Creed, but ONLY in Masses for Children (that is, Masses attended primarily by young children, and not a regular parish Mass that simply accomodates families.)

Please tell us what you mean by “responsorial version” because the correct answer to your concern depends upon exactly what is being done.

The Creed may be either said or sung/chanted, but the words may never be changed except by approval of the Holy See.
 
FrDavid96 said:
That depends very much on what you mean by the “responsorial version” used at Baptisms etc.

At a daily Mass, the creed is generally not said, and should not be added except on special occasions.

The Apostles Creed may be used as a substitute for the Nicene Creed, but ONLY in Masses for Children (that is, Masses attended primarily by young children, and not a regular parish Mass that simply accomodates families.)
Please tell us what you mean by “responsorial version” because the correct answer to your concern depends upon exactly what is being done.

The Creed may be either said or sung/chanted, but the words may never be changed except by approval of the Holy See.
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In Canada, either the Apostle’s Creed or the Nicene Creed is allowed to be said at Sunday Mass. In most parishes it is the former which is most often recited. And yes, both versions have full approval for use in this country. Also, the Apostle’s Creed is said at virtually every daily Mass I attend at my Cathedral.
 
OK. You got me on that one. I did assume that we were talking about the United States.

Now that you mention it, I do recall hearing that at one time or another… I’m not familiar with the liturgical laws of Canada, so I won’t pretend to address them.

So, allow me to revise my previous post by saying that what I said applies in the U.S.

Having said that, we still need clarification from CindiC on just what she’s talking about. We can’t realy discuss the subject until we know what’s happening, (and where she is!)
 
FrDavid96 said:
OK. You got me on that one. I did assume that we were talking about the United States.

Now that you mention it, I do recall hearing that at one time or another… I’m not familiar with the liturgical laws of Canada, so I won’t pretend to address them.

So, allow me to revise my previous post by saying that what I said applies in the U.S.

Having said that, we still need clarification from CindiC on just what she’s talking about. We can’t realy discuss the subject until we know what’s happening, (and where she is!)
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No problem.🙂 It’s just that there are forum members from other places than the U.S. And often it seems to me that the U.S. posters assume that that what happens in the American Church is necessarily the norm for the rest of the world.
I agree that it is difficult to discuss a subect without knowing all the facts. But hey,there are some people on forums such as this who don’t really care all that much about actual facts.
 
It is interesting to read about the development of those creeds. The idea is to get everything condensed into one statement and the creeds just seem to get longer and longer. It is of note that the Catechism of the Catholic Church seems to be written around the Apostles’ Creed, which is, I believe, the shortest.
 
OriginalJS said:
It is interesting to read about the development of those creeds. The idea is to get everything condensed into one statement and the creeds just seem to get longer and longer. It is of note that the Catechism of the Catholic Church seems to be written around the Apostles’ Creed, which is, I believe, the shortest.
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Yes. It is also interesting that in his book “Introduction to Christianity”, Joseph Ratzinger used the Apostles’ Creed as the basis to understanding the Truths and foundations of our faith.
 
FrDavid96 said:
Having said that, we still need clarification from CindiC on just what she’s talking about. We can’t realy discuss the subject until we know what’s happening, (and where she is!)
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My guess is that CindiC’s priest was doing what my previous pastor liked to do. He liked to use words from the rite of baptism and have the people respond, “I do”/“Amen.”

By this I mean he’d start with the question, “Do you believe in God, the Father Almighty…,” and conclude with statements, “This is our Faith. This is the faith of our Church…”

This pastor used this form at all times of the year (with the exception of when the sprinkling rite was used) whether or not there was a baptism or a rite that called for the renewal of baptismal promises.
 
FrDavid96 said:
That depends very much on what you mean by the “responsorial version” used at Baptisms etc.

At a daily Mass, the creed is generally not said, and should not be added except on special occasions.

The Apostles Creed may be used as a substitute for the Nicene Creed, but ONLY in Masses for Children (that is, Masses attended primarily by young children, and not a regular parish Mass that simply accomodates families.)

Please tell us what you mean by “responsorial version” because the correct answer to your concern depends upon exactly what is being done.

The Creed may be either said or sung/chanted, but the words may never be changed except by approval of the Holy See.
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Is it ok for the priest to say:

For us and our salvation?

Our priest refuses to say

For us men and our salvation.
 
SMHW said:
My guess is that CindiC’s priest was doing what my previous pastor liked to do. He liked to use words from the rite of baptism and have the people respond, “I do”/“Amen.”

By this I mean he’d start with the question, “Do you believe in God, the Father Almighty…,” and conclude with statements, “This is our Faith. This is the faith of our Church…”

This pastor used this form at all times of the year (with the exception of when the sprinkling rite was used) whether or not there was a baptism or a rite that called for the renewal of baptismal promises.
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I’m not sure where you’re located, but that would not be acceptable in the US. Only the Nicene Creed may be used (although the Apostles Creed can be used at Masses for children).
However, if you’re talking about the renewal of Baptismal promises in the Penitential Rite, that’s different.
 
KathleenElsie said:
Is it ok for the priest to say:

For us and our salvation?

Our priest refuses to say

For us men and our salvation.
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No. It is not. The words of the ordinary of the Mass, including the Creed, cannot be changed by the priest or local congregation, regardless of their reason or sentiment.

There are some examples of where the norms specifically say that words may be altered, but the Creed is certainly not one of them.
 
FrDavid96 said:
No. It is not. The words of the ordinary of the Mass, including the Creed, cannot be changed by the priest or local congregation, regardless of their reason or sentiment.

There are some examples of where the norms specifically say that words may be altered, but the Creed is certainly not one of them.
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Thank you for your reply. Please keep our priest and our parish in your prayers.
 
FrDavid96 said:
OK. You got me on that one. I did assume that we were talking about the United States.

Now that you mention it, I do recall hearing that at one time or another… I’m not familiar with the liturgical laws of Canada, so I won’t pretend to address them.
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For years Canada has had an indult to use the Apostles Creed at Mass and it’s almost always used when Mass is celebrated in English. OTOH, I’ve most often heard the Nicene when Mass was celebrated in French.

But IIRC, the rule on the use of the Apostles Creed at Mass has changed and it can now be used instead of the Nicene Creed anywhere.
 
As an aside: The various Eastern Catholic Churches use different translations of the Nicene-Constantinoplian creed.

Some biritual priests tend to use one or the other translation when they shouldn’t.

Here’s the approved translation for the Ruthenian Catholics, for comparison:

I believe in on God, the Father Almighty, creator of heaven and earth, of all things visible and invisible, and in one Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, the only begotten, born of the Father before all ages. Light from light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, one in essence with the Father; through whom all things were made. For us and for our salvation, he came down from heaven, and was incarnate from the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, and became man. He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate, and suffered and was buried. He rose on the third day, according to the scriptures. he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father, and his coming again in Glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom wil have no end. And in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the Creator of Life, who proceeds from the Father. Together with the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified; he spoke through the prophets. In one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church. I profess one baptism for the remission of sins. I expect the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come. Amen. (Byzantine Catholic Metropolitan Church Sui Juris of Pittsburgh, USA, 2006, Divine Liturgies of Our Holy Fathers John Chrysostom and Basil the Great. p. 51)

There are several different translations in use by Catholic priests; the Latin Rite Roman Church is supposed to use the ICEL translation exclusively for english use in the Mass.

You should note that the Ruthenians don’t use the filioque, say “for us and for our salvation” and “one in essence”.
 
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