Reconciliation before a conditional baptism?

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I was baptized when I was nine years old but there is no baptismal certificate and the church I was baptized in no longer exists. My mom remembers they used the Trinitarian formula but refuses to sign any paperwork because she does not agree with my decision to become a Catholic.

The church decided that I will be conditionally baptized because of these conditions… but mostly due to the first two reasons.

The RCIA Director told me that I would not need to go to First Reconciliation because of this.

If my first baptism was valid, would this conditional baptism still remove all sin? And if not, shouldn’t I still be going to reconciliation beforehand?

I don’t want to over-step my RCIA Director, but I don’t want to take my First Communion unworthily.
 
mom2three said:
I was baptized when I was nine years old but there is no baptismal certificate and the church I was baptized in no longer exists. My mom remembers they used the Trinitarian formula but refuses to sign any paperwork because she does not agree with my decision to become a Catholic.

The church decided that I will be conditionally baptized because of these conditions… but mostly due to the first two reasons.

The RCIA Director told me that I would not need to go to First Reconciliation because of this.

If my first baptism was valid, would this conditional baptism still remove all sin? And if not, shouldn’t I still be going to reconciliation beforehand?

I don’t want to over-step my RCIA Director, but I don’t want to take my First Communion unworthily.
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I suppose there are guidelines out there somewhere, but it seems to me the smarter course of action would be 1) conditionally baptize, 2) reconciliation, 3) Eucharist. This is because a non-baptized person cannot receive the other sacraments (thus, if you really weren’t baptized before you couldn’t receive absolution) and, on the other hand, if you were already baptized, the conditional baptism would not, I believe, remove all sins because baptism, and thus its particular effects, can only occur once. Thus in the latter case you would need reconciliation to get a clean slate. I’d welcome other opinions on the matter.
 
mom2three said:
I was baptized when I was nine years old but there is no baptismal certificate and the church I was baptized in no longer exists. My mom remembers they used the Trinitarian formula but refuses to sign any paperwork because she does not agree with my decision to become a Catholic.

The church decided that I will be conditionally baptized because of these conditions… but mostly due to the first two reasons.

The RCIA Director told me that I would not need to go to First Reconciliation because of this.

If my first baptism was valid, would this conditional baptism still remove all sin? And if not, shouldn’t I still be going to reconciliation beforehand?

I don’t want to over-step my RCIA Director, but I don’t want to take my First Communion unworthily.
Click to expand...
If your first Baptism is valid then the conditional Baptism has no effect.

You will need to plan on going to Confession after your Conditional Baptism, but before you receive any of the other Sacraments.

This is why conditional Baptism should take place in private ASAP when it is discovered there is a question as to the validity of a Baptism.
 
Br.Rich_SFO said:
If your first Baptism is valid then the conditional Baptism has no effect.

You will need to plan on going to Confession after your Conditional Baptism, but before you receive any of the other Sacraments.

This is why conditional Baptism should take place in private ASAP when it is discovered there is a question as to the validity of a Baptism.
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I have posed this question with the RCIA director who told me that they do the conditional baptisms at the Easter Vigil. She’s going to ask the parish priest, who also happens to be a canon lawyer.

When I mentioned something to her about this being done in private, she seemd quite surprised by this concept.

What do I do if they want me to do this during Easter Vigil? I would not feel right accepting First Communion before reconciliation.

Is there an official church document that states that this should be done in private and before Easter Vigil?
 
mom2three said:
I have posed this question with the RCIA director who told me that they do the conditional baptisms at the Easter Vigil. She’s going to ask the parish priest, who also happens to be a canon lawyer.

When I mentioned something to her about this being done in private, she seemd quite surprised by this concept.

What do I do if they want me to do this during Easter Vigil? I would not feel right accepting First Communion before reconciliation.

Is there an official church document that states that this should be done in private and before Easter Vigil?
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Church documents assume that people in charge of these programs know what they are doing and can apply the documents in a reasonable manner.

I’m going to go and look but I’m sure that there is not a section on “Conditional Baptism” at the Easter Vigil in the RCIA book.

See National Statutes #37
 
When needed, our pastor gives a conditional absolution before the Vigil and conditional baptism at the Vigil.
 
Joe_Kelley said:
When needed, our pastor gives a conditional absolution before the Vigil and conditional baptism at the Vigil.
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I’m sorry for the Sacrament of Reconciliation there is no such thing as “conditional absolution”!

(nobody bring up Anointing of the Sick and Last Rites because that has nothing to do with this)

Goodness!! Where does this stuff come from?
 
Andreas_Hofer said:
I suppose there are guidelines out there somewhere, but it seems to me the smarter course of action would be 1) conditionally baptize, 2) reconciliation, 3) Eucharist. This is because a non-baptized person cannot receive the other sacraments (thus, if you really weren’t baptized before you couldn’t receive absolution) and, on the other hand, if you were already baptized, the conditional baptism would not, I believe, remove all sins because baptism, and thus its particular effects, can only occur once. Thus in the latter case you would need reconciliation to get a clean slate. I’d welcome other opinions on the matter.
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I have heard that the best way is confession first, then conditional baptism, because confession is an excellent way to prepare for baptism. This was from a pre-Vatican II source, when conditional baptisms for converts were normative, although I don’t remember where I read this (in Radio Replies perhaps). Also, I don’t know if the absolution (or conditional absolution) was done in confession before the conditional baptism, or if the person confessed their sins, was conditionally baptized, and then received absolution.
 
Andreas_Hofer said:
I suppose there are guidelines out there somewhere, but it seems to me the smarter course of action would be 1) conditionally baptize, 2) reconciliation, 3) Eucharist. This is because a non-baptized person cannot receive the other sacraments (thus, if you really weren’t baptized before you couldn’t receive absolution) and, on the other hand, if you were already baptized, the conditional baptism would not, I believe, remove all sins because baptism, and thus its particular effects, can only occur once. Thus in the latter case you would need reconciliation to get a clean slate. I’d welcome other opinions on the matter.
Click to expand...
I have heard that the best way is confession first, then conditional baptism, because confession is an excellent way to prepare for baptism. This was from a pre-Vatican II source, when conditional baptisms for converts were normative, although I don’t remember where I read this (in Radio Replies perhaps). Also, I don’t know if the absolution (or conditional absolution) was done in confession before the conditional baptism, or if the person confessed their sins, was conditionally baptized, and then received absolution.
 
Br.Rich_SFO said:
Church documents assume that people in charge of these programs know what they are doing and can apply the documents in a reasonable manner.

I’m going to go and look but I’m sure that there is not a section on “Conditional Baptism” at the Easter Vigil in the RCIA book.

See National Statutes #37
Click to expand...
Wow… according to National Statutes 31:

“Those baptized persons who have lived as Christians and need only instruction in the Catholic tradition and a degree of probation within the Catholic community should not be asked to undergo a full program parallel to the Catechumenate.”

It also states that such a person can be received “at any time during the year”…

It appears that I didn’t need to go through RCIA at all… ?? Does this sound right? Am I not supposed to be taking part in the rites intended for unbaptized persons (and which rites would those be?)

Why does my parish not seem to follow this? I believe, for the most part, I’m being treated as a Catechumen… though most of us are Candidates… I’ve gone through the Rite of Acceptance and am expected to go through the Rite of Sending and the Rite of Election…

What do I do if they tell me I’m okay to be conditionally baptized at the Easter Vigil Mass and do not require reconciliation prior to receiving the Eucharist?
 
Br.Rich_SFO said:
I’m sorry for the Sacrament of Reconciliation there is no such thing as “conditional absolution”!

(nobody bring up Anointing of the Sick and Last Rites because that has nothing to do with this)

Goodness!! Where does this stuff come from?
Click to expand...
I’ve heard of this conditional absolution before and all over the internet. I’ve even heard it used by an apologist…
 
mom2three said:
Wow… according to National Statutes 31:

“Those baptized persons who have lived as Christians and need only instruction in the Catholic tradition and a degree of probation within the Catholic community should not be asked to undergo a full program parallel to the Catechumenate.”

It also states that such a person can be received “at any time during the year”…

It appears that I didn’t need to go through RCIA at all… ?? Does this sound right? Am I not supposed to be taking part in the rites intended for unbaptized persons (and which rites would those be?)

Why does my parish not seem to follow this? I believe, for the most part, I’m being treated as a Catechumen… though most of us are Candidates… I’ve gone through the Rite of Acceptance and am expected to go through the Rite of Sending and the Rite of Election…

What do I do if they tell me I’m okay to be conditionally baptized at the Easter Vigil Mass and do not require reconciliation prior to receiving the Eucharist?
Click to expand...
Each person has different needs for Catechesis, but generally yes Baptized Christians should not be expected to go through a full year of Catechesis.

Actually when it is determined that a conditional Baptism is necessary. It should take place within a week or so of the determination. That way the person progresses through the Rites as a Baptized Candidate, and NOT a Catechumen.

Many parishes do not follow the Rite or statutes simply because the people running the programs do not know what they are doing or they simply don’t want to and want to create their own program.

As a Candidate you would NOT go through the Rite of Election.

Candidates go through the Rite of Welcome not the Rite of Acceptance. This is also why the validity of Baptism MUST be determined during the Inquiry phase.

You need to show the RCIA person the NS #37 and speak directly with the Pastor about the situation. Remember that Baptism is NECESSARY in order to receive the other Sacraments. If you are certain that you have been Baptized, speak with the pastor and request that you be Conditionally Baptized now and go to Confession before being received into the Church.
 
mom2three said:
Wow… according to National Statutes 31:

“Those baptized persons who have lived as Christians and need only instruction in the Catholic tradition and a degree of probation within the Catholic community should not be asked to undergo a full program parallel to the Catechumenate.”

It also states that such a person can be received “at any time during the year”…

It appears that I didn’t need to go through RCIA at all… ?? Does this sound right? Am I not supposed to be taking part in the rites intended for unbaptized persons (and which rites would those be?)

Why does my parish not seem to follow this? I believe, for the most part, I’m being treated as a Catechumen… though most of us are Candidates… I’ve gone through the Rite of Acceptance and am expected to go through the Rite of Sending and the Rite of Election…
Click to expand...
This is common. When I was in RCIA I was treated just like a catechumen as well. The general guidelines say that parishes are to adapt the catechumenate program in suitable ways for the baptized candidates. In practice this seems to mean that you jump through all the hoops but maybe don’t have to take so long.

Your case interests me because I’m in much the same boat. I was baptized at 18 in a lake by a Baptist pastor and no records were kept. The Episcopal Church wasn’t too picky about it–the rector took my word that I was baptized in the name of the Trinity. If I were to become Catholic I’d have to try to get the pastor to write a letter, and I don’t know if even that would be enough. I did contact him way back when I first considered Catholicism and told him that I might need such a document. He didn’t say he wouldn’t give me one, but I never definitely asked for it at the time and now years have passed.

Anyway, given my record the likelihood I’ll ever become Catholic is very small. . . .

Edwin
 
Contarini said:
This is common. When I was in RCIA I was treated just like a catechumen as well. The general guidelines say that parishes are to adapt the catechumenate program in suitable ways for the baptized candidates. In practice this seems to mean that you jump through all the hoops but maybe don’t have to take so long.

Your case interests me because I’m in much the same boat. I was baptized at 18 in a lake by a Baptist pastor and no records were kept. The Episcopal Church wasn’t too picky about it–the rector took my word that I was baptized in the name of the Trinity. If I were to become Catholic I’d have to try to get the pastor to write a letter, and I don’t know if even that would be enough. I did contact him way back when I first considered Catholicism and told him that I might need such a document. He didn’t say he wouldn’t give me one, but I never definitely asked for it at the time and now years have passed.

Anyway, given my record the likelihood I’ll ever become Catholic is very small. . . .

Edwin
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Don’t let that stop you from becoming a Catholic! My mom admitted I was baptized in the name of the Trinity and just refuses to sign the paper… They can do a conditional baptism if there are no records and no one to attest to it.

I’m going to be doing so myself… it’s just that I want to be sure I’m in a worthy state to receive communion so I want to be sure I get reconciliation beforehand!

God Bless!
 
mom2three said:
I was baptized when I was nine years old but there is no baptismal certificate and the church I was baptized in no longer exists. My mom remembers they used the Trinitarian formula but refuses to sign any paperwork because she does not agree with my decision to become a Catholic.

The church decided that I will be conditionally baptized because of these conditions… but mostly due to the first two reasons.

The RCIA Director told me that I would not need to go to First Reconciliation because of this.

If my first baptism was valid, would this conditional baptism still remove all sin? And if not, shouldn’t I still be going to reconciliation beforehand?

I don’t want to over-step my RCIA Director, but I don’t want to take my First Communion unworthily.
Click to expand...
I am in the same situation, and I look forward to the answers of this thread. Thank you for bringing up the topic. I should have done so before this
 
mom2three said:
Wow… according to National Statutes 31:

“Those baptized persons who have lived as Christians and need only instruction in the Catholic tradition and a degree of probation within the Catholic community should not be asked to undergo a full program parallel to the Catechumenate.”

It also states that such a person can be received “at any time during the year”…

It appears that I didn’t need to go through RCIA at all… ?? Does this sound right? Am I not supposed to be taking part in the rites intended for unbaptized persons (and which rites would those be?)

Why does my parish not seem to follow this? I believe, for the most part, I’m being treated as a Catechumen… though most of us are Candidates… I’ve gone through the Rite of Acceptance and am expected to go through the Rite of Sending and the Rite of Election…

What do I do if they tell me I’m okay to be conditionally baptized at the Easter Vigil Mass and do not require reconciliation prior to receiving the Eucharist?
Click to expand...
Because the number of Parishes that do RCIA the way it is supposed to be done for previously baptized Christians are few and far between. :mad:

It doesn’t matter about your previous baptism, how many years you have been living the Christian life, even if only as a protestant, or anything else. I was dumped into the RCIA with the catecumans. Nobody bothered to find out how much I already knew of the Bible (probably better then 95% of the cafeteria Catholics) or the catechism (ditto).

I tried other churches in my area, all do it this way. If you know of any Churc h or Parish that does it the way it is supposed to be done, let us know. I might consider moving there
 
Andruschak said:
Because the number of Parishes that do RCIA the way it is supposed to be done for previously baptized Christians are few and far between. :mad:

It doesn’t matter about your previous baptism, how many years you have been living the Christian life, even if only as a protestant, or anything else. I was dumped into the RCIA with the catecumans. Nobody bothered to find out how much I already knew of the Bible (probably better then 95% of the cafeteria Catholics) or the catechism (ditto).

I tried other churches in my area, all do it this way. If you know of any Churc h or Parish that does it the way it is supposed to be done, let us know. I might consider moving there
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I think, at this point, I’ll go along with whatever they tell me to do… but I’ll draw the line at the conditional baptism/reconciliation thing. I KNOW I need to go to reconciliation because I’m 99.9% certain my baptism was valid… But I believe I will meet with the priest to talk with him about this. It seems that candidates can go through RCIA like catechumens but they are to be distinguishing between them… It would be nice if my parish could have a better understanding of this by next year…
 
mom2three said:
I think, at this point, I’ll go along with whatever they tell me to do… but I’ll draw the line at the conditional baptism/reconciliation thing. I KNOW I need to go to reconciliation because I’m 99.9% certain my baptism was valid… But I believe I will meet with the priest to talk with him about this.
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That’s a good idea. Make sure he understands that you know you were baptized; it’s just that the paperwork is out of order.
It seems that candidates can go through RCIA like catechumens but they are to be distinguishing between them… It would be nice if my parish could have a better understanding of this by next year…
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Pray hard - and volunteer to help out in whatever capacity they will let you, once you’ve been Confirmed.
 
mom2three said:
Wow… according to National Statutes 31:

“Those baptized persons who have lived as Christians and need only instruction in the Catholic tradition and a degree of probation within the Catholic community should not be asked to undergo a full program parallel to the Catechumenate.”

It also states that such a person can be received “at any time during the year”…

It appears that I didn’t need to go through RCIA at all… ?? Does this sound right? Am I not supposed to be taking part in the rites intended for unbaptized persons (and which rites would those be?)

Why does my parish not seem to follow this? I believe, for the most part, I’m being treated as a Catechumen… though most of us are Candidates… I’ve gone through the Rite of Acceptance and am expected to go through the Rite of Sending and the Rite of Election…

What do I do if they tell me I’m okay to be conditionally baptized at the Easter Vigil Mass and do not require reconciliation prior to receiving the Eucharist?
Click to expand...
In typical modern “say the right thing while letting the wrong thing in the back door language,” RCIA makes it clear that it is not intended for those who are already baptized. It was never envisioned for that and its own documents make it clear that it’s not meant for the purpose. Then, of course, comes the exception that forms the practical rule, “If, however, you DO use this for what we just said you’re not supposed to use it for…” and allows for guidelines governing the use of it for this purpose.

That’s lots of words to say you’re absolutely right. There was no need for you to go through a full RCIA program - if you were already baptized. In fact, the mind of the Church as expressed in its actual pronouncements on the subject is against that very thing. Your case is somewhat trickier since your baptism is in question despite your living as a Christian for so long, but really, the reason for developing RCIA was only for those coming from non-Christian backgrounds, so even though baptism is a big marker of eligibility it’s really not intended for even non-baptized Christians. It was intended for mission territory like Africa and Asia.
 
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