Reconciliation of Christianity and Science?

[jonathanjlinn]

Okay. Two last questions:

Firstly, do you thing there runs the risk of potential negative consequences with this treatment? I.e. most drugs have side effects and risks. Do you believe that the final version, if viable, could have the potential to be damaging, perhaps if more memory recall would be available people could run the risk of severe emotional trauma if their brains could not put certain information aside.

Secondly, how would you collect/create the sperm to be used for this project?

Concluding thoughts: Cool project - certainly interesting the motivation and inspiration behind it. Don’t take this personally, but I just believe that the only Heavenly Manna is the Eucharist. I.e. it’s literally divine in essence, not just a biological good, but rather food for the literal soul (that I believe exists) as opposed to the ‘soul’ in terms of biological brain. I think this would be the generic Catholic response. Hopefully this project does bear good fruit that can be used for treatment of disease - I think we can all agree that would be good.

 

[jomoco]

Okay. Two last questions:

Firstly, do you thing there runs the risk of potential negative consequences with this treatment? I.e. most drugs have side effects and risks. Do you believe that the final version, if viable, could have the potential to be damaging, perhaps if more memory recall would be available people could run the risk of severe emotional trauma if their brains could not put certain information aside.

Secondly, how would you collect/create the sperm to be used for this project?

Concluding thoughts: Cool project - certainly interesting the motivation and inspiration behind it. Don’t take this personally, but I just believe that the only Heavenly Manna is the Eucharist. I.e. it’s literally divine in essence, not just a biological good, but rather food for the literal soul (that I believe exists) as opposed to the ‘soul’ in terms of biological brain. I think this would be the generic Catholic response. Hopefully this project does bear good fruit that can be used for treatment of disease - I think we can all agree that would be good.

The treatment would ideally be autologous, the sperm collected from the person to be treated.

With women the sperm would need to be collected from a blood family member who is an allogeneic match to her bloodtype.

The lab invitro protocols call for the sperm to be incubated in HSA(human serum albumin) and the hormone progesterone for two hours at 37 degrees celsius, after which it is considered fully capacitated and ready for use. Very much like the process protocols used in modern IVF clinics.

The goal we are shooting for after the labwork either proves or disproves the theory, is a clinical trial for treatment of neurodegenerative diseases like ALS, Parkinsons and Huntingtons.

Respectfully,

jomoco

 

[Earnest_Bunbury]

Okay. Two last questions:

Firstly, do you thing there runs the risk of potential negative consequences with this treatment? I.e. most drugs have side effects and risks. Do you believe that the final version, if viable, could have the potential to be damaging, perhaps if more memory recall would be available people could run the risk of severe emotional trauma if their brains could not put certain information aside.

Secondly, how would you collect/create the sperm to be used for this project?

Concluding thoughts: Cool project - certainly interesting the motivation and inspiration behind it. Don’t take this personally, but I just believe that the only Heavenly Manna is the Eucharist. I.e. it’s literally divine in essence, not just a biological good, but rather food for the literal soul (that I believe exists) as opposed to the ‘soul’ in terms of biological brain. I think this would be the generic Catholic response. Hopefully this project does bear good fruit that can be used for treatment of disease - I think we can all agree that would be good.

Not all. The ends do not justify the means and manipulating then injecting sperm to live a better life or to extend life is far from the nature of what sperm is for as well as the nature of man in the current state of progressing toward eternal life.

Of course if the analogy is accurate, it would mean that women are the lambs of god not a man or men.

Good fruit? Absolutely not.

 

[jomoco]

Not all. The ends do not justify the means and manipulating then injecting sperm to live a better life or to extend life is far from the nature of what sperm is for as well as the nature of man in the current state of progressing toward eternal life.
Good fruit? Absolutely not.

You do of course realise that sperm gets injected then capacitated with only one or two of 15 million ever reaching the female egg to form a possible child if everything goes just right in a normal conception?

Gen 7 simply reverses the sequence a bit in that the capacitation happens before injection, and the entire 15 million sperm cells get to find targets of equal number in the blood brain barrier’s many zona occludens?

And if Gen 7 does indeed work, how could it possibly be other than the design finesse of God who made us in His image?

Respectfully,

jomoco

 

[donsnow]

Oh, jomoco,

I can see where such a serum could rather induce insanity to the recipient. A grave risk of unwanted side effect, there.

We, in God’s image, do not have sperm in our brains. That’s a traversity. It’s obviously more from Satan than from God. Only Satan would so take advantage of your, and others’, grief.

God loves you,
Don

 

[jomoco]

Oh, jomoco,

I can see where such a serum could rather induce insanity to the recipient. A grave risk of unwanted side effect, there.

We, in God’s image, do not have sperm in our brains. That’s a traversity. It’s obviously more from Satan than from God. Only Satan would so take advantage of your, and others’, grief.

God loves you,
Don

Hi Don,

Fortunately I have empirical evidence that insanity is not a risk of Gen 7 therapy.

It seems that the Pope and his Cardinals and Bishops have learned their history lessons on the dangers and risks involved in speaking in absolute terms far better than you and a few others here Don.

God was alluding to something in Genesis 3:22, and while I posit that I may know what that something is, I certainly don’t claim to know positively or absolutely by any means.

I’m sure that some Catholics felt as you do about Gen 7 when penicillin was discovered, but quickly recanted when it was either them or their loved ones lives on the line.

Do good Catholics spurn antibiotics these days Don?

You seem rather old testament and wrathful on the one hand, while assuring all that God loves them quite conditionally on the other my friend.

Is that cold metal I’m detecting just beneath your velvet glove?

Best regards,

jomoco

 

[jonathanjlinn]

The treatment would ideally be autologous, the sperm collected from the person to be treated.

Not all. The ends do not justify the means and manipulating then injecting sperm to live a better life or to extend life is far from the nature of what sperm is for as well as the nature of man in the current state of progressing toward eternal life.

Oh I agree Earnest. I was curious about the sperm collection. I assumed masturbation. I thought for a moment that he was considering some type of synthetic sperm as opposed to using donor sperm which took me in a different direction ethically for the moment. But…it seems I would have to release sperm from my body for a non-reproductive aiding purpose. This is a MORTAL sin (a grave matter at the least). No thank you. Again it’s a ‘cool’ project in the sense that it is alluring. But no Catholic could (or should) take part in this type of treatment. Even in a world where this project did work, I think it would be best to be the “old human type” who still used 10% of their brain as opposed to 100% under the heading of humility. Maybe we only use 10% for a reason that God alone knows? Besides think about all the hippies promoting “mind expanding drugs” back in the 70s - look how well that turned out. The Human Evolution by means of science and chemistry movement is antichrist in nature. Really anything that promises great hope for humanity at the cost of something that “seems” innocent enough (but is truly sinful) would be considered antichrist.

Of course if the analogy is accurate, it would mean that women are the lambs of god not a man or men.

I missed this, Thank You.

Also, Penicillin isn’t even in the same category as sperm.

 

[donsnow]

Hi Don,

Fortunately I have empirical evidence that insanity is not a risk of Gen 7 therapy.

It seems that the Pope and his Cardinals and Bishops have learned their history lessons on the dangers and risks involved in speaking in absolute terms far better than you and a few others here Don.

God was alluding to something in Genesis 3:22, and while I posit that I may know what that something is, I certainly don’t claim to know positively or absolutely by any means.

I’m sure that some Catholics felt as you do about Gen 7 when penicillin was discovered, but quickly recanted when it was either them or their loved ones lives on the line.

Do good Catholics spurn antibiotics these days Don?

You seem rather old testament and wrathful on the one hand, while assuring all that God loves them quite conditionally on the other my friend.

Is that cold metal I’m detecting just beneath your velvet glove?

Best regards,

jomoco

Hi, jomoco,

No, we don’t spurn antibiotics.

God has both conditional and unconditional love for His Creation including us.

No, no cold metal inside my glove, just common sense inside my head.

God loves you,
Don

 

[jomoco]

Not all. The ends do not justify the means and manipulating then injecting sperm to live a better life or to extend life is far from the nature of what sperm is for as well as the nature of man in the current state of progressing toward eternal life.
Good fruit? Absolutely not.

Who are you to assume that you know all that God meant sperm to be used for Earnest?

You and your colleagues seem to think there are no hidden mysteries in the bible despite that bible explicitly stating there are, and Jesus Himself exhorting us as good Christians to seek until we find them!

Fortunately I take Jesus’ advice over that of you and your brethren!

Respectful still despite your stones cast,

jomoco

 

[Earnest_Bunbury]

Who are you to assume that you know all that God meant sperm to be used for Earnest?
You and your colleagues seem to think there are no hidden mysteries in the bible despite that bible explicitly stating there are, and Jesus Himself exhorting us as good Christians to seek until we find them!

Fortunately I take Jesus’ advice over that of you and your brethren!
Respectful still despite your stones cast,

jomoco

CCC 354 Respect for laws inscribed in creation and the relations which derive from the nature of things is a principle of wisdom and a foundation for morality.

As a Catholic, I believe the nature of something dictates what is morally responsible as to its function and use.

Enhancement genetic engineering aims at improving certain specific characteristics. The idea of man as “co-creator” with God could be used to try to justify the management of human evolution by means of such genetic engineering. But this would imply that man has full right of disposal over his own biological nature. Changing the genetic identity of man as a human person through the production of an infrahuman being is radically immoral. The use of genetic modification to yield a superhuman or being with essentially new spiritual faculties is unthinkable, given that the spiritual life principle of man – forming the matter into the body of the human person – is not a product of human hands and is not subject to genetic engineering. The uniqueness of each human person, in part constituted by his biogenetic characteristics and developed through nurture and growth, belongs intrinsically to him and cannot be instrumentalized in order to improve some of these characteristics. A man can only truly improve by realizing more fully the image of God in him by uniting himself to Christ and in imitation of him. Such modifications would in any case violate the freedom of future persons who had no part in decisions that determine his bodily structure and characteristics in a significant and possibly irreversible way. Gene therapy, directed to the alleviation of congenital conditions like Down’s syndrome, would certainly affect the identity of the person involved with regard to his appearance and mental gifts, but this modification would help the individual to give full expression to his real identity which is blocked by a defective gene.Source

Your thread stated April 14, 2009 dealing with this same topic is still on this forum. It ended after 5 pages and this too is where I get off. Via con Dios.

 

[jomoco]

As a Catholic, I believe the nature of something dictates what is morally responsible as to its function and use.

Your thread stated April 14, 2009 dealing with this same topic is still on this forum. It ended after 5 pages and this too is where I get off. Via con Dios.

I wondered how long it would be before you abandoned use of the bible’s scripture to rebut me, and start in with the RCC’s doctrines.

How you guys profess to know so much about God’s will, so absolutely, is a mystery to me.

Respectfully,

jomoco

 

[jomoco]

The writings of St Thomas Aquinas tried to reconcile the science of his day to Christianity in my opinion.

Nearly 2,000 years after Aristotle died, only a few of his works on logic survived in Western Europe. But Jewish and Muslim scholars had preserved much of his writing. Starting in the 1100s, scholars in the West began to translate Aristotle’s works from Hebrew and Arabic into Latin, making them available in the new universities that were forming. Along with these translations came extensive commentaries on Aristotle such as those by the Spanish Muslim scholar Averroes.

The rediscovery of Aristotle’s works with their sophisticated explanation of the world based on natural law and reason seemed to challenge the teachings of the Christian faith. At first, the Roman Catholic Church tried to ban his works.

But some church scholars such as Albert the Great at the University of Paris thought it was possible to combine human reason and Christian faith. Thomas Aquinas, an Italian Roman Catholic theologian (religious scholar), devoted his life to this task.

Aquinas was born in 1225, the son of a noble family in the kingdom of Sicily, which included part of the mainland of Italy around Naples. His family sent him at age 5 to the Benedictine monastery of Monte Casino to train as a monk.

Later, Aquinas attended the University of Naples where he first encountered the writings of Aristotle. Against his family’s wishes, he joined the Dominican order at 18, taking a vow of poverty.

In 1245, Aquinas traveled to the University of Paris where a great debate was going on about Aristotle’s ideas. The young Aquinas studied under Albert the Great who sided with those who believed Aristotle’s view of the world was compatible with that of Christianity.

Aquinas came to think that one should believe only what is self-evident (e.g., human beings use reason) or can be deduced from self-evident propositions (e.g., human reason can discover truth).

Aquinas became a Dominican teacher of religion at the University of Paris and in Italy. He continued to study the works of Aristotle and the Muslim commentaries on them.

Aquinas wrote his own commentaries on Aristotle, which included reasoned propositions based on certainties revealed by God. He also wrote summaries of Catholic doctrine that also attempted to combine reason and faith. [End Quote]

Hmmm, Aquinas came to think that one should believe only what is self evident, or can be deduced from self-evident propositions.

It seems that Aquinas and I share the same aspirations, to prove that truth and God can be proven synonymous, in a self evident manner, that is scientifically repeatable.

If this is indeed possible, it will prove God’s designs for all of mankind in a tangible manner that will be hard to refute regardless of religious differences, in my humble opinion.

Respectfully,

jomoco

 

[jomoco]

What scientific facts support the Gen 7 hypothesis other than those I’ve already detailed?

star.tau.ac.il/~eshel/Bio_complexity/Biological%20Background/Neuron-Sperm.pdf

Kinda hard to believe I know, but nevertheless, absolutely true, scientifically speaking.

jomoco

 

[donsnow]

What scientific facts support the Gen 7 hypothesis other than those I’ve already detailed?

star.tau.ac.il/~eshel/Bio_complexity/Biological%20Background/Neuron-Sperm.pdf

Kinda hard to believe I know, but nevertheless, absolutely true, scientifically speaking.

jomoco

No, jomoco,

That paper appeared in a Philosophical, not science, journal. And, it’s just one man’s paper, all his references notwithstanding. Is his paper where you obtained your wild idea?

God loves you,
Don

 

[jomoco]

No, jomoco,

That paper appeared in a Philosophical, not science, journal. And, it’s just one man’s paper, all his references notwithstanding. Is his paper where you obtained your wild idea?

God loves you,
Don

Considering that the paper was published in 2003, and my theory was born in 1979 as described in this thread, and first researched in 1982 by a PhD’d professional, I find your response kinda, steel gloved Don my friend.

Ever read any of Thomas Aquinas’ works in which he teaches us not to fear reason and science because truth is synonymous with God?

Wildly yours Don

jomoco

 

[Ranp]

Originally Posted by jomoco:

Of course if the analogy is accurate, it would mean that women are the lambs of god not a man or men.

Good fruit? Absolutely not.

I fully agree with Earnest. There is only one Lamb of God, the perfect sacrifice, the body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ. And it is this perfect sacrifice offerred during each mass in the holy eucharist. To suggest that humans are the Lamb of God is heresy.

Ranp

 

[jomoco]

I fully agree with Earnest. There is only one Lamb of God, the perfect sacrifice, the body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ. And it is this perfect sacrifice offerred during each mass in the holy eucharist. To suggest that humans are the Lamb of God is heresy.

Ranp

Have you read JP2’s Theology of the Body?

ewtn.com/library/papaldoc/jp2tbind.htm

Talk about an in depth study that zeroes in on the origins and importance of our being created first both male and female as Adam first was, and then having woman created by God with ADAM’s rib!

Now you can dismiss woman as a prime component of the Holy Trinity till you’re blue in the face, but the truth has a way of belittling the mind’s of men, and lending credence to the words of God and His well deserved Glory being acknowledged by all, particularly egotistical men in their all boys clubs, in my humble and flawed opinion ofcourse.

jomoco

 

[Earnest_Bunbury]

(7) The large amount of information available about receptors in neurons provides a strong knowledge base for the future elucidation of the roles of such receptors in spermatogenic cells and sperm. Understanding the functions of these receptors in those male reproductive tract cells could lead to new methods of contraception and male infertility
treatment. Moreover, it is not inconceivable that studies of these receptors in sperm, an easily purified and manipulated cell population, might lead to new information useful to neurobiologists.

It is the above that the nature of what the Creator made sperm for is separated from what these scientists, and seemingly what Mr. Jomoco, wants to do with it. We could very well make an earthly utopia by running roughshod over God’s Creation in our use contrary to the inherent nature God designed it to be. But It would be merely an earthly utopia further separated from God. The Tree of Life was kept from us for a reason, because an eternity of life without God is hell, whether it be on earth or under it.

Mr. Jomoco, if you succeeded in making a serum full of anything that contradicted the nature of that substance intended by God, and it made life here long, pain free, and devoid of any suffering, I would be the first to REJECT it. Why I would do this would be related to the knowledge that this life is not the Kingdom but the path to it, the choice of which is in the acceptance of things in the way God intends and seen in the nature of its substance which is its correct, godly use.

 

[Ranp]

Now you can dismiss woman as a prime component of the Holy Trinity till you’re blue in the face, but the truth has a way of belittling the mind’s of men, and lending credence to the words of God and His well deserved Glory being acknowledged by all, particularly egotistical men in their all boys clubs, in my humble and flawed opinion ofcourse.

Jomoco

The Holy Trinity is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Saying a there is a woman component to the Holy Trinity is heresy. You can quote your theory until you are blue in the face but that will have no affect upon the true of the Holy Trinity. When I seek the truth of the Holy Trinity I turn to the Catholic Church, which the Bible says is the pillar of the truth. I will not come to you for the truth. If there has been belittling of the mind then it seems it has been your mind.

Ran

 

[jomoco]

Golly guys, is this where I get burned at the stake as a heretic?

To deny your own mother’s role in the most self-evident form of the tree of life any of us have ever known, seems a trifle vain and macho to me guys,

My own thoughts are that chief among the attributes that Gen 7 may confer on each treated individual, is the ability to determine truth from lies. Kind of a transparency bomb going off throughout the world that changes mankinds annoying habit of lying, by changing man himself into a wiser man fully convinced that lying is in effect, shooting yourself in the foot before a worldwide audience.

Kinda like truth as a way of life, hidden by God, in the pages of the Bible.

You guys need to seriously consider reading JP2’s Theology of the Body soon. Count how many times the word female is used throughout its entirety.

So I gather the general catholic consensus here is that I’m either a heretic, an anti-christ, or a madman in sore need of a psychiatrist?

Your most willing fool for God,

jomoco