Reconciling Catholic Church teaching and "pro choice" Catholics

[Benadam]

Okay, what does that have to do with the term " Pro-choice". That terms has nothing to do with Catholic theology. If you want a debate to be exclusively theological or morally on abortion than just say " This is thread is a debate those Catholics that are “Pro-choice” BUT ALSO believe that there are moral justifications for some if not all abortions. For we know, there is a position for Pro-Choice Catholics to agree that abortion is morally wrong but that the govt role regarding abortion implicates the policy of limited govt that is fundamental to a democratic-republic."

Okay a long title, but you get the point.

So it is

 

[Caramel]

You have a point. I think the term is a poor choice though considering that everyone is fundamentally pro-choice and anti-choice depending on what is chosen. That mother who drove her car into a lake with her sons inside surely chose to do something that no one would be ‘pro-choice’ about. So the term ‘pro-choice’ is an innapropriate term that implies that those who are not pro-abortion are not pro-choice.
Conversely the term pro-life doesn’t impose a false judgement on people who are pro-abortion because abortion does put an end to life after it has begun living.

I also agree that the term “prochoice” is inaccurate. I use the term “proabortion” or “proabort” in PMs because I believe they are simply more accurate. I use the term “prolife” for myself because it encompasses life from conception to death.

However, I find that people who are proabortion tend to become extremely defensive when they are called “proaborts.” So I grant them that one concession while in my mind I disagree with them. I want to get through to them and if they feel they are being insulted they are not going to respond with anything other than anger. I will admit that I’m finding that my use of the term “prochoice” rankles me to the point that I am slowly changing my own behavior; I now tend to say, “Are you in favor of people obtaining abortions?” and deleting the word “choice” entirely.

I’ve mentioned before that I have two friends who have had abortions. If I called them “proaborts” I don’t think they would be my friends anymore. I believe what they did was murder so I pray for them and try to set an example by my own behavior. BTW neither of them is Catholic.

I think the OP used the term “prochoice” as an invitation to those who call themselves prochoice to participate in this discussion. He may have made a mistake. My own experience is obviously limited. Maybe if the OP used the term “proabort” he might get more responses from his target group. I don’t know. Maybe feeling angry would make more join in. I just don’t know at this point.

 

[Caramel]

From the Priests for Life website: “The Bible clearly teaches that abortion is wrong. This teaching comes across in many ways and for many reasons. Some people point out that the word “abortion” is not in the Bible, and that is true. Nevertheless, the teaching about abortion is there. This is the case with many teachings. The word “Trinity” is not in the Bible, but the teaching about the Trinity is there. In any case, a person who wants to deny the teaching about abortion would deny it even if the word were there.”

I agree with you. The people in the debates I participated in would throw in the Bible thing because they thought it was something I couldn’t debate and it also veered the thread off topic. And they were right - I couldn’t debate passages from the Bible because I didn’t (and still don’t) know it that well. In fact I never even brought up the Bible but some other posters did. And as the forum was fairly small and I’d been on it for years everyone knew I would also join in any debate about the Catholic Church.

But these people didn’t believe in God. They admitted it. I still think they were from Planned Parenthood and they got their responses from material provided by PP. I used biology and that didn’t work either because they would resort to ad hominem attacks which shows how desperate they were.

 

[beafedor]

I’ve mentioned before that I have two friends who have had abortions. If I called them “proaborts” I don’t think they would be my friends anymore. I believe what they did was murder so I pray for them and try to set an example by my own behavior. BTW neither of them is Catholic.

See the paradox here:
Those who call themselves “pro-choice” are really pro abort in denial, most likely will never choose abortion for themselves. They are seduced by some political ideas of some sort like Bill Clinton’s statement “making abortion rare” in the nineties.

Your two friends, on the other hand, are post-abortive not pro abortion. Abortion is always a tragedy, and nobody chooses abortion because of some political ideas.

“No woman wants an abortion as she wants an ice cream cone or a Porsche. She wants an abortion as an animal caught in a trap wants to gnaw off its own leg." (Frederica Mathewes-Green)

To understand the tragic circumstances and devastating aftermath of abortion, please read some testimonies on the Silent No More Awareness website: silentnomoreawareness.org/

You can do more than pray for your friends: show compassion to them because chances are, their abortions are still affecting them greatly. Give them information about an abortion recovery program such as Rachel’s Vineyard Retreat rachelsvineyard.org/ There are many other resources and books listed on the Silent No More website. God Bless you, thank you for praying for them.

 

[gakroeger]

See the paradox here:
Those who call themselves “pro-choice” are really pro abort in denial, most likely will never choose abortion for themselves. They are seduced by some political ideas of some sort like Bill Clinton’s statement “making abortion rare” in the nineties.

Your two friends, on the other hand, are post-abortive not pro abortion. Abortion is always a tragedy, and nobody chooses abortion because of some political ideas.

“No woman wants an abortion as she wants an ice cream cone or a Porsche. She wants an abortion as an animal caught in a trap wants to gnaw off its own leg." (Frederica Mathewes-Green)

To understand the tragic circumstances and devastating aftermath of abortion, please read some testimonies on the Silent No More Awareness website: silentnomoreawareness.org/

You can do more than pray for your friends: show compassion to them because chances are, their abortions are still affecting them greatly. Give them information about an abortion recovery program such as Rachel’s Vineyard Retreat rachelsvineyard.org/ There are many other resources and books listed on the Silent No More website. God Bless you, thank you for praying for them.

Great post…

Thank you beafedor

 

[Benadam]

I
I think the OP used the term “prochoice” as an invitation to those who call themselves prochoice to participate in this discussion. He may have made a mistake. My own experience is obviously limited. Maybe if the OP used the term “proabort” he might get more responses from his target group. I don’t know. Maybe feeling angry would make more join in. I just don’t know at this point.

I appreciate gakroeger’s efforts. Organizing threads in a way that parallel’s the Church’s current direction offers a venue of participation and communion that may in the end contribute to the culture of life in ways we can’t imagine. Like the butterfly that flaps it’s wings in New York kinda thing.

In regards of the term ‘pro-choice’;

I think attaching the term ‘pro-choice’ to Catholics that believe abortion is permissable is good because most pro-abortion Catholics would also lack understanding of the Church’s teaching on freedom. So it would offer a teaching moment.

 

[Caramel]

See the paradox here:
Those who call themselves “pro-choice” are really pro abort in denial, most likely will never choose abortion for themselves. They are seduced by some political ideas of some sort like Bill Clinton’s statement “making abortion rare” in the nineties.

Your two friends, on the other hand, are post-abortive not pro abortion. Abortion is always a tragedy, and nobody chooses abortion because of some political ideas.

“No woman wants an abortion as she wants an ice cream cone or a Porsche. She wants an abortion as an animal caught in a trap wants to gnaw off its own leg." (Frederica Mathewes-Green)

To understand the tragic circumstances and devastating aftermath of abortion, please read some testimonies on the Silent No More Awareness website: silentnomoreawareness.org/

You can do more than pray for your friends: show compassion to them because chances are, their abortions are still affecting them greatly. Give them information about an abortion recovery program such as Rachel’s Vineyard Retreat rachelsvineyard.org/ There are many other resources and books listed on the Silent No More website. God Bless you, thank you for praying for them.

I agree that most women think and think and think about having abortions. And it may be harder for Catholics. I once met a girl who had been raped and had become pregnant. She was prolife and Catholic. But she became so depressed about her horrific experience that she was hospitalized and was forcibly injected with anti-psychotic medications, which in turn (probably) caused extreme birth defects in her unborn child. She was Catholic and she was prolife and she was carrying a baby that modern science told her was going to be born dead or profoundly deformed. At this point she lost it completely and was again hospitalized. I don’t know what happened to her or her baby. It was like she had so much against her: the rape, the unwanted pregnancy, the high probability of deformity in her child. There was no easy answer here yet I would still say that abortion would be wrong in this case. This was a long time ago but I still think about her and pray for her and her child.

It’s weird but once I did mention abortion to one of my friends and I could see, really see a brick wall go up in front of her. That was one of the strangest things that has ever happened to me. It was like people who see auras. I saw that wall!! She has put herself behind a strong layer of protection and she still professes to be proabortion. In fact she voted for Obama because of his stand on abortion.

I’ve lost touch with my other friend and I miss her so much!! I think I could have made some headway with her because we were best friends and loved each other and could have talked about anything. I didn’t bring abortion up - she did. But I was wrapped up in my own problems at the time and I couldn’t (or maybe I was being selfish and just didn’t) help her. We lost touch 15 years ago and although I’ve tried to find her I’ve been unsuccessful. When she had her abortion a clinic worker handed her her dead baby and said, “This is your son.” That was extremely cruel. She may be prolife now.

And yet the people I debated with said there has never been an adverse reaction to abortion. No one has ever been depressed about it. I knew that could not be true but at the time I didn’t know how to refute it. Now I do.

One of them went so far as to say that Jeanine Garafolo (sp?) is prochoice; ergo we should all be prochoice. Now I know who that person is but why they used her as an example I will never know. Bizarre thinking. People grab onto anything they can when they are falling.

 

[Whitacre_Girl]

I agree that most women think and think and think about having abortions. And it may be harder for Catholics. I once met a girl who had been raped and had become pregnant. She was prolife and Catholic. But she became so depressed about her horrific experience that she was hospitalized and was forcibly injected with anti-psychotic medications, which in turn (probably) caused extreme birth defects in her unborn child. She was Catholic and she was prolife and she was carrying a baby that modern science told her was going to be born dead or profoundly deformed. At this point she lost it completely and was again hospitalized. I don’t know what happened to her or her baby. It was like she had so much against her: the rape, the unwanted pregnancy, the high probability of deformity in her child. There was no easy answer here yet I would still say that abortion would be wrong in this case. This was a long time ago but I still think about her and pray for her and her child.

I am so sorry to hear about this. I came from a christian university that was extremely conservative. If a man and woman were caught having sex, both would be expelled. The problem is, not everyone was having sex where they’d get caught. Some women got pregnant from this, and would refuse to name the father of the child so that they BOTH didn’t get expelled. A lot of women would get booted, while the men were allowed to stay. It was a horrible injustice. But it made a lot of us think, and realize that there had to be SO many women on our campus who were getting abortions. We knew most of them were or at some point had been sexually active, the problem is they couldn’t tell anyone and get help. Even if you went to the school’s counsellor and said that you were pregnant, or you were seeking help after an abortion, they reported you and you were booted. It was like the gestapo. I remember my then boyfriend (now husband) and I were talking in the car in the parking lot about our commitment to wait until marriage (and we did, by the way) but we got on the topic of “what if we mess up and I get pregnant.” We sat in a stone cold silence for a while realizing that if we made a mistake and slept together and pregnancy resulted we found how suddenly both of us thought about abortion…and we are some of the most AVIDLY prolife people we know!! It made us realize how many chrisitan women are probably getting abortions. It was scary.

And yet the people I debated with said there has never been an adverse reaction to abortion. No one has ever been depressed about it. I knew that could not be true but at the time I didn’t know how to refute it. Now I do.

Every time I hear this, I absolutely lose it. I have to be honest, its the only thing that can be thrown out in a debate where I have to leave the room, leave the thread, what have you. My mother got an abortion when she was 15. I am ashamed to say that she never really told me this (before I found out about it anyway), but I found it in her diary that she had left open on a table when I was a teenager. Yes, it violated her trust, but because I learned that I was able to forgive my mother for what she has done to me over the years. See, I saw that she had written that, and I then read the whole darn thing.

See, my mom has been a raging alcoholic as long a I have known her. She had a very life threatening disease from drug use, she was abusive (physically) when she was drunk, and I am sorry to say, I feel she utterly ruined my childhood. I couldn’t have friends over, I was getting bruises from “running into doors.” that made teachers think I was a total ditz, and…well it was just awful. I was never able to forgive her for that, and I hated her.

Then I read this entry. Apparently things for her were totally fine. Her mom was a little crazy, but other than that things were pretty average. When she was 15 she slept with a guy (big mistake, she admits) and got pregnant. Her brother (my uncle, who I have never got a long with) talked her into the abortion, and took her to the clinic. Every time she said she had doubts, he reassured her that having the baby (my SIBLING!!!) would ruin her life. Not long after she started using very hardcore drugs, sleeping with men for drugs, contracted 2 different STDs, and started staying drunk almost all the time. She tried to clean up a little when she met my dad, but it was only for a few years while she was pregnant with my brother and I, then she started back into the alcohol again. She had severe depression, anxiety, and a host of other metal problems.

I asked her about it not long ago, and she broke down in tears confessing that yes she had the abortion, and it has haunted her her whole life. She thought she had dealt with it, but even now about 35 years after the fact it still bothers her. I told her that it seems all of this was pinned right back at the time she got the abortion. She told me that she has no doubt that was the catalyst.

Abortion ruined my mom’s life. Which it turned screwed up my childhood and my brother’s. I have a sibling I will NEVER meet this side of heaven. Any time anyone tries to tell me that abortion is good and doesn’t hurt anyone I have to leave. It DOES hurt, and it destoys families. There has never been, nor will there ever be a greater evil than abortion.

 

[Caramel]

See the paradox here:
Those who call themselves “pro-choice” are really pro abort in denial, most likely will never choose abortion for themselves. They are seduced by some political ideas of some sort like Bill Clinton’s statement “making abortion rare” in the nineties.

Your two friends, on the other hand, are post-abortive not pro abortion. Abortion is always a tragedy, and nobody chooses abortion because of some political ideas.

“No woman wants an abortion as she wants an ice cream cone or a Porsche. She wants an abortion as an animal caught in a trap wants to gnaw off its own leg." (Frederica Mathewes-Green)

I tried to edit my post but missed the deadline. I never meant to leave the impression that I don’t have compassion for women who have had abortions; on the contrary, I really do feel for them. It’s like the bumper sticker: “Abortion: One Dead, One Maimed.” I don’t believe that most women make a conscious choice to “murder” their own child; I put the blame on greedy doctors and a very bad decision by a (highly divided) Supreme Court. If I left that impression I apologize. Because I know how difficult it is.

This is extremely personal but I’m going to post it anyway. When I was four months pregnant with my son I went through an absolutely terrible experience. The only thing I can think of that would have been worse would have been for my child and me to have been shot and killed. I don’t want to go into more detail about the tragedy. I was hospitalized because I was in shock.

When I was in the hospital I refused to eat. I knew I was pregnant and I didn’t want my child to die but I would not eat or drink anything. After a few days I was put on IV and was told that if I pulled the IV out I would be restrained and the IV put back in. I lost weight. Lots of weight. This behavior put my unborn child at great risk and I don’t know why I was not eating, even to this day when my son is 26 years old. In my eighth month I gained 22 lbs and that sort of made up for the weight loss but my son almost died at birth and although there were factors that I couldn’t control, my refusal to eat put him at risk of dying before birth. Believe me, I know that it is a hard decision.

 

[Worthy5]

Quote IWhitacre_Girl It was like the gestapo…

And we want the police power of the Govt involved in this?

 

[jmcrae]

Actually, the contention would not be that the embryo is not human, that would be silly. It’s not magically a cat or a horse. It is that there is no life or soul yet.

And yet, the child grows, and develops, and moves around, just as if she were a living being.

The soul is the animating force that prevents the body from decaying and ultimately becoming dirt. Human souls are rational and eternal. That human souls can be rational and eternal is certainly a theological debate, but whether or not the animating force exists is observable, and easy enough to document.

Can the animating force start off non-human, and later become human? It seems incredibly unscientific to think so.

 

[Caramel]

I am so sorry to hear about this. I came from a christian university that was extremely conservative. If a man and woman were caught having sex, both would be expelled. The problem is, not everyone was having sex where they’d get caught. Some women got pregnant from this, and would refuse to name the father of the child so that they BOTH didn’t get expelled. A lot of women would get booted, while the men were allowed to stay. It was a horrible injustice. But it made a lot of us think, and realize that there had to be SO many women on our campus who were getting abortions. We knew most of them were or at some point had been sexually active, the problem is they couldn’t tell anyone and get help. Even if you went to the school’s counsellor and said that you were pregnant, or you were seeking help after an abortion, they reported you and you were booted. It was like the gestapo. I remember my then boyfriend (now husband) and I were talking in the car in the parking lot about our commitment to wait until marriage (and we did, by the way) but we got on the topic of “what if we mess up and I get pregnant.” We sat in a stone cold silence for a while realizing that if we made a mistake and slept together and pregnancy resulted we found how suddenly both of us thought about abortion…and we are some of the most AVIDLY prolife people we know!! It made us realize how many chrisitan women are probably getting abortions. It was scary.

Every time I hear this, I absolutely lose it. I have to be honest, its the only thing that can be thrown out in a debate where I have to leave the room, leave the thread, what have you. My mother got an abortion when she was 15. I am ashamed to say that she never really told me this (before I found out about it anyway), but I found it in her diary that she had left open on a table when I was a teenager. Yes, it violated her trust, but because I learned that I was able to forgive my mother for what she has done to me over the years. See, I saw that she had written that, and I then read the whole darn thing.

See, my mom has been a raging alcoholic as long a I have known her. She had a very life threatening disease from drug use, she was abusive (physically) when she was drunk, and I am sorry to say, I feel she utterly ruined my childhood. I couldn’t have friends over, I was getting bruises from “running into doors.” that made teachers think I was a total ditz, and…well it was just awful. I was never able to forgive her for that, and I hated her.

Then I read this entry. Apparently things for her were totally fine. Her mom was a little crazy, but other than that things were pretty average. When she was 15 she slept with a guy (big mistake, she admits) and got pregnant. Her brother (my uncle, who I have never got a long with) talked her into the abortion, and took her to the clinic. Every time she said she had doubts, he reassured her that having the baby (my SIBLING!!!) would ruin her life. Not long after she started using very hardcore drugs, sleeping with men for drugs, contracted 2 different STDs, and started staying drunk almost all the time. She tried to clean up a little when she met my dad, but it was only for a few years while she was pregnant with my brother and I, then she started back into the alcohol again. She had severe depression, anxiety, and a host of other metal problems.

I asked her about it not long ago, and she broke down in tears confessing that yes she had the abortion, and it has haunted her her whole life. She thought she had dealt with it, but even now about 35 years after the fact it still bothers her. I told her that it seems all of this was pinned right back at the time she got the abortion. She told me that she has no doubt that was the catalyst.

Abortion ruined my mom’s life. Which it turned screwed up my childhood and my brother’s. I have a sibling I will NEVER meet this side of heaven. Any time anyone tries to tell me that abortion is good and doesn’t hurt anyone I have to leave. It DOES hurt, and it destoys families. There has never been, nor will there ever be a greater evil than abortion.

I was going to cut off part of your message because it’s long but I can’t. Your post brought me to a halt. I am so sorry about your mother and your other experiences. Wow, I really don’t know what to say. I’m sad for you and I’m proud of you at the same time. Thank you for sharing that!!

 

[Caramel]

See the paradox here:
Those who call themselves “pro-choice” are really pro abort in denial, most likely will never choose abortion for themselves. They are seduced by some political ideas of some sort like Bill Clinton’s statement “making abortion rare” in the nineties.

Your two friends, on the other hand, are post-abortive not pro abortion. Abortion is always a tragedy, and nobody chooses abortion because of some political ideas.

“No woman wants an abortion as she wants an ice cream cone or a Porsche. She wants an abortion as an animal caught in a trap wants to gnaw off its own leg." (Frederica Mathewes-Green)

I tried to edit my post but missed the deadline. I never meant to leave the impression that I don’t have compassion for women who have had abortions; on the contrary, I really do feel for them. It’s like the bumper sticker: “Abortion: One Dead, One Maimed.” I don’t believe that most women make a conscious choice to “murder” their own child; I put the blame on greedy doctors and a very bad decision by a (highly divided) Supreme Court. If I left that impression I apologize. Because I know how difficult it is.

This is extremely personal but I’m going to post it anyway. When I was four months pregnant with my son I went through an absolutely terrible experience. The only thing I can think of that would have been worse would have been for my child and me to have been shot and killed. I don’t want to go into more detail about the tragedy. I was hospitalized because I was in shock.

When I was in the hospital I refused to eat. I knew I was pregnant and I didn’t want my child to die but I would not eat or drink anything. After a few days I was put on IV and was told that if I pulled the IV out I would be restrained and the IV put back in. I lost weight. Lots of weight. This behavior put my unborn child at great risk and I don’t know why I was not eating, even to this day when my son is 26 years old. In my eighth month I gained 22 lbs and that sort of made up for the weight loss but my son almost died at birth and although there were factors that I couldn’t control, my refusal to eat put him at risk of dying before birth. Believe me, I know that it is a hard decision.

 

[Caramel]

Well, it seems pretty obvious that if you conform to the Catechism that you cannot be pro-choice.

You cannot take away the biological argument and still have a debate. Those who are pro-choice fundamentally disagree with Catechism 2270.

“Human life must be respected and protected absolutely from the moment of conception. From the first moment of his existence, a human being must be recognized as having the rights of a person - among which is the inviolable right of every innocent being to life.”

In addition, the CC also does not have any proof that an embryo is human from conception. The CC believes it and has very good reasons for believing it but there is no actual proof.

This is where the discuss would need to start, IMHO.

What would you consider to be “proof?”

 

[jmcrae]

In addition, the CC also does not have any proof that an embryo is human from conception.

Is there some possibility that the embryo found growing naturally in a human mother could be something other than a human embryo?

 

[Christopher68]

I also agree that the term “prochoice” is inaccurate. I use the term “proabortion” or “proabort” in PMs because I believe they are simply more accurate. I use the term “prolife” for myself because it encompasses life from conception to death.

However, I find that people who are proabortion tend to become extremely defensive when they are called “proaborts.” So I grant them that one concession while in my mind I disagree with them. I want to get through to them and if they feel they are being insulted they are not going to respond with anything other than anger. I will admit that I’m finding that my use of the term “prochoice” rankles me to the point that I am slowly changing my own behavior; I now tend to say, “Are you in favor of people obtaining abortions?” and deleting the word “choice” entirely.

I’ve mentioned before that I have two friends who have had abortions. If I called them “proaborts” I don’t think they would be my friends anymore. I believe what they did was murder so I pray for them and try to set an example by my own behavior. BTW neither of them is Catholic.

I think the OP used the term “prochoice” as an invitation to those who call themselves prochoice to participate in this discussion. He may have made a mistake. My own experience is obviously limited. Maybe if the OP used the term “proabort” he might get more responses from his target group. I don’t know. Maybe feeling angry would make more join in. I just don’t know at this point.

You are likely correct in that your two friends who have had abortions would no longer consider you a friend if you called them a ‘pro-abort’. So if you are engaging someone in a serious and legitimate discussion on this topic, why would you want to use language that immediately puts them on the defensive? Calling someone ‘pro abortion’ instead of ‘pro choice’ is an immediate way for them to tune out everything further that you have to say. You may feel better about yourself (and you may feel that the language is representative of their position), but you aren’t going to convert anyone with that kind of tact. What if the other side used similar language? What if they asked you - why do you hate women? Or - why are you a religious nutjob? You would rightly feel they were distorting your position, and that this was perhaps someone unable to engage in a serious discussion. Look at the bigger picture here - in your discussions with people on this topic, are you merely trying to win an argument, or are you trying to gain a convert?

 

[beafedor]

My mother got an abortion when she was 15. I am ashamed to say that she never really told me this (before I found out about it anyway), but I found it in her diary that she had left open on a table when I was a teenager. Yes, it violated her trust, but because I learned that I was able to forgive my mother for what she has done to me over the years. See, I saw that she had written that, and I then read the whole darn thing.

See, my mom has been a raging alcoholic as long a I have known her. She had a very life threatening disease from drug use, she was abusive (physically) when she was drunk, and I am sorry to say, I feel she utterly ruined my childhood. I couldn’t have friends over, I was getting bruises from “running into doors.” that made teachers think I was a total ditz, and…well it was just awful. I was never able to forgive her for that, and I hated her.

Then I read this entry. Apparently things for her were totally fine. Her mom was a little crazy, but other than that things were pretty average. When she was 15 she slept with a guy (big mistake, she admits) and got pregnant. Her brother (my uncle, who I have never got a long with) talked her into the abortion, and took her to the clinic. Every time she said she had doubts, he reassured her that having the baby (my SIBLING!!!) would ruin her life. Not long after she started using very hardcore drugs, sleeping with men for drugs, contracted 2 different STDs, and started staying drunk almost all the time. She tried to clean up a little when she met my dad, but it was only for a few years while she was pregnant with my brother and I, then she started back into the alcohol again. She had severe depression, anxiety, and a host of other metal problems.

I asked her about it not long ago, and she broke down in tears confessing that yes she had the abortion, and it has haunted her her whole life. She thought she had dealt with it, but even now about 35 years after the fact it still bothers her. I told her that it seems all of this was pinned right back at the time she got the abortion. She told me that she has no doubt that was the catalyst.

Abortion ruined my mom’s life. Which it turned screwed up my childhood and my brother’s. I have a sibling I will NEVER meet this side of heaven. Any time anyone tries to tell me that abortion is good and doesn’t hurt anyone I have to leave. It DOES hurt, and it destoys families. There has never been, nor will there ever be a greater evil than abortion.

Thank you SO MUCH for sharing your heart with us. You and your Mom need healing. Rachel’s Vineyard Retreat has helped me tremendously to forgive myself for my abortions. rachelsvineyard.org/

Unfortunately, this is a typical sibling testimony that you can read on Silent No More Awareness website. Siblings are hurt as much as their mothers.

If more people would listen to real abortion testimonies, nobody would support abortion. My heart and my prayers go with you. You can contact me anytime (greenville@silentnomoreawareness.org)

 

[Whitacre_Girl]

And we want the police power of the Govt involved in this?

I think you missed the point of my post entirely…

 

[Worthy5]

I think you missed the point of my post entirely…

No, I think I picked out the most important point—the danger of concentrated power.

 

[Whitacre_Girl]

Thank you SO MUCH for sharing your heart with us. You and your Mom need healing. Rachel’s Vineyard Retreat has helped me tremendously to forgive myself for my abortions. rachelsvineyard.org/

Unfortunately, this is a typical sibling testimony that you can read on Silent No More Awareness website. Siblings are hurt as much as their mothers.

If more people would listen to real abortion testimonies, nobody would support abortion. My heart and my prayers go with you. You can contact me anytime (greenville@silentnomoreawareness.org)

Thank you for this, and thank you Caramel.

I think too often we get caught up in the legal debate and debate of how it affects the unborn child, but we don’t see how it affects mothers, fathers, and siblings. I have to admit as a sibling of an aborted child it creates a rift between mother and child. It’s hard to see your mother in the same way when you hear that she did that to your sibling. I learned about her abortion before I was remotely concerned about “prolife” or “prochoice” issues. It makes you think.

It helps me forgive my mother now that I know what she did, and how that drove her to do what she did.

As to the gestapo comment left by Worthy, I feel I have to address that more. I was talking about the school monitoring all its students’ sexual activity so that no one could go to ANYONE for help even dealing with temptation! You say that the government would be the same, but this brings us into legal ramifications if abortion would be criminalized. It’s not done to lock women up, it’d be done to lock DOCTORS up who would do such a terrible thing, and provide a way to get these women to seek help!!! YES I want to government to legislate on this! THeir job is to legislate against harm, and EVERY TIME ab abotion is done, the ramifications of it destroy trust, relationships, families and LIFE. It’s even worse than the homicide that is committed by col-blooded murders because it turns women against their children, men against their wives, and children against parent. It is evil. Absolute evil, and HAS to be stopped.