Reconciling Catholic Church teaching and "pro choice" Catholics

[gakroeger]

More encouragement to continue the good fight.

 

[zamboni]

Your long lost questions were answered and dismissed way back where they were posted.

Why do you not show where my opening questions were supposedly answered? I am having some difficulty in finding the time one should have to dedicate toward discussing these issues with as many members as those who have had the courage to address me directly… which I appreciate, especially when those responses seldom but sometimes include opinions and verifiable facts I can work with. Meanwhile, of course I have noticed while responding to those braver members that one or two other members appear to be talking to a wall while they may be intending or hoping to challenge me indirectly. I’ll try to make time for anyone who has the courage to challenge me directly, but even then I do not think anyone should be expected to persevere indefinitely in a discussion they are being consistently misrepresented.

So, once again I will ask you, gakroeger, to put your dough where the OP’s mouth should been from the beginning of this thread, if you will now, by showing me where my original Catechism questions were answered. Meantime, allow me to show you the words you gave to copp-out instead of answering my original questions yourself, which you did in post #383, saying:

Hello zamboni

Sorry, I have an aversion to beating my head against a wall. I don’t think after our short discussion anything meaningful can come from further bantering with you.

 

[Caramel]

zamboni;:

I get the feeling that you, like others here, must perceive a dire need to put words in my mouth that I am not actually saying, which appears to be the most widely preferred method to dismiss that which is really being said and asked.

What are you talking about? I’m not trying to put words in your mouth. I don’t know about anyone else, but I certainly am not.

Here again you are putting words in my mouth, this time echoing some words originally placed there by CPA estebob, who, incidentally, is failing my audit of his words with flying colors.

How is this putting words in your mouth? I told you how I felt; I expressed my emotions. I tried to answer your question. I was never trying to attack you. As far as my reply to estesbob, as a member of this forum I am allowed to agree with another member. I was not echoing his words - I was adding to them and I wasn’t even thinking about you.

 

[gakroeger]

Why do you not show where my opening questions were supposedly answered? I am having some difficulty in finding the time one should have to dedicate toward discussing these issues with as many members as those who have had the courage to address me directly… which I appreciate, especially when those responses seldom but sometimes include opinions and verifiable facts I can work with. Meanwhile, of course I have noticed while responding to those braver members that one or two other members appear to be talking to a wall while they may be intending or hoping to challenge me indirectly. I’ll try to make time for anyone who has the courage to challenge me directly, but even then I do not think anyone should be expected to persevere indefinitely in a discussion they are being consistently misrepresented.

So, once again I will ask you, gakroeger, to put your dough where the OP’s mouth should been from the beginning of this thread, if you will now, by showing me where my original Catechism questions were answered. Meantime, allow me to show you the words you gave to copp-out instead of answering my original questions yourself, which you did in post #383, saying:

Originally Posted by gakroeger
Hello zamboni

Sorry, I have an aversion to beating my head against a wall. I don’t think after our short discussion anything meaningful can come from further bantering with you.

Thanks for reminding me. I think I was right the first time…

 

[zamboni]

What are you talking about? I’m not trying to put words in your mouth. I don’t know about anyone else, but I certainly am not.

How is this putting words in your mouth? I told you how I felt; I expressed my emotions. I tried to answer your question. I was never trying to attack you. As far as my reply to estesbob, as a member of this forum I am allowed to agree with another member. I was not echoing his words - I was adding to them and I wasn’t even thinking about you.

Since the OP is seconding his own motion to copp out, why should I not be willing to continue with you, Caramel? Actually, there is one question in particular that I have been meaning to ask you.

I think you identify yourself as being a member of the Army of God. May I ask if you are you a member of the same Army of God that apparently condones the murder of abortion doctors?

As reported here: thestar.blogs.com/broadsides/2009/11/market-values.html#comments

Army of God official website found here: armyofgod.com/

 

[estesbob]

I think this is covered by “Thou shalt not lie,” but the vast majority of responses I see in this thread, which estebob’s above quoted response is typical of, makes me think there should be an eleventh commandment that says “Thou shalt not play Monday morning quarterback with conception issues.”

Same original commandment should also cover putting words into other people’s mouths which they are not saying, estebob.

I have no idea what you are talking about/. There is no monday morning quarterbacking , puting words in people’s mouths or “lies”. The Churchs teaching on abortion is crystal clear. One can not reconcile being pro-choice with catholic teaching. I know this makes you an Worthy5 uncomfortable but the truth is the truth no matter how uncomfortable it makes us.

 

[estesbob]

Since the OP is seconding his own motion to copp out, why should I not be willing to continue with you, Caramel? Actually, there is one question in particular that I have been meaning to ask you.

I think you identify yourself as being a member of the Army of God. May I ask if you are you a member of the same Army of God that apparently condones the murder of abortion doctors?

As reported here: thestar.blogs.com/broadsides/2009/11/market-values.html#comments

Army of God official website found here: armyofgod.com/

More misdirection. The Church teaches that killing Abortio Doctors is a grevious sin. No one here supports it.

 

[zamboni]

I think the following song tells the story of the failure of the anti-choice movement. But like all poetry it uses metaphors, so I am sure there will be people who will automatically object to my interpretation of this song… which I offer only to augment the evidence I have offered from many spiritual and academic sources. If anyone would like to take an easy listening break then why not imagine that the “mountain people” referred to in this song are the pro-choice movement and the “valley people” are anti-choice movement or maybe just “Army of God.com” type of anti-choicers. The “gold,” also called “buried treasure” in the song, represents the combined reproductive ability of men and women in my interpretation. The “one tin soldier,” according to my reckoning of the metaphors, is obviously the guy who murdered the abortion doctor with the blessing of the Army of God.
listen.grooveshark.com/#/song/One_Tin_Soldier_vinly_/11178253

 

[estesbob]

I think the following song tells the story of the failure of the anti-choice movement. But like all poetry it uses metaphors, so I am sure there will be people who will automatically object to my interpretation of this song… which I offer only to augment the evidence I have offered from many spiritual and academic sources. If anyone would like to take an easy listening break then why not imagine that the “mountain people” referred to in this song are the pro-choice movement and the “valley people” are anti-choice movement or maybe just “Army of God.com” type of anti-choicers. The “gold,” also called “buried treasure” in the song, represents the combined reproductive ability of men and women in my interpretation. The “one tin soldier,” according to my reckoning of the metaphors, is obviously the guy who murdered the abortion doctor with the blessing of the Army of God.
listen.grooveshark.com/#/song/One_Tin_Soldier_vinly_/11178253

Wheter the pro-life movement fails or not is irelevant as to whether one can reconcile being pro-choice with the teachings fo the Church.

As far as whether the pro-life movement being a failure tell that to those who forced the Stupak amendment on a releuctant Democrat congress.

 

[Worthy5]

I have no idea what you are talking about/. There is no monday morning quarterbacking , puting words in people’s mouths or “lies”. The Churchs teaching on abortion is crystal clear. One can not reconcile being pro-choice with catholic teaching. I know this makes you an Worthy5 uncomfortable but the truth is the truth no matter how uncomfortable it makes us.

npatrol:kpeople:

Okay people, this poster has un-retired.(kind of like Michael Jordan-the first time however
) Let me ask you this EstesBobby:

Is the Catholic Church saying that in order to be able to receive the sacraments that one has to vote Republican in each and every election? Is the Church saying as an American you must support a one party Republican government?

 

[estesbob]

npatrol:kpeople:

Okay people, this poster has un-retired.(kind of like Michael Jordan-the first time however
) Let me ask you this EstesBobby:

Is the Catholic Church saying that in order to be able to receive the sacraments that one has to vote Republican in each and every election? Is the Church saying as an American you must support a one party Republican government?

Since the Church never said this it is totally irelevant to the discussion at hand. The question was “Can one reconcile being pro-choice with the teachings of the Church”-the answer is a resounding no.

 

[zamboni]

More misdirection. The Church teaches that killing Abortio Doctors is a grevious sin. No one here supports it.

How is it misdirection to ask someone who says they are from an “Army of God” if they are with THE Army of God? All of your responses are misdirections, estebob, not mine.

Same with the OP’s. No honour among the thieves in this thread.

 

[Caramel]

Since the OP is seconding his own motion to copp out, why should I not be willing to continue with you, Caramel? Actually, there is one question in particular that I have been meaning to ask you.

I think you identify yourself as being a member of the Army of God. May I ask if you are you a member of the same Army of God that apparently condones the murder of abortion doctors?

As reported here: thestar.blogs.com/broadsides/2009/11/market-values.html#comments

Army of God official website found here: armyofgod.com/

For your answer, please see post #686.

 

[Caramel]

I think the following song tells the story of the failure of the anti-choice movement. But like all poetry it uses metaphors, so I am sure there will be people who will automatically object to my interpretation of this song… which I offer only to augment the evidence I have offered from many spiritual and academic sources. If anyone would like to take an easy listening break then why not imagine that the “mountain people” referred to in this song are the pro-choice movement and the “valley people” are anti-choice movement or maybe just “Army of God.com” type of anti-choicers. The “gold,” also called “buried treasure” in the song, represents the combined reproductive ability of men and women in my interpretation. The “one tin soldier,” according to my reckoning of the metaphors, is obviously the guy who murdered the abortion doctor with the blessing of the Army of God.
listen.grooveshark.com/#/song/One_Tin_Soldier_vinly_/11178253

Thank you for the link; however, I am very familiar with the song “One Tin Soldier” and do not need to access it.

In the song, the treasure is a paper which states “Peace on Earth.”

Are you promoting peace on earth? IMHO you really aren’t.

 

[estesbob]

How is it misdirection to ask someone who says they are from an “Army of God” if they are with THE Army of God? All of your responses are misdirections, estebob, not mine.

Same with the OP’s. No honour among the thieves in this thread.

He said he was in Gods army-not that he belonged to the Army of God. Again you are trying to change the subject.

 

[Worthy5]

Since the Church never said this it is totally irelevant to the discussion at hand. The question was “Can one reconcile being pro-choice with the teachings of the Church”-the answer is a resounding no.

Quit dodging the question Este,.:ballspin: that is where the inference goes. Stand up and be counted. :hammering:

 

[estesbob]

Thank you for the link; however, I am very familiar with the song “One Tin Soldier” and do not need to access it.

In the song, the treasure is a paper which states “Peace on Earth.”

Are you promoting peace on earth? IMHO you really aren’t.

When the thread adresses the Movie “Billie Jack” you know we have moved into the realm of the absurd.

 

[Caramel]

How is it misdirection to ask someone who says they are from an “Army of God” if they are with THE Army of God? All of your responses are misdirections, estebob, not mine.

Same with the OP’s. No honour among the thieves in this thread.

What exactly is your point in bringing this all out now? There is only one God and there is only one Army of God. Yes, that is the Army that I belong to. I am a soldier for God and I will never give up my shield or my sword. I love God - I love God the Father; I love God the Son; I love God the Holy Spirit. If you held a gun to my head I would state the exact same thing. It is who I am.

I have answered your question.
Now will you please answer the questions I have asked you?

 

[estesbob]

Quit dodging the question Este,.:ballspin: that is where the inference goes. Stand up and be counted. :hammering:

The answer to the question “Can you reconcile Church teaching with being pro-choice” the anser is no. How is that for answering the question again. Of course I know you are happier adressing your personal opinion on the politics of abortion and Zamboni relies more on the soundtracks from B movies than he does the cathecism of the Catholic Church but that doesnt change what is a very simple answer.

 

[zamboni]

For your answer, please see post #686.

Your answer at #686 only addresses whether you approve of murdering abortion providers or not, whereas my question asked do you belong to THE Army of God or is it another God army that you belong to? As for misrepresenting my words once again, permit me to just quote the song you say you already know well, which says,

“go ahead and cheat a neighbour
go ahead and cheat a friend
do it in the name of heaven
you can justify it in the end…”