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buffalo
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Right - teach metaphysics.And that’s exactly why we cannot have creation science taught in public schools.
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LSK
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The Catholic Church teaches that scientific discoveries regarding the origin of man do not necessarily mean that the Word of God is false. The true Catholic philosopher does not take an ‘either…or’ position on Religion and Science; rather the position is ‘both…and’ with the understanding that God is the author of ALL Truth and therefore, anything that may seem to be at odds with each other is simply because we, as humans, cannot fully understand it.
To pretend otherwise or to insists that a Catholic who believes that a form of evolution may have helped bring human beings into existence is some sort of heretic or an idiot or a loser is to fly into the magisterial teachings of the Holy Mother Church. Keep in mind, many of the greatest scientific discoveries and some of the most interesting theories as to creation have been developed by Catholic Priests who were also scientists and operating under the patronage of the Holy Mother Church.
To pretend otherwise or to insists that a Catholic who believes that a form of evolution may have helped bring human beings into existence is some sort of heretic or an idiot or a loser is to fly into the magisterial teachings of the Holy Mother Church. Keep in mind, many of the greatest scientific discoveries and some of the most interesting theories as to creation have been developed by Catholic Priests who were also scientists and operating under the patronage of the Holy Mother Church.
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buffalo
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fierysword1920
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In the apocryphal book titled “The lives of Adam and Eve” the serpent originally had legs and was the most intelligent of God’s animal creations and when he was entered into by Satan willingly to help him fool Eve God was angry with the serpent also and I think that when the book says that you shall eat dirt, that means that God took away his legs, or normal means of mobility and forced him to crawl face first so to speak along the ground. As far as the animals not being suitable partners I feel like that means that they were not on par or equal to Adam so that he could have a close friend or companion or even to be able to procreate with of course and i’m sure that was never God’s intention to begin with. If you guys have never read the Lives of Adam and Eve books 1 and 2 you should check them out. They are like a super rich informational Genesis where all the vagueness and questions that Genesis leaves you with are filled in here. Don’t know about the validity of the books but it is really interesting reading.
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drpmjhess
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fierysword, if I were a betting woman (which I’m not) I would place my money on there being life elsewhere in the universe. But I agree with you that in the practical order of things it is remote to the point of irrelevance that we will ever meet intelligent ET. I wouldn’t be surprise if we found organic life someplace like Europa, and that might create ethical issues, but not theological ones.
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drpmjhess
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Buffalo, absolutely. My boys get age-appropriate metaphysics at their Catholic school.
On another point, aren’t snakes and serpents the same thing? I speak as a non-herpetologist.
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SpiritMeadow
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**Why do you tend to believe that God doesn’t intend for us to be “galavanting about in the deep reaches of space”? Just curious mind you. And what would you be willing to bet? Given that the more scientific evidence we accumulate, the MORE likely it appears. **
Of course you are absolutely right in every respect. I had no idea there were Catholics who believed in YEC. I have never been taught that in any Catholic church either as catechumen, or in bible studies or discussions among nuns. EVER. It’s but another example here that it is fine to criticize or ignore the Magisterium as long as your more conservative. It is not allowed to EVER criticize the Magisterium about being too conservative.
And they slying call me a cafeteria Catholic…I guess we are not so different after all.
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fierysword1920
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I’m only sporting conjecture, but I think that the plan God has for us is one of Salvation and that being the main reason for our existence so that we may live in eternity with God in Heaven.So I am figuring that there is no reason for us to ever reach deep space to search out other life. I tend to think that if that had been God’s intention there would have been some sort of revelation from the Church in some form detailing or prophesying about other intelligent life. Since there has not been I figure there is probably know such thing, albeit completely possible. I just don’t figure that has anything to do with the human condition and our relationship with the Father in Heaven.
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drpmjhess
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Fierysword, I don’t disagree with you about the unlikelihood of our ever meeting ET. But how would your argument about God’s will regarding space exploratin compare with an analogous argument that if it had been God’s intention for Europeans to “discover” the Americas “there would have been some sort of revelation from the Church in some form detailing or prophesying about other intelligent life”?
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fierysword1920
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I feel that exploration of our own world is just matter of fact, that it is gonna happen no matter what, because the borders are finite unlike space. From a economical standpoint one can probably look at all the money spent on space exploration and see that we have little to no real return on it. I just don’t figure there is any real point when we can’t even get things right here. When I mentioned revelation from the church on E.T.'s or space exploration I mean that nothing has ever been stated or even the slightest interest from a divine standpoint, which leads me to believe that it is apples to oranges when referencing exploration of our own world in regards to exploring space. I figure something that big would have been mentioned or stated in regard to importance. Just seems like a big waste of time.
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244Rocket
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You’re exactly right about that. They’ve never found fossils of the various stages of evolution.
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SpiritMeadow
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Sorry but that argument has been dismantled like 3 times already. You’re coming in on the end of this.
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drpmjhess
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244 Rocket – you’re more than half a century behind the times on this one! Visit the paleontology section of your local library.
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Orogeny
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Gottle_of_Geer
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:idea: Is it possible - as a matter of physics - that such life could be so far away that it could be in a different “dimension” from us ? Or does it eventually happen that the further away something is, the closer it is ? Could dreams be the way in which we travel to other worlds ?
AFAICS, space travel over such vast distances would require time travel - I very much doubt that’s possible. There is also the matter of human sin - C.S. Lewis (him again) suggests that these vast distances are a cordon sanitaire to prevent us - or protect us - from polluting the rest of the cosmos with our sinfulness. We’ve done unspeakable things to members of our own race 
as well as to this planet - do we really need to spread the infection ?ISTM that the soul, because it is a spiritual being, is the only way we have of space travel in “deep” space. The intellect is “big” enough to take in the entire universe: so in thought, if in no other way, we can move unimaginable distances. NASA, if had all the money in the universe & more, could not fit out an expedition to Heaven: but the imagination that is graced by God can be there in a split instant: it can look into the Wisdom of God Himself. (So much for Star Trek 5
) What is space travel compared to that ?Maybe the Incarnation has something to teach us about this…
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Benadam
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Hmmm, they say Padre Pio was able to bilocate. I think once you can do that the ‘where’ part isn’t much of a constraint.
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drpmjhess
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Mr. Geer, you are probably right. We are fast approaching the end of affordable oil (oil production seems to have peaked in 2006), after which we will slide into an uncertain post-fossil fuel era. The window for space exploration may be closing, which will give humanity the option of despairing, or of focusing on the spiritual realities which alone give meaning to our lives.ISTM that the soul, because it is a spiritual being, is the only way we have of space travel in “deep” space. The intellect is “big” enough to take in the entire universe: so in thought, if in no other way, we can move unimaginable distances. NASA, if had all the money in the universe & more, could not fit out an expedition to Heaven: but the imagination that is graced by God can be there in a split instant: it can look into the Wisdom of God Himself. (So much for Star Trek 5
Maybe the Incarnation has something to teach us about this…
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Benadam
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i think it can.Gottle of Geer;2888588 [QUOTE said:D’you think time & space can even be rightly said to exist?
Maybe we should start another thread…
I’ll bring the pizza if you’ll bring the Geer
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michael_legna
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There is no need to reconcile Evolution with the account of Creation in the Bible and this includes the story of Adam and Eve.
This is because Science and Theology have two different aims.
Theology is interested in absolute truth. Science is interested in reproducibility and predictive power. They call their findings “truth” or “facts” but these terms do not have the same meaning as the term used in the separate paradigm of theology. In fact Science knows it cannot even seek truth in an absolute sense because of the philosophical argument known as the white raven thought experiment.
Therefore science focuses on giving us more control over our environment and make the world a better place, and it does this by finding theories with the best predictive power.
Theology because of its interest in absolute truth does not even concern itself with whether its version of events even has any predictive power as long as it explains deeper truths and leads us closer to the ultimate truth.
Science and theology end up truly such that they are not at odds. They simply use different tools to arrive at different usefulness.
Creationism can be true and it does not (or should not) bother scientists at all, because it does not offer predictive power and so is useless to them, even if true (in an absolute sense). At the same time the theory scientist currently use to provide predictions can be replaced at any time by any other theory which provides more or better predictions. Currently Evolution provides the best predictions and yet it is no threat to the truth. That is as long as everyone remembers the one proviso. Words like “truth” and “fact” do not mean the same thing to a scientist and a theologian.
This is because Science and Theology have two different aims.
Theology is interested in absolute truth. Science is interested in reproducibility and predictive power. They call their findings “truth” or “facts” but these terms do not have the same meaning as the term used in the separate paradigm of theology. In fact Science knows it cannot even seek truth in an absolute sense because of the philosophical argument known as the white raven thought experiment.
Therefore science focuses on giving us more control over our environment and make the world a better place, and it does this by finding theories with the best predictive power.
Theology because of its interest in absolute truth does not even concern itself with whether its version of events even has any predictive power as long as it explains deeper truths and leads us closer to the ultimate truth.
Science and theology end up truly such that they are not at odds. They simply use different tools to arrive at different usefulness.
Creationism can be true and it does not (or should not) bother scientists at all, because it does not offer predictive power and so is useless to them, even if true (in an absolute sense). At the same time the theory scientist currently use to provide predictions can be replaced at any time by any other theory which provides more or better predictions. Currently Evolution provides the best predictions and yet it is no threat to the truth. That is as long as everyone remembers the one proviso. Words like “truth” and “fact” do not mean the same thing to a scientist and a theologian.
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