Reconciling Hell with a Loving God

[FightingFat]

I was recently quizzed by my sons who have developed a bit of a fear of hell (I hope that’s healthy!). I have developed my own understanding of hell from JP II’s comments at the General Audience of Wednesday, 28 July 1999: -

““Eternal damnation”, therefore, is not attributed to God’s initiative because in his merciful love he can only desire the salvation of the beings he created. In reality, it is the creature who closes himself to his love. Damnation consists precisely in definitive separation from God, freely chosen by the human person and confirmed with death that seals his choice for ever. God’s judgement ratifies this state.”

I noticed that there was a programme on EWTN about hell this week; “What every Catholic needs to know about hell”. It’s on Youtube in five parts, starting here: youtube.com/watch?v=UUXhtFi4Aog&feature=related

I have to say I was a little shocked, but not in a bad way, almost in a waking up sort of a way, a waking up to the reality of Catholic teaching.

Now I can’t stop thinking about some of the things in the programme, especially with respect to the warnings of the Church. My son was asking about Baptism, are all those who are not Baptised going to hell? I can’t see a loving God condemning people in darkest Peru to everlasting torture because they haven’t been Baptised, or even someone who is a good person, but dismissed the Church based on experience of hypocrisy, abuse or similar.

How do we equate our knowledge of a loving God with this idea of eternal physical and mental torture? It seems disconcerting to me and somewhat contrary to JP II’s vision of a hell where those who reject God spend eternity, and the Church’s teaching of a Jesus who died to save all humanity.

What do you think about hell and how do you reconcile this doctrine?

 

[StJudePray4Me]

I believe that…

Jesus died to open the gates of Heaven for us, but that doesn’t mean he forces us to go through them.

Free will…we can choose a turning away from God. When we know the Truth and reject it, we condemn ourselves. Those who don’t know the Truth, who haven’t ever been exposed to it, are not subject to this…how can you reject something you have never been offered?

Free will is necessary because, if we can’t choose to reject God, well then we can’t choose to love Him, either. Does that make sense? It has to be our choice.

As to a loving God…I believe that God loves each and every one of us and that He grieves over the loss of us to Hell. I believe it is comparable to a parent who watches a child kill himself with drugs…you love, you mourn, you do anything you can, you offer every kind of help there is…but if that child doesn’t want your help, there is nothing you can do. Similarly, I think God sees us turning away and putting ourselves in jeopardy, and so He puts the means to our salvation in our paths a million times a day, but if we don’t ever seize them, He can’t take us to Heaven against our will.

I think of the words from the hymn Here I Am, Lord.… “I weep for love for them, they turn away.”

 

[Rascalking]

It bothers me as well. Someone told me once, “If you never doubt or question your faith, it’s not very strong in the first place. That’s why it’s called faith”

In my area, We are having a news story where a little boy has just been killed (allegedly) by his own mother.Whenever I hear something like that, I cringe. How can God alow these things to happen? Is He even paying attention? Is there a God?

Most honest and secure believers will admit to having feelings like this. We’re not alone.

When I’m in doubt, which happens more and more with me lately, I just pray a prayer like this, “God, if your even up there, please help me strengthen my faith and see Your love.”

I don’t know if this helps. I hope it does.

 

[FightingFat]

It bothers me as well. Someone told me once, “If you never doubt or question your faith, it’s not very strong in the first place. That’s why it’s called faith”

I don’t know about that, I don’t “doubt”, I’m just a bit of theologian and I like tow ork these things out. If something troubles me, I have learnt that it is because I need to study a bit more.

In my area, We are having a news story where a little boy has just been killed (allegedly) by his own mother.Whenever I hear something like that, I cringe. How can God alow these things to happen? Is He even paying attention? Is there a God?

Again, I don’t really suffer in a similar way. I see consequences that result from actions.

I feel that intervention would compromise our free will. It’s more about this idea of hell as somewhere that most people will end up in because they haven’t followed a certain formula with regard to things like Baptism/ Confession/ Eucharist.

My theology is, following Vatican II, Jesus died to save all people everywhere, the Church’s job is to communicate that salvation. I understand that salvation is like medicine, and we each need to individually take that medicine in order to be saved, but if you don’t know that, are you consigned to eternal torture?

 

[steve_b]

I was recently quizzed by my sons who have developed a bit of a fear of hell (I hope that’s healthy!). I have developed my own understanding of hell from JP II’s comments at the General Audience of Wednesday, 28 July 1999: -
““Eternal damnation”, therefore, is not attributed to God’s initiative because in his merciful love he can only desire the salvation of the beings he created. In reality, it is the creature who closes himself to his love. Damnation consists precisely in definitive separation from God, freely chosen by the human person and confirmed with death that seals his choice for ever. God’s judgement ratifies this state.”

One could ask,

• who in their right mind would freely choose damnation? Especially when specific sins are listed that can damn one to hell.

Yet people flaunt those sins and warnings today, and discount them as no big deal, rather than accept them as the grave sins that they are.
FF:

I noticed that there was a programme on EWTN about hell this week; “What every Catholic needs to know about hell”. It’s on Youtube in five parts, starting here: youtube.com/watch?v=UUXhtFi4Aog&feature=related

I have to say I was a little shocked, but not in a bad way, almost in a waking up sort of a way, a waking up to the reality of Catholic teaching.

Now I can’t stop thinking about some of the things in the programme, especially with respect to the warnings of the Church.* My son was asking about Baptism, are all those who are not Baptised going to hell?* I can’t see a loving God condemning people in darkest Peru to everlasting torture because they haven’t been Baptised, or even someone who is a good person, but dismissed the Church based on experience of hypocrisy, abuse or similar.

How do we equate our knowledge of a loving God with this idea of eternal physical and mental torture? It seems disconcerting to me and somewhat contrary to JP II’s vision of a hell where those who reject God spend eternity, and the Church’s teaching of a Jesus who died to save all humanity.

What do you think about hell and how do you reconcile this doctrine?

The Church teaches that if someone is ignorant of God, salvation, the requirements of faith, etc, their ignorance might excuse them provided ignorance is innocent and not intentional. That’s left to God’s judgement of them.

Re: heaven and hell, God eternalizes the direction a person is going in. Everything is based on love. The 2 greatest commandments are
*" love God with your whole heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. And the 2nd is like it. love your neighbor as yourself [Mt 22:37[/COLOR]]
So when Jesus said *“If you love me, keep my commandments”[Jn 14:15] *and a person instead chooses the following

The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God. [Gal 5:19…]

• who/what is it that they choose to love more than God? It’s grave sin that they choose to love more.
• If a soul dies with grave sin on their soul, their fate is sealed as JPII states. where does God eternalize their direction based on how their soul was at death of the body?
• Is this warning for example from Galatians not clear? Yet Paul has to remind the Galatians over and over to NOT commit these sins or else. We have choices. today I put before you life and death, blessings and curses…choose life[Dt 30]
• Look how many people today choose to live sexually immoral lives and ignore all the warnings? Once one knows the truth they can’t plead ignorance.

 

[purplesunshine]

I used to believe that only the fear of Hell kept me good. Then I was an athiest for about 4 months. It was too much work trying.

At that time I had a friend, a mentor really, come into my life.

He taught me that Hell is not a place. Hell is not eternal fire and gehenna as it’s described by Dante’s Inferno. Hell is not being tortured.

Hell is the complete absence of God.

Our hearts deeply and distinctly long for their creator. It is up to us in our life to choose God. God who loves us back and wants us to be with Him. But He dosn’t force us.

Saying “I fear hell” is simply saying that you fear God dosn’t love you. But you don’t have to fear that. He loves you. He made that choice in eternity when He created you.

Although I do believe that there are ways that the person so separates their soul from God it is ever more painful than anything we could immagine.

As Rascalking stated there is horrible sin in the world. As a fellow New Englander with no connection to the little boy I can hardly look at his picture and not cry. What a sweet and amazing little child. That his own mother would commit such a sin is nearly unthinkable.

Then we have people on CAF who turn chewing gum and walking into a mortal sin…(mortal meaning one that does, indeed cut one off from recieving Gods love)…,.and then the fear of Hell comes. I for one, don’t think it’s that easy. We must consiously decide to sin, to do something that destroyes the bond.

Focus on God, not Hell. Hell is simply the absence of God. And when we’re on Earth, thankfully, we cannot know that pain, but only a touch of that.

As far as Baptism. I find that those who in their natural lives cannot come to know Christ Perfected throught the church certinally wouldn’t be held accountable for that. I don’t think that God would condem those who leave the church becuase of personal experiance, either. (like my friend who’s dying and was told by a priest that she must of commited some sin to deserve it)