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francisca
Guest
It was not my opinion, it was a fact of bible translation that I found.
Reconstructed discussion whether belief in literal Adam & Eve is warranted
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It was not my opinion, it was a fact of bible translation that I found.
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StAnastasia
Guest
Oh, right. Ken Miller concurs that the human population never dropped to a single Adamic pair. There wre never fewer than 3,000 to 10,000 breeding pairs of hominids/Homo sapiens.
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grannymh
Guest
Recently, I received a similar response from Ken Miller, but have not yet responded.
The number of breeding pairs of pre-humans is interesting but not essential to the reality of two, sole parents lovingly known as Adam & Eve.
Blessings,
granny
Isaiah 55: 6-9
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ijf90
Guest
Adam and Eve were, of course, real people and were indeed the sole monogamous pair from which each of us is descended. God created all of the orginial “kinds” (which science would perhaps taxonomically call families or genera) in Genesis with a perfect, complex, and diverse genetic make-up. We must assume that God created the genetic information of Adam and Eve to be stable and diverse enough to allow for the interbreeding of their offspring for the carnal perpetuation of humanity.
However, our mitochondrial DNA has been in a state of deterioration since the first Original Sin and its consequential corruption of a perfect creation. This may be evident in the recorded ages of the biblical patriarchs. We see the seemingly exorbitant ages of Adam and his descendants in Genesis 5 & 11. From Adam to Shem (who did however die post-flood) the average lifespan was probably around 834 years. We see a decrease starting with Shem (who spent a good deal of his life in the Postdiluvian world) but, notably, Arphaxad did not live even half as long as Noah.
After the great flood, the gene pool was dramatically reduced as only Noah, Shem, Ham, Japeth, and their wives survived the flood. We see a very dramatic decrease in ages after the flood. This could be the result of a less diverse genetic pool coupled with mitochondrial DNA deterioration. The mitochondrial DNA of the flood survivors had already began to degrade with each subsequent generation from Adam and Eve. So coupled with the drastically decreased gene pool the lifespans shortened exponentially until they seem to "bottom Out’ in the mid-100’s. There could be environmental factors involved as well with the decrease in ages after the flood as the global cataclysm, no doubt, wreaked havoc on the environment.
The continued degredation of our DNA, environmental factors, and socialogial factors have brought us to today’s comparativley short life span of humanity. (Now with the rampant horror of abortion, The average lifespan from conception to death globally, is 21 years.). So, granted, today there is no possibility that a sole man and woman could perpetuate a genetically stable population as Adam and Eve did.
However, our mitochondrial DNA has been in a state of deterioration since the first Original Sin and its consequential corruption of a perfect creation. This may be evident in the recorded ages of the biblical patriarchs. We see the seemingly exorbitant ages of Adam and his descendants in Genesis 5 & 11. From Adam to Shem (who did however die post-flood) the average lifespan was probably around 834 years. We see a decrease starting with Shem (who spent a good deal of his life in the Postdiluvian world) but, notably, Arphaxad did not live even half as long as Noah.
After the great flood, the gene pool was dramatically reduced as only Noah, Shem, Ham, Japeth, and their wives survived the flood. We see a very dramatic decrease in ages after the flood. This could be the result of a less diverse genetic pool coupled with mitochondrial DNA deterioration. The mitochondrial DNA of the flood survivors had already began to degrade with each subsequent generation from Adam and Eve. So coupled with the drastically decreased gene pool the lifespans shortened exponentially until they seem to "bottom Out’ in the mid-100’s. There could be environmental factors involved as well with the decrease in ages after the flood as the global cataclysm, no doubt, wreaked havoc on the environment.
The continued degredation of our DNA, environmental factors, and socialogial factors have brought us to today’s comparativley short life span of humanity. (Now with the rampant horror of abortion, The average lifespan from conception to death globally, is 21 years.). So, granted, today there is no possibility that a sole man and woman could perpetuate a genetically stable population as Adam and Eve did.
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francisca
Guest
Even without touching science speculation, we can be certain that “adam” in Genesis 5 was the sinful “adam”, because despite he lived quite long life (nine hundred years), he did not live forever. At the time of creation, God did not created death, thus we also can be sure that “adam” with the image of God on “him/ them” was/were supposedly intended by God to live forever before the fall. Only after the fall then God posted cherubim and a flaming sword to guard the tree of life so that “adam” can’t eat the fruit of the tree of life which was intended to give everlasting life to “adam”.
My opinion:
The fact that Paul’s epistle teach that sin entered the world through one “adam” (man), this teaching does not explicitly teach that there was only one man in the whole world at the moment of the fall. Genesis is full of mystery because of the time span and the impossibility of our present science to reach up to the very end/ edge of creation era. Not only that, the other difficulty is to assume literal while we also know that the All-Knowing God would have used simplification in order to teach us about exceedingly complicated processes because of our limited brain.
My opinion:
The fact that Paul’s epistle teach that sin entered the world through one “adam” (man), this teaching does not explicitly teach that there was only one man in the whole world at the moment of the fall. Genesis is full of mystery because of the time span and the impossibility of our present science to reach up to the very end/ edge of creation era. Not only that, the other difficulty is to assume literal while we also know that the All-Knowing God would have used simplification in order to teach us about exceedingly complicated processes because of our limited brain.
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francisca
Guest
I’d like to add that Paul’s epistle was not quite accurate also when it say that sin entered the world through one man. It should have said “through one woman” or “through two people”.
The thing is neither did Genesis say that the Likeness of God was given to man and woman (woman means was taken from man - Genesis 2:23). Instead the Likeness of God was given to “adam” yet God created “adam” male and female.
My english bible Genesis 5:1-2
…When God created Adam He made him in the Likeness of God; male and female He created them; He blessed them and call them Man on the day they were created.
Here in Genesis 5:1-2 Adam seems both singular and plural too. Only in Genesis 5:3-5 that Adam seems like an individual person who lived nine hundred and thirty years and who was the father of Seth to Noah.
So St. Paul knew about this Genesis when he wrote
Romans 5:15
“Such has been the fall, but God’s gift goes far beyond. Multitude die because of the fault of one man,…”
Augustine Original Sin was refering to St. Paul’s epistle to the Romans above.
The thing is neither did Genesis say that the Likeness of God was given to man and woman (woman means was taken from man - Genesis 2:23). Instead the Likeness of God was given to “adam” yet God created “adam” male and female.
My english bible Genesis 5:1-2
…When God created Adam He made him in the Likeness of God; male and female He created them; He blessed them and call them Man on the day they were created.
Here in Genesis 5:1-2 Adam seems both singular and plural too. Only in Genesis 5:3-5 that Adam seems like an individual person who lived nine hundred and thirty years and who was the father of Seth to Noah.
So St. Paul knew about this Genesis when he wrote
Romans 5:15
“Such has been the fall, but God’s gift goes far beyond. Multitude die because of the fault of one man,…”
Augustine Original Sin was refering to St. Paul’s epistle to the Romans above.
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StAnastasia
Guest
Adam’s and Eve’s parents and grandparents and great-grandparents were all humans, just as my parents and grandparents and great-grandparents were all humans.
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grannymh
Guest
Yikes!
Finally!
Someone is finally proposing a separate, pure lineage for the human species-- a straight branch of only human natures created by God. With a nice touch of naming people after the two, sole, first human parents just as we do today.
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rabbitdonkey
Guest
Adam and Eve were the first humans so they didnt have human parents or grandparents
God Bless
God Bless
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grannymh
Guest
Adam and Eve not only did not have human parents or grandparents, they began the human species.
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grannymh
Guest
Currently, there is a different approach to the question – Is belief in a literal Adam & Eve warranted? A new thread examines The Science of Human Evolution. The “question” now is – Can the Science of Human Evolution be completely accepted by the Catholic Church?Adam and Eve not only did not have human parents or grandparents, they began the human species.
Thread – Is there a Catholic problem with basic evolution theory? is in the Apologetics Forum.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=1053946
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