"recovering Catholics"?

[phantasm]

I’m a recovering atheist. I grew up against my will in a dogmatically strict atheist home where the guilt over being curious about the human soul and the supernatural feelings I had was so intense that I needed therapy.

**Dogma;

a specific tenet or doctrine authoritatively laid down, as by a church: the dogma of the Assumption.**

Your post doesn’t make any sense, not in the least. Your trying to be clever, but you haven’t even a basic understanding of the language your employing.

 

[guanophore]

When someone says this to me, I say “me too!” But for me, I am recovering from childhood of very poor catechesis and praxis.

Most of the former Catholics that I have talked with seemed poorly educated in their faith. They have little understanding of even basic Catholic practices.

The media depicts all devote Catholics as suffering from extreme guilt or prudishness. My guess is that the views of ‘recovering Catholics’ are influenced by movies, not actual Church practice.

For example, I have a friend who is a former Catholic who left the Church because*** one*** priest was extremely rude to her mom. She now believes that Catholics are not Chrisitans, all because of the behavior of one man.

For some reason those of us who have converted from Protestant are generally appreciative of our backgrounds, while Catholics who convert to Protestantism appear angry at their former faith. I don’t know why this is.

I can certainly testify that when I left the Church, I knew very little about my faith,a nd I was very angry. I was angry because I learned to read the Bible from my Protestant brethren, and I felt that I had been duped and deprived. I believe the CAtholic Church had hidden the Truth, and was false. Of course, I was evangelized by Southern Baptists, and there are few more anti-Catholic groups one can find.

I’ve heard ex-Catholics complain about the guilt. What I don’t understand is, I was raised non-religiously, and I have an intense sense of guilt. So where did my guilt come from, then? And when I tried to suppress that sense of guilt, I just ended up doing more things to subsequently feel guilty about. Seems to me like guilt is just part of the normal human condition, a natural response to sin … am I wrong? Are there really people who have no sense of shame? If so, are they not just sociopaths?

I agree about guilt being part of the normal human condition. I think what is tough for some Catholics is the lack of understanding of grace. I can testify that I did not understand grace properly until I was steeped in some Calvanistic Theology. Once I came back to the Church, I could see and understand it, but I missed it all together when I was growing up.

I am not obliged to be diplomatic with those who mock the Faith that I love and to mock the Church founded by Jesus Christ Himself. Those who do this, do so at their peril. I do not and cannot judge who will be worthy of Hell, but to mock Christ and His Church seems to me to be a very good way to place oneself in danger of damnation.

Yes, you are, hosemonkey. The member was just answering the question in the OP! Most Catholics who leave the Church do so because they become pursuaded that they have become indoctrinated in falsehood. Some of us were influenced by extreme anti-Catholic groups that teach the Catholic Church is the whore of Babylon, etc, etc. Such a person is not mocking Christ, or your faith. Such persons (speaking as one who used to be one) have fallen into error and need your charity, tolerance, patience and prayer.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Romans 3:12

All have gone astray;** all alike are worthless;** there is not one who does good, (there is not) even one.

Romans 3:12 is referencing Isaiah 53 READ ON and stop taking verses out of context. Jesus saved us.

For in him we live and move and have our being.’ As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are his offspring.’ (Acts 17:28)

Psalm 53
1 Who has believed our message
and to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?

2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot,
and like a root out of dry ground.
He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,
nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.

3 He was despised and rejected by men,
a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering.
Like one from whom men hide their faces
he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

4 Surely he took up our infirmities
and carried our sorrows,
yet we considered him stricken by God,
smitten by him, and afflicted.

5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was upon him,
and by his wounds we are healed.

6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to his own way;
and the LORD has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.

7 He was oppressed and afflicted,
yet he did not open his mouth;
he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,
and as a sheep before her shearers is silent,
so he did not open his mouth.

You have some thinking to do. Your asking me this question? Your very own Bible, the New Testament clearly states that all persons are worthless. Your acting like I made this up!

See above. By changing the message, you are making it up.

Pro-choice.

Phantasm-
You never replied to my post about the purpose of the OT stories. You seem to focus on all the negative verses, taking them out of context. You focus on a scowling God, yet God sent His only son to suffer and die for us.

.

 

[qui_est_ce]

I’m a recovering atheist. I grew up against my will in a dogmatically strict atheist home where the guilt over being curious about the human soul and the supernatural feelings I had was so intense that I needed therapy.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

I’m a recovering atheist. I grew up against my will in a dogmatically strict atheist home where the guilt over being curious about the human soul and the supernatural feelings I had was so intense that I needed therapy.

Love it - I hope you are serious about this. Truly, for me, life had grown pretty meaningless before I turned back to faith in God and Christ. It’s a cold cruel world if you don’t believe in anything. It can lead to a sense of despair. I feel much more at peace with my life now.

 

[distracted]

oh… now you’re just rationalizing, I mean stereotyping.

i think you had it right the 1s time… and 2nd time…

i rationalize my dislike of men in general (though at the same time, i often tend to love them “too much” )

AND I am stereotyping…

but if, after all these yrs on Earth, i still don’t think much of men… wel… and many other women don’t either… well… it couldn’t be all MY fault (their fault), could it???

 

[deb1]

Romans 3:12

All have gone astray;** all alike are worthless;** there is not one who does good, (there is not) even one.

You have some thinking to do. Your asking me this question? Your very own Bible, the New Testament clearly states that all persons are worthless. Your acting like I made this up!

Pro-choice.

You are not making this up but you are distorting what you are reading. It is the influence of God that makes us do good. You don’t have to believe in God in order to do good but it is still his influence working on you that makes you good.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

Romans 3:12

All have gone astray;** all alike are worthless;** there is not one who does good, (there is not) even one.

You have some thinking to do. Your asking me this question? Your very own Bible, the New Testament clearly states that all persons are worthless. Your acting like I made this up!

Pro-choice.

,

Ephesians 2 “As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3 All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath.”

The reading continues where Paul says, “But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.”

Every person was once spiritually dead in sin and trespasses. All of us once lived in this spiritual deadness and so were the objects of God’s wrath and fully deserving his judgment of eternal death.

You seem to be spiritually dead, Phantasm.

Ephesians 2:4-10 “But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7 in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.”

God loves us and wants us to be saved.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

John 3

For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son,
so that everyone who believes in him might not perish
but might have eternal life.
For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world,
but that the world might be saved through him.
Whoever believes in him will not be condemned,
but whoever does not believe has already been condemned,
because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

 

[phantasm]

. You seem to focus on all the negative verses, taking them out of context. You focus on a scowling God, yet God sent His only son to suffer and die for us.

.

You seem to focus on all the positive verses, ignoring all of the downright nasty verses.

You focus on a clappy happy God, yet God created the entire universe, the only means of salvation and a system of salvation where upon the majority of us are destined for hell.

 

[phantasm]

John 3

For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son,
so that everyone who believes in him might not perish
but might have eternal life.
For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world,
but that the world might be saved through him.
Whoever believes in him will not be condemned,
but whoever does not believe has already been condemned,
because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

**
Matthew 10:34**

"Do not think that I have come to bring peace upon the earth. I have come to bring not peace but the sword.
For I have come to set a man ‘against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law;
and one’s enemies will be those of his household.’
"Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me;
and whoever does not take up his cross and follow after me is not worthy of me.

John 15:6

Anyone who does not remain in me will be thrown out like a branch and wither; people will gather them and throw them into a fire and they will be burned.

Parable Luke 19:27

Now as for those enemies of mine who did not want me as their king, bring them here and slay them before me.’"

Is that really Jesus meek and mild telling that parable!? Where’s the love?

 

[qui_est_ce]

You seem to focus on all the positive verses, ignoring all of the downright nasty verses.

I already explained some of the “nasty” verses. You just ignored my posts. Besides, it’s the natural evolutionary process to focus on the positive so humans don’t get too depressed to have sex and ensure the continuity of their genes.

You focus on a clappy happy God, yet God created the entire universe, the only means of salvation and a system of salvation where upon the majority of us are destined for hell.

You mischaracterize what I wrote. I said God is merciful, I never, ever said he was clappy happy.

You say you came here to have rational conversation. Then take off your blinders and see what we are really writing, instead of assuming what our motives are.

Belief in Jesus and God does not make a person an unintelliegent myth believer. Some of the greatest minds in history were Catholic Apologists:

St Augustine
St Thomas Acquin
St. Theresa of Avila

I’ll be the first to point out I am not a theologian, so Phantasm, you can poke me all you want. I’m probably not even as smart as you are.

I’d like to see you debate Pope Benedict the XVI. In Latin.

God Bless

 

[CHRISTINE77]

**
Matthew 10:34**

"Do not think that I have come to bring peace upon the earth. I have come to bring not peace but the sword.
For I have come to set a man ‘against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law;
and one’s enemies will be those of his household.’
"Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me;
and whoever does not take up his cross and follow after me is not worthy of me.

John 15:6

Anyone who does not remain in me will be thrown out like a branch and wither; people will gather them and throw them into a fire and they will be burned.

Parable Luke 19:27

Now as for those enemies of mine who did not want me as their king, bring them here and slay them before me.’"

Is that really Jesus meek and mild telling that parable!? Where’s the love?

Boy you are really reaching!!! Jesus got mad sometimes sure! He HATED hypocrites. He definitely was not MEEK!!

He came to teach about the Kingdom of God. The most important commandment is to love God with all your soul and mind and heart. The next is to love your neighbor as your self.

You just pull things out of context. You twist the words of Jesus to mean something else. I’m not denying he said those things, but the idea about denying your family is to realize the people need to pick up their own cross and follow him, even at the expense of your birth family being torn apart. As for the harvest, no doubt about it. The sinners will not end up in heaven. Especially those who are so arrogant as to deny Christ!

 

[deb1]

Matthew 10:34

"Do not think that I have come to bring peace upon the earth. I have come to bring not peace but the sword.
For I have come to set a man ‘against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law;
and one’s enemies will be those of his household.’
"Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me;
and whoever does not take up his cross and follow after me is not worthy of me.

John 15:6

Anyone who does not remain in me will be thrown out like a branch and wither; people will gather them and throw them into a fire and they will be burned.

Parable Luke 19:27

Now as for those enemies of mine who did not want me as their king, bring them here and slay them before me.’"

Is that really Jesus meek and mild telling that parable!? Where’s the love?

If I forewarn someone that certain of their actions will harm them am I being mean? For example, if you smoke, drink heavily and engage in sex with strangers, there is a strong likelihood that you will die at a younger age. Does the fact that I have told you that your actions have a bearing on your future happiness mean that I am being cruel? No. It is merciful of me to point out that your actions are having an effect on your health.

Jesus would have been cruel if he had not warned people that they need to consider their eternal souls.

 

[deb1]

You focus on a clappy happy God, yet God created the entire universe, the only means of salvation and a system of salvation where upon the majority of us are destined for hell.

We do not know how many people are destined for hell.

 

[qui_est_ce]

If I forewarn someone that certain of their actions will harm them am I being mean? For example, if you smoke, drink heavily and engage in sex with strangers, there is a strong likelihood that you will die at a younger age. Does the fact that I have told you that your actions have a bearing on your future happiness mean that I am being cruel? No. It is merciful of me to point out that your actions are having an effect on your health.

Jesus would have been cruel if he had not warned people that they need to consider their eternal souls.

Oh Woe is me. Why did God have to go and create me? I can’t have indisciminate sex and drink till I puke.

 

[Ran]

I’ve met several people recently who’ve identified themselves as “recovering Catholics” …

and how do practicing Catholics respond when they meet someone who identifies that way?

A few of months ago a couple of my wife’s friends, who are somewhat new age like, proudly said they were recovering Catholics. I humbly told them that I too was a recovering Catholic…that for many years I was lost in the world, that for a period I even try to make myself believe that I was atheists being only a man of logic and reasoning. But thanks to the grace of our Lord, I have returned to the church and am in the process of recovering.

 

[deb1]

A few of months ago a couple of my wife’s friends, who are somewhat new age like, proudly said they were recovering Catholics. I humbly told them that I too was a recovering Catholic…that for many years I was lost in the world, that for a period I even try to make myself believe that I was atheists being only a man of logic and reasoning. But thanks to the grace of our Lord, I have returned to the church and am in the process of recovering.

:byzsoc:

 

[SpiritMeadow]

It was logical enough for you to get the answer:

My point exactly.

True

Right, he left the Catholic Church to keep the true deposit of faith.

I never got your point. I merely went on and restated my argument. You talk of what you consider reasonable, I simply point out that there are other reasonable conclusions that didn’t happen. You of course believe what you church teaches, millions do not. That does not make you right. It makes it your belief. One could make a whole plethora of reasoned conclusions about God, most of which haven’t occurred. That you choose to believe that your church is the holder of all truth is your choice. It no where makes it true or right according to the rest of the world. In fact most Catholics don’t subscribe to your belief, and I dare say I don’t believe the Church itself makes such a claim. It admits that other Christian faith traditions also contain truth. While it no doubt wishes to believe that it has the most, and you subscribe to that, there is nothing scriptural that states that.

Happily, most of Christendom doesn’t require a denigration of other faiths as part of its doctrine as you seem to think is required of you.

 

[Stephen168]

I never got your point.

‘distracted’ said it was reasonable that God would protect his Church from error.
You said it was not reasonable. Your reason being if the Church was keep free from error then God would have taken our free will. This is not logical.
After I explained why it was illogical, you wrote “Just by way of argument, one could say that you are right, that is a reasonable conclusion. That however doesn’t make it so, and doesn’t stop a plethora of other reasonable conclusions.”
I agree with you. By logic alone, God may or may not have kept his Church from error. So we are still free to agree or disagree with the claim made by ‘distracted.’ I happen to agree. If you disagree then you need a better argument.