S
St_Redemption
Guest
Exactly my point, well part of it.
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V
VeritasLuxMea
Guest
OK, but I guess where I get confused is that, in your view, neither spouse is supposed to seek their own pleasure, not even a little. Yet, it is not wrong or bad for either spouse TO experience pleasure, in fact, it is quite good?Ah…it makes more sense now…sorry.
Right, being very attentive to your spouse, and self-forgetting tends to slow things down. Can take practice and sacrifice, all part of love.
E
Edward_H
Guest
Well there is a huge and joyful difference between seeking pleasure and being given pleasure. The latter is a true gift, not an entitlement.OK, but I guess where I get confused is that, in your view, neither spouse is supposed to seek their own pleasure, not even a little. Yet, it is not wrong or bad for either spouse TO experience pleasure, in fact, it is quite good?
“Love does not claim rights, it seeks to serve.” (Escriva)
Expecting reciprocity, expecting pleasure, seeking parity…these generally lead to a muted love or trouble.
Expect nothing in return. Abandonment.
V
VeritasLuxMea
Guest
I guess, again, we’re getting caught up in semantics. The way I’m looking at it: each spouse still has to accept the joy of sex, with great gratitude. So that is not much different than “seeking” it in my mind.Well there is a huge and joyful difference between seeking pleasure and being given pleasure. The latter is a true gift, not an entitlement.
“Love does not claim rights, it seeks to serve.” (Escriva)
Expecting reciprocity, expecting pleasure, seeking parity…these generally lead to a muted love or trouble.
Expect nothing in return. Abandonment.
The other should be the focus of the act, though.
I think we agree, overall. Just have a different way of communicating it.
F
fpt
Guest
The marital act is a moral obligation, a moral duty, a moral right (see the natural contract and the natural institution), but also an act of love, a prayer, a liturgy, a language, a gift, a present, a donation, an act of natural goodness, an act of charity.
The morality of intentionality of union of bodies, in the catholic marriage, is very important. The intentionality is morally permissible and ordered by nature, when it is for:
expressing the conjugal love;
and / or
improving the conjugal love;
and / or
improving the bonding of love;
and / or
avoiding the bad effect of concupiscence;
and / or
being an actor of the human procreation (making a baby or trying to make a baby);
and / or
having conjugal sexual fun;
and / or
giving marital sexual pleasure to the other and for receiving marital sexual pleasure from the other.
and / or
praying God.
(Alternative intentions or cumulative intentions). The cumulative intentions are also moral, of course. Each one of these intentions is a proof of conjugal love. Each one of these intention is relevant and / or enough.
The marital act is coming from conjugal love; The marital act has to be done by conjugal love; The marital act has to be done in conjugal love; The marital act belongs to conjugal love; The marital act has to be done for conjugal love; The marital act has to be done for the other spouse (each spouse has to be active for the other during the marital act).
In the marriage, the woman is or should be the " New Eve of her Man " and the " Saint Mary-Magdalene of her husband " about the conjugal sex. She has to try to be the guide of her Husband, and the Person who reveals in him, his part of feminity, and helps his masculinity. The conjugal female has to understand the normal sexuality of her male. Wife is the teacher of the sexuality of her husband, she is also the professor of the sexuality of her husband, and then she is the doctress and love’s master of the sexuality of her husband.
In the marriage, the man is or should be to be the " New Adam of his wife" and the " Holy Beloved of his wife" about the conjugal sex. He has to try to be the guide of his Wife, and the Person who reveals in her, her part of masculinity, and helps her feminity. Husband is the teacher of the sexuality of his wife, he is also the professor of the sexuality of his wife, and then he is the doctor and love’s master of the sexuality of his wife.
Thus, the wife has to give her body to her husband and the husband has to receive the body of his wife; the husband has to give his body to his wife and the wife has to receive the body of her husband (the mutual donation of bodies by the complete union of bodies, in the human fashion with the sexual cooperation): the holy conjugal erotism belongs to the marriage.
In the marriage, the woman is or should be the " New Eve of her Man " and the " Saint Mary-Magdalene of her husband " about the conjugal sex. She has to try to be the guide of her Husband, and the** Person who reveals in him, his part of feminity, and helps his masculinity. **The conjugal female has to understand the normal sexuality of her male. Wife is the teacher of the sexuality of her husband, she is also the professor of the sexuality of her husband, and then she is the doctress and love’s master of the sexuality of her husband.
In the marriage, the man is or should be to be the " New Adam of his wife" and the " Holy Beloved of his wife" about the conjugal sex. He has to try to be the guide of his Wife, and the Person who reveals in her,** her part of masculinity, and helps her feminity**. Husband is the teacher of the sexuality of his wife, he is also the professor of the sexuality of his wife, and then he is the doctor and love’s master of the sexuality of his wife.
Each one has to let the other to be active on its sexual body, that means also a part of passivity for letting the other to be active. Each spouse is a passive agent and an active agent.
The morality of intentionality of union of bodies, in the catholic marriage, is very important. The intentionality is morally permissible and ordered by nature, when it is for:
expressing the conjugal love;
and / or
improving the conjugal love;
and / or
improving the bonding of love;
and / or
avoiding the bad effect of concupiscence;
and / or
being an actor of the human procreation (making a baby or trying to make a baby);
and / or
having conjugal sexual fun;
and / or
giving marital sexual pleasure to the other and for receiving marital sexual pleasure from the other.
and / or
praying God.
(Alternative intentions or cumulative intentions). The cumulative intentions are also moral, of course. Each one of these intentions is a proof of conjugal love. Each one of these intention is relevant and / or enough.
The marital act is coming from conjugal love; The marital act has to be done by conjugal love; The marital act has to be done in conjugal love; The marital act belongs to conjugal love; The marital act has to be done for conjugal love; The marital act has to be done for the other spouse (each spouse has to be active for the other during the marital act).
In the marriage, the woman is or should be the " New Eve of her Man " and the " Saint Mary-Magdalene of her husband " about the conjugal sex. She has to try to be the guide of her Husband, and the Person who reveals in him, his part of feminity, and helps his masculinity. The conjugal female has to understand the normal sexuality of her male. Wife is the teacher of the sexuality of her husband, she is also the professor of the sexuality of her husband, and then she is the doctress and love’s master of the sexuality of her husband.
In the marriage, the man is or should be to be the " New Adam of his wife" and the " Holy Beloved of his wife" about the conjugal sex. He has to try to be the guide of his Wife, and the Person who reveals in her, her part of masculinity, and helps her feminity. Husband is the teacher of the sexuality of his wife, he is also the professor of the sexuality of his wife, and then he is the doctor and love’s master of the sexuality of his wife.
Thus, the wife has to give her body to her husband and the husband has to receive the body of his wife; the husband has to give his body to his wife and the wife has to receive the body of her husband (the mutual donation of bodies by the complete union of bodies, in the human fashion with the sexual cooperation): the holy conjugal erotism belongs to the marriage.
In the marriage, the woman is or should be the " New Eve of her Man " and the " Saint Mary-Magdalene of her husband " about the conjugal sex. She has to try to be the guide of her Husband, and the** Person who reveals in him, his part of feminity, and helps his masculinity. **The conjugal female has to understand the normal sexuality of her male. Wife is the teacher of the sexuality of her husband, she is also the professor of the sexuality of her husband, and then she is the doctress and love’s master of the sexuality of her husband.
In the marriage, the man is or should be to be the " New Adam of his wife" and the " Holy Beloved of his wife" about the conjugal sex. He has to try to be the guide of his Wife, and the Person who reveals in her,** her part of masculinity, and helps her feminity**. Husband is the teacher of the sexuality of his wife, he is also the professor of the sexuality of his wife, and then he is the doctor and love’s master of the sexuality of his wife.
Each one has to let the other to be active on its sexual body, that means also a part of passivity for letting the other to be active. Each spouse is a passive agent and an active agent.
B
brb3
Guest
Depends on what X is ? …or your Y is for her.How does one have sex without trying to enjoy it? Does that mean every time my wife says, “can you do X?” she is sinning, because she’s trying to make it more enjoyable for herself? And vice versa if I ask her to do Y?
Only procreative bonding is kosher. Manual touching / petting is fine …but, oral genital & any anal activities are off limits .
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