Red mozzetta? Coat of Arms?

[JReducation]

JReducation, I’ve seen a lot of your posts over the past few days and wanted to say how interesting I’ve found them, and how much I’ve learned from them.

Thank you!

Thank you. That’s so nice of you to say. I’ve been getting some hate PMs lately by people who claim that they don’t like Pope Francis. However, I’m more convinced that I’m the real target. Which is fine by me. I could care less if I’m the target. I’m just me. If the pope becomes the target, any pope, then I come out with my gloves on ready for a boxing match.

I’m glad to hear you say he’s quite orthodox

I do try to distinguish between personal style and orthodoxy. I’m not one to care if he wears the mizzetta as long as his doctrine is rock solid. I guess it just comes from not knowing much about him yet, a fear about the unknown kind of thing. I’d be more than happy to embrace his humble, unimposing style if I just knew more about his doctrinal stances.

He’s really quite orthodox. We don’t know much about the Latin American bishops in the USA, because we’re so big and have so many bishops of our own. I spent a few years in Latin America as a missionary. The situation there is different. The Conference of Latin American Bishops is very prominent. Regardless of what country you’re in, you hear about the other bishops. Imagine if we had a North American Conference instead of a US Conference. It would include the Caribbean, Mexico, Canada, USA and Greenland. Unfortunately it would exclude Hawaii. I don’t think Hawaii is in North American waters, is it?

Anyway, back to Pope Francis, he’s an interesting fellow. There are some good videos on the internet. He is famous for taking on the president of Argentina on several hot issues.

I do see him doing something a little different and maybe it will help too. I think that he’s going to put a lot more stress on the positives: mercy, justice, sacraments, Mary, prayer, penance and try to bring people around that way. That’s my guess, because it’s a very Jesuit approach. He is definitely very very very very Jesuit.

 

[CmGuy89]

JReducation, I must admit I don’t know much about religious life or the Jesuits. Most of the stuff I’ve heard about the Jesuits has always been at least a little bit negative so I’m glad you’ve given an informative insight into Ignatian spirituality.

I keep wondering what Pope Francis’ papacy will be like, but perhaps I should just go along for the ride and see what happens instead of playing fortune teller. Your words have been very inspirational among the more negative stuff I’ve seen around lately.

 

[Melchior_1]

Imagine you grew up with this foul mouthed man, who had little to no education. A man who acted without thinking. A man who had physical strength, and stubbornness to match. Blue collar worker, he plied his trade and attempted to succeed, but the reality was that there was no chance of advancement. He had no chance of being one of the educated, neither did his brother. Pretty sure he had to support his mother-in-law who had health problems.

Now imagine this man becomes the leader of the Church.

The man I described? Saint Peter.

All of this is to say, Christ doesn’t call the qualified. He qualifies the called.

 

[JReducation]

JReducation, I must admit I don’t know much about religious life or the Jesuits. Most of the stuff I’ve heard about the Jesuits has always been at least a little bit negative so I’m glad you’ve given an informative insight into Ignatian spirituality.

I keep wondering what Pope Francis’ papacy will be like, but perhaps I should just go along for the ride and see what happens instead of playing fortune teller. Your words have been very inspirational among the more negative stuff I’ve seen around lately.

I think following along is the best idea. I have no idea why everyone is so busy trying to guess what this man is going to do next or in five years. I thought that only media people did this, because they need to fill in blank pages in newspaper. Now, I’m seeing others do it in forums and blogs all over the place. I’m wondering if this is just a cultural thing with us Americans. We’re so used to being in control that we can’t accept that which is out of our control. Any thoughts?

Imagine you grew up with this foul mouthed man, who had little to no education. A man who acted without thinking. A man who had physical strength, and stubbornness to match. Blue collar worker, he plied his trade and attempted to succeed, but the reality was that there was no chance of advancement. He had no chance of being one of the educated, neither did his brother. Pretty sure he had to support his mother-in-law who had health problems.

Now imagine this man becomes the leader of the Church.

The man I described? Saint Peter.

All of this is to say, Christ doesn’t call the qualified. He qualifies the called.

You had me wondering what the heck you were talking about until I got to Peter. When I read the first sentence I wondered if you had been dipping into the cooking wine. LOL

 

[Oneofthewomen]

I think following along is the best idea. I have no idea why everyone is so busy trying to guess what this man is going to do next or in five years. I thought that only media people did this, because they need to fill in blank pages in newspaper. Now, I’m seeing others do it in forums and blogs all over the place. I’m wondering if this is just a cultural thing with us Americans. We’re so used to being in control that we can’t accept that which is out of our control. Any thoughts?

Brother, I think you nailed it with what I bolded!

I know for me me giving up “control”, or at least my delusion that I was actually even “in control” in the first place , was/is the hardest part of the journey, and sadly, I still haven’t learned completely yet.
JReducation;/:

You had me wondering what the heck you were talking about until I got to Peter. When I read the first sentence I wondered if you had been dipping into the cooking wine. LOL

 

[Marie5890]

Now, I’m seeing others do it in forums and blogs all over the place. I’m wondering if this is just a cultural thing with us Americans. We’re so used to being in control that we can’t accept that which is out of our control. Any thoughts?

My pastor has talked about this and how it relates to what he termed “rugged individualism” that comes from being an American.

He wasn’t dissing it, but trying to point out that it can get in our way when it comes to our relationship with the Lord, and the Church.

 

[JReducation]

My pastor has talked about this and how it relates to what he termed “rugged individualism” that comes from being an American.

He wasn’t dissing it, but trying to point out that it can get in our way when it comes to our relationship with the Lord, and the Church.

For anyone who may be reading this, I believe that Marie’s pastor is right on this point. I believe that this why the spiritual masters have been so insistent on detachment. Rugged individualism is a form of attachment to oneself, to one’s alleged abilities and knowledge over those of others. Sometimes, our attachment to our opinions and what we believe is right or wrong for the Church can be totally contrary to what God has in mind for his Church.

The first thing that we must remember is that it’s not our Church. We do not own it, as Archbishop Chaput once said. There are people out there who believe that being part of the Church is like being a shareholder in a public corporation. They spout off their vision of what the Church must be and what the pope must do or not do as if they had the right and authority to do so.

This is a very important point. I have mentioned here that when the Holy Father was elected, our brothers were commenting on this and that. As superior, it’s my moral duty to guide them to think and feel with St. Francis. I posed it to them this way, “You are no one. You have no voice. You do not own the pope or the Church. You are the servant of all and master of none. Everyone is better than you are and holier than you and you must never forget your lowly place in the Church. The moment we forget this place, we become like Satan, filled with self-love and pride. Our Holy Father Francis (the big one, not the pope) taught us to view ourselves as worthless instruments for a good reason. Only when we see ourselves as the least can God build us up. If we’re already the top dog, then we no longer need God. We have it all figured out. That is spiritual pride.”

I tell this to my brothers every time they open their mouths to opine about the pope, the bishop, the Church as if they were on the Board of Directors or some corporation. The Church is not a corporation and each member of the Church is piece of the larger body. As saint Paul reminds us, the hand cannot tell the foot that it no longer needs it. Neither can the hand dictate to the foot how to stand or walk. A hand is simply a hand and nothing more. We must see ourselves the same way or we’re lost.

 

[Marie5890]

For anyone who may be reading this, I believe that Marie’s pastor is right on this point. I believe that this why the spiritual masters have been so insistent on detachment. Rugged individualism is a form of attachment to oneself, to one’s alleged abilities and knowledge over those of others. Sometimes, our attachment to our opinions and what we believe is right or wrong for the Church can be totally contrary to what God has in mind for his Church.

The first thing that we must remember is that it’s not our Church. We do not own it, as Archbishop Chaput once said. There are people out there who believe that being part of the Church is like being a shareholder in a public corporation. They spout off their vision of what the Church must be and what the pope must do or not do as if they had the right and authority to do so.

This is a very important point. I have mentioned here that when the Holy Father was elected, our brothers were commenting on this and that. As superior, it’s my moral duty to guide them to think and feel with St. Francis. I posed it to them this way, “You are no one. You have no voice. You do not own the pope or the Church. You are the servant of all and master of none. Everyone is better than you are and holier than you and you must never forget your lowly place in the Church. The moment we forget this place, we become like Satan, filled with self-love and pride. Our Holy Father Francis (the big one, not the pope) taught us to view ourselves as worthless instruments for a good reason. Only when we see ourselves as the least can God build us up. If we’re already the top dog, then we no longer need God. We have it all figured out. That is spiritual pride.”

I tell this to my brothers every time they open their mouths to opine about the pope, the bishop, the Church as if they were on the Board of Directors or some corporation. The Church is not a corporation and each member of the Church is piece of the larger body. As saint Paul reminds us, the hand cannot tell the foot that it no longer needs it. Neither can the hand dictate to the foot how to stand or walk. A hand is simply a hand and nothing more. We must see ourselves the same way or we’re lost.

Im slowly, ever so slowly, coming to an understand of this. It hasnt been easy. But the understanding is coming, not just to my mind, but to my soul.

Thank you for articulating it in a manner that I can understand. I havent been able to explain it, even to myself.

 

[aemcpa]

Our Holy Father Francis (the big one, not the pope)

I thought that might be a problem for Franciscans. LOL.

 

[Inego_de_Loyola]

For goodness sakes – we just got a new Pope – and the pouncing has begun to find some “fault”.

Who is finding fault?

 

[JReducation]

I thought that might be a problem for Franciscans. LOL.

It’s even funnier at mass. We include “our Holy Father Francis and all the saints” in the canon of the mass and in the confetior. In the canon it’s confusing. It sounds as if you’re saying it twice. You also have to pray for the bishop and pope.

A Franciscan from Chicago sent me the funniest e-mail. He said that they feel as if they’re stuttering during the canon. They include “our holy Father Francis and all the saints” and then proceed to pray for Francis our bishop and Francis our pope. They have Cardinal Francis George up there.

Who is finding fault?

Unfortunately, there is a lot happening on the Internet, especially on blogs.

While it’s understandable that the Holy Father is very different from his predecessors, there doesn’t seem to be the patience to let the man “grow into his new clothes.” He’s going to make some choices that seem strange to us. Some may be prudent and some not. However, people need to be allowed to find their way around their new role rather than impose a stereotype on them. If when I became superior someone had said to me that I had to be like St. Francis, I probably would have panicked. St. Francis and I have very different personalities and different gifts. Some people seem to be saying this to the new pope. “You have to be like Pope Benedict”

 

[Mrs_Sally]

A Franciscan from Chicago sent me the funniest e-mail. He said that they feel as if they’re stuttering during the canon. They include “our holy Father Francis and all the saints” and then proceed to pray for Francis our bishop and Francis our pope. They have Cardinal Francis George up there.

On people’s reactions to Pope Francis: Comparisions are usually not helpful. On one hand people are saying things like “Pope Francis is throwing out all traditions! He’s going to sell off Vatican art and wear old bedsheets as chasubles!! ” Then another group is saying “Pope Francis is a true Christian, Pope Benedict was only worried about books and pretty vestments, but Pope Francis Really loves people!! ”

Neither side is right and neither side is helping people come to Christ. I wish everyone would take a deep breath and return to their Lenten observences.

 

[JReducation]

On people’s reactions to Pope Francis: Comparisions are usually not helpful. On one hand people are saying things like “Pope Francis is throwing out all traditions! He’s going to sell off Vatican art and wear old bedsheets as chasubles!! ” Then another group is saying “Pope Francis is a true Christian, Pope Benedict was only worried about books and pretty vestments, but Pope Francis Really loves people!! ”

Neither side is right and neither side is helping people come to Christ. I wish everyone would take a deep breath and return to their Lenten observences.

As human beings, we prefer to focus on someone else rather than on our own salvation. Because, when we focus on our own salvation, it frightens us to see how far we have yet to go.

 

[John2007]

On people’s reactions to Pope Francis: Comparisions are usually not helpful. On one hand people are saying things like “Pope Francis is throwing out all traditions! He’s going to sell off Vatican art and wear old bedsheets as chasubles!! ” Then another group is saying “Pope Francis is a true Christian, Pope Benedict was only worried about books and pretty vestments, but Pope Francis Really loves people!! ”

Neither side is right and neither side is helping people come to Christ. I wish everyone would take a deep breath and return to their Lenten observences.

Many seem to be falling all over themselves trying to judge the new Holy Father by externals such as how he dresses and how he does liturgy. Externals may reflect only a part of what he is internally.

I too “underdress” for my position and do not like public formalities. If the new head of the Church is a private and humble person who eschews the pomp and ceremony that have encrusted the office over the last two thousand years, it will disappoint those love externals. It will not disappoint those who are living in forced poverty and humility.

Pope Francis does, after all, have SJ after his name. He may act simply but is internally very complex. We don’t know what his internal agenda is going to be until it is externalized over time. Currently we are seeing him in sheep’s clothing. Is there a wolf inside? It will be interesting to find out over time.

John

 

[latingirl]

I understand where the Jesuits are coming from by spurning aspects of royalty however all Christians are sons and daughters in the Kingdom of God- we ARE royalty! And the bishops foremost oversee us as stewards of a royal household! That is wonderful news, a miracle of the new covenant, not something to be hidden in my opinion. I personally see no contradiction between royalty and poverty in the Church. Despite all his supposed “luxuries” the pope is always a poor man- nothing he wears or uses belongs to him. Neither did St Francis see a contradiction, who is said to have said: “When a priest wears a cassock, let it be in rags, when he wears vestments, may they be in gold.”

 

[JReducation]

I understand where the Jesuits are coming from by spurning aspects of royalty however all Christians are sons and daughters in the Kingdom of God- we ARE royalty! And the bishops foremost oversee us as stewards of a royal household! That is wonderful news, a miracle of the new covenant, not something to be hidden in my opinion. I personally see no contradiction between royalty and poverty in the Church. Despite all his supposed “luxuries” the pope is always a poor man- nothing he wears or uses belongs to him. Neither did St Francis see a contradiction, who is said to have said: “When a priest wears a cassock, let it be in rags, when he wears vestments, may they be in gold.”

I’m not sure who your source was, but that quote is not legitimate. There may be a problem in the translation. St. Francis could not have said this because the cassock did not come into existence until the Jesuits introduced it 300 years after the death of St. Francis. Secondly, the friars were never allowed to own such vestments. They were to wear whatever was available.

St. Francis did decree that everything used in mass had to be clean and properly cared for. He never decreed that it had to be of great monetary value. There is no such point in our rule. This seems to be an abstraction that some writers have made, not an actual command. Whereas the point of cleanliness and care for sacred books and vessels is a part of the rule.

Moving along, the people of God are a kingly people. But this does not oblige a pope to be a monarch or give the appearance of being a monarch. It has always been the tradition of the Church that religious popes follow the customs of their orders. For example, Pope Nicholas IV was a Franciscan Friar. He wore his habit. For liturgy, he wore whatever was customary at that time. St. Pius V was a Dominican Friar. It is he who introduced the cream colored tunic of the pope. He always wore his Dominican habit. His successor had a white robe created in his honor. Pope Pius X was a Secular Franciscan. He combined the secular external appearances of the papacy and Franciscan asceticism.

 

[shelby_sun]

As human beings, we prefer to focus on someone else rather than on our own salvation. Because, when we focus on our own salvation, it frightens us to see how far we have yet to go.

I agree. I also find that people focus more on what they think will get them saved than looking deeper into their own faith and practicing they way it was meant to be practiced.

I guess where you come from plays a part in that. Only knowing the Jesuit way, I get very overwhelmed and distracted going to Mass in an elaborate church. There is nothing wrong with the church itself, it is just not what I am used to, but I try to see all the good things about it and still focus on the words being said instead of how the priest is dress or the physical atmosphere I am in. Pop Francis He is who he is and there are wonderful things about keeping things simpler for awhile,. Those having a hard time adjusting, remember it is not forever, but try to at least appreciate it while it last.

 

[clem456]

I agree. I also find that people focus more on what they think will get them saved than looking deeper into their own faith and practicing they way it was meant to be practiced.

Speaking for myself, it is hard to accept that God is unlimited in His love and loves in ways that I cannot understand.
The world wants to tell us that love and life are limited. If this is the case, then it becomes right to note that others are excluded. Salvation becomes ownership instead of grace.

Mt 20:1-16 “Are you envious because I am generous?”