Red or white?

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sarahq

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Does your priest usually use red or white wine for communion? Mine usually uses white, on tv it seems to usually be white, but last week, at a different church, I noticed it was red! What about you?
 
Red and white wine are both allowed. As a sacristan I prefer red, because I can see any Precious Blood that is on the linen or altar cloth, and can take care of it. The priests I have served also prefer red.
 
White, and it drives me crazy. I know it’s a little thing, but the red is much better for helping the senses to understand the truth of transubstantiation.
 
My current parish uses red. Most parishes just pick one and stick with it. I do remember one place (don’t recall whether it was a parish or retreat center) where the selection seemed random. Perhaps each priest there was allowed to select his preferred wine.
 
FrancisB said:
White, and it drives me crazy. I know it’s a little thing, but the red is much better for helping the senses to understand the truth of transubstantiation.
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That actually looks to me like an argument against red. The more our senses agree with our faith the less it is faith.
Cathryn said:
Red and white wine are both allowed. As a sacristan I prefer red, because I can see any Precious Blood that is on the linen or altar cloth, and can take care of it. The priests I have served also prefer red.
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Although this practical response is quite compelling. On the other hand, you could always “act as if” and just always drain your water from washing liturgical linens in the sacrarium.
 
SonCatcher said:
My current parish uses red. Most parishes just pick one and stick with it. I do remember one place (don’t recall whether it was a parish or retreat center) where the selection seemed random. Perhaps each priest there was allowed to select his preferred wine.
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The randomness might be explained by the restoration of the ancient practice, which was for the parishioners to bring the gifts, and so you would get whatever wine was brought.
 
SonCatcher said:
That actually looks to me like an argument against red. The more our senses agree with our faith the less it is faith.
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I don’t think that argument holds much water; the object isn’t to make faith as difficult to believe as possible, is it?
 
Red; for both symbolic purposes and practicality.
Of course the red symbolism is straightforward and helps the communicant realize, “hey! This is the blood of Christ!”
The red makes a world of difference when there has been a spill. It doesn’t leave you double guessing yourself as to whether or not you got the precious blood all off the floor or whatever it might have spilled on. I have gone to parishes that use white, and I was scared out of my wits that I might have spilled it! Speaking of which, I am an Extraordinary Minister for Christmas vigil tomorrow. The only thing going through my head right now is “don’tspill don’tspill don’tspill don’tspill don’tspill don’tspill don’tspill… 😃 The Blood of Christ :D… don’tspill don’tspill don’tspill don’tspill don’tspill don’tspill don’tspill”
 
sarahq said:
Does your priest usually use red or white wine for communion? Mine usually uses white, on tv it seems to usually be white, but last week, at a different church, I noticed it was red! What about you?
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Usually red, though on occasion in the past, white. For sometime now it has been red, though, so maybe that is what will be used going forward.
 
SonCatcher said:
That actually looks to me like an argument against red. The more our senses agree with our faith the less it is faith.

Although this practical response is quite compelling. On the other hand, you could always “act as if” and just always drain your water from washing liturgical linens in the sacrarium.
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I do the sacred rinse and pour the water into the soil along side the Church because we have no sacrarium. Then I wash the linen and iron it. However, the altar cloth is not changed for every Mass unless I see that there is wine, or Precious Blood on it. In that case it is given the sacred rise and then laundered as usual. The altar cloth is changed and replaced as needed or once a week. Using the white wine makes it very difficult to see that there is Precious Blood on the altar cloth. Using red wine, it is obvious that it needs immediate attention.
 
I voted “red”, and I have never seen white used in any parish, in any of the states in which I have lived. I actually would have thought that white wine was not allowed. Veddy interesting!
 
Red, which I think is good. The separate species are used to represent sacrifice, via the idea of separation of body and blood. Red wine works better as a symbol of blood, thus I think it’s a better choice symbolically speaking. It also has a heartier, more “traditional” cultural connotation, which I like. And as someone else has said it’s more visible.

The argument I’ve heard in favor of white wine, or perhaps more commonly blush wine, is that some people don’t like wine and find the milder taste of white or blush wines more palatable. I don’t get that. And anyway no one except the priest is required to drink from the chalice. But oh well, there’s nothing against it in Church norms and apparently there really are people out there who hate red wine.

As a side note, I wonder if the Church should consider whether to institute a rule about the species of grape used for the wine. Through most of Church history wine, whether red or white, was made from the species Vitis vinifera, native to Europe, North Africa, the Middle East and Iran, and still today the vast majority of wine is made from that species. But some wines are now made from North American or Asian species of grape, or from hybrids between them and Vitis vinifera (yes, potential for hybridization does not mean it’s the same species, especially in plants). For example you can find wines made from the Concord grape of grape-juice and grape-jelly fame, which is bred from a North American species. I could see someone using it for the same reason given for using white wines- the immature palates of some children or even adults. It seems a little strange to me that the Church is so concerned about the species of grain used for the bread and the absence of any tiny bit of extra ingredients, but any kind of grape goes. I suppose I’m probably not the first person to think of this though and the Church has chosen not to pursue it. 🤷
 
Aelred_Minor said:
Red, which I think is good. The separate species are used to represent sacrifice, via the idea of separation of body and blood. Red wine works better as a symbol of blood, thus I think it’s a better choice symbolically speaking. It also has a heartier, more “traditional” cultural connotation, which I like. And as someone else has said it’s more visible.

The argument I’ve heard in favor of white wine, or perhaps more commonly blush wine, is that some people don’t like wine and find the milder taste of white or blush wines more palatable. I don’t get that. Personally I have a harder time imagining someone disliking red wine than disliking bread, and we don’t let people who don’t like bread put sugar on the host to get it down. And anyway no one except the priest is required to drink from the chalice. But oh well, there’s nothing against it in Church norms and apparently there really are people out there who hate red wine.
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Note that blood is also red and white. Though it is common for us to see blood as red as the red dominates the color of the blood. But plasma, when taken out, looks more like what white wine is.

Although in the Byzantine Rite, it is tradition to use red wine and thus we will always use red wine.
Aelred_Minor said:
As a side note, I wonder if the Church should consider whether to institute a rule about the species of grape used for the wine. Through most of Church history wine, whether red or white, was made from the species Vitis vinifera, native to Europe, North Africa, the Middle East and Iran, and still today the vast majority of wine is made from that species. But some wines are now made from North American or Asian species of grape, or from hybrids between them and Vitis vinifera (yes, potential for hybridization does not mean it’s the same species, especially in plants). For example you can find wines made from the Concord grape of grape-juice and grape-jelly fame, which is bred from a North American species. I could see someone using it for the same reason given for using white wines- the immature palates of some children or even adults. It seems a little strange to me that the Church is so concerned about the species of grain used for the bread and the absence of any tiny bit of extra ingredients, but any kind of grape goes. I suppose I’m probably not the first person to think of this though and the Church has chosen not to pursue it. 🤷
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That will introduce undue burden and costs in acquiring wine for the parish. While you’re at it, what about wheat? Wheat has differences as well and also the milling process, are we to go back to stone mills to mirror the mills of 1st century AD?
 
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