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DihydrogenOxide
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My priest uses rosé. 
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Aelred_Minor
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Blood is red unless you do strange things to it that were not possible through most of history.
Regarding burden and costs associated with avoiding North American or East Asian grape species, that wouldn’t be nearly has big a burden as that already imposed regarding the purity of the wine. It’s not hard to avoid the few strange varieties of wine produced from other species of grape. Generally it’s difficult to find wines made from other species, except maybe the Concord stuff, not to avoid them. At least that’s true in the United States and I’d think it would be even more true in Europe. Don’t know if the Philippines might have some kind of popular traditional local wine made from a different species.
And I’m not suggesting we keep going to a finer and finer level of similarity to what Jesus used until it would be difficult to find the ingredients today (milling process and all). It’s just that considering the requirement that the bread be made from wheat, not any other kind of grain, and especially the prohibition against even small amounts of other ingredients, including in the wine, the latitude towards what kind of grapes the wine comes from seems inconsistent with the Church’s general attitude towards the subject, which is usually that of providing a vigorous fence around the sacrament to avoid any danger of accidental invalidation.
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Phemie
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My parish has been using rose because the pastor preferred the light taste of it. The sacristan is petitioning for white because it’s easier to get out of the purificators.
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Oneofthewomen
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FrDavid96
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There are some altar wines made from concord grapes.Red, which I think is good. The separate species are used to represent sacrifice, via the idea of separation of body and blood. Red wine works better as a symbol of blood, thus I think it’s a better choice symbolically speaking. It also has a heartier, more “traditional” cultural connotation, which I like. And as someone else has said it’s more visible.
The argument I’ve heard in favor of white wine, or perhaps more commonly blush wine, is that some people don’t like wine and find the milder taste of white or blush wines more palatable. I don’t get that. And anyway no one except the priest is required to drink from the chalice. But oh well, there’s nothing against it in Church norms and apparently there really are people out there who hate red wine.
As a side note, I wonder if the Church should consider whether to institute a rule about the species of grape used for the wine. Through most of Church history wine, whether red or white, was made from the species Vitis vinifera, native to Europe, North Africa, the Middle East and Iran, and still today the vast majority of wine is made from that species. But some wines are now made from North American or Asian species of grape, or from hybrids between them and Vitis vinifera (yes, potential for hybridization does not mean it’s the same species, especially in plants). For example you can find wines made from the Concord grape of grape-juice and grape-jelly fame, which is bred from a North American species. I could see someone using it for the same reason given for using white wines- the immature palates of some children or even adults. It seems a little strange to me that the Church is so concerned about the species of grain used for the bread and the absence of any tiny bit of extra ingredients, but any kind of grape goes. I suppose I’m probably not the first person to think of this though and the Church has chosen not to pursue it.
onehda.com/Wine_Selection.php
Scroll to the bottom and you’ll find “Chalice Concord”
I’m not well versed in genus & species, but are there no different kinds of wheat as well? I would imagine there are.
In Latin (which is the only language in which the Code of Canon Law is binding) says this in canon 924
§ 3. Vinum debet esse naturale de genimine vitis et non corruptum.
I don’t know how “vitis” corresponds to the species names of different grapes (again, I’m no botanist), but it seems that if the scientific name of the grape would be “vitis something” that might be the deciding factor. I don’t know for certain.
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FrDavid96
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I prefer a dark, sweet red wine–as dark and as sweet as I can get it.
- I’m no fan of wine–I generally don’t like it at all, so the sweeter I can get it the better because I want mine to taste like grape juice.
- Red because it symbolizes the Blood.
- Red because it’s easy to tell which cruet has the wine and which one has the water. A very light colored white wine can easily cause confusion at the offertory. I once covered a neighboring parish where the pastor used white wine (to make things worse, the cruets were a sort of grey ceramic). At the offertory, I always had to discreetly sniff the cruets to make sure I had the right one. Note to self: don’t do it.
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TheMc
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In my MCing and personal preferences, I prefer red. Here’s my reasons:
- Like Fr. David, I simply like the taste much better
- You can tell the cruets apart very easily
- Should a younger server or other person ever spill a little bit of the precious blood (it’s happened once or twice), you can tell right away were it is.
- You can see very easily if purificators are used
- You can see if there is any on the altar cloths, and deal with it appropriately.
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Aelred_Minor
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I assumed that ordinary bread wheat, Triticum aestivum, was the only kind allowed. This is what we usually mean when we say “wheat” with no other qualifier. There are other species of Triticum, such as the durum wheat used for pasta, but would this be licit to use for the Eucharist? I didn’t think so, but on second thought I could be mistaken.
As I mentioned, for the first millennium and then some the Church, whether in Ireland or India, used wine made from the same species of grape, Vitis vinifera, which was also the only kind known to the ancient Jews. Upon the discovery of America several other useful related species were discovered, named and cultivated, the most important being the “fox grape”, the wild ancestor of Concord grapes. A few other North American species (one of which is different enough to sometimes be put in a different genus) and a Chinese/East Russian grape have also been used.
I would think, on the one hand, that the use of these grapes to make the wine, much less hybrids between them and Vitis vinifera, would not invalidate the Eucharist, considering that they are close enough to produce what most people would identify as grape wine if they saw and tasted it. Just like I doubt a little honey in the host will invalidate the Eucharist, assuming it’s still recognizably wheat bread. But I would also think that just like the Church forbids adding things like honey to the host to avoid the gray area entirely, they would want to consider limiting the definition of “grape wine” to wine made from the “Common Grape” aka “Wine Grape” aka “Grape”, Vitis vinifera.
As far as Latin names go, the species we call Vitis vinifera was the only “vitis”, the only grape, known to the Latins or any other ancient peoples of Europe or the Middle East. Linnaean taxonomy is a modern scientific invention. I doubt when the writers of Canon Law wrote the Latin version they were thinking of the genus name rather than just the Latin word for grape, vitis. A key indicator of if they meant the scientific genus would be if the word was capitalized and put in italics. In your quote neither is the case.
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MartyrForJesus
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The Jesuits make our sacramental wineI guess I am just lucky to live in a diocese that has it own winery!!
I would say that most parishes in our diocese use one of the wines that are available from this winery.
However, there are a few parishes that have “wine Sunday” where parishoners are encouraged to bring wine for use at Mass.
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YoungTradCath
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I don’t understand the second paragraph, because white wine can be nasty. nastier than the nastiest red wine, but that’s just my opinion.
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sarahq
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Wow this is all so interesting!!! Amazed at how many more churches use red wine. And some of you make good points about red wine being easier to distinguish from the water, and being easier to notice when it’s spilled. But you also make good points about white wine being easier to clean up. Thank you all for your responses!!
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TrueLight
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Wouldn’t red be the most obvious choice? Is there a reason why white would be chosen?
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Luna_Lovecraft
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Red, red, always red. I can’t ever remember attending a Mass where white was used.
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Oneofthewomen
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I have not seen this issue addressed yet, so I will throw it out there.
Red wine contains something called “tannins”, which some people are very sensitive to. I have this problem with some reds. Even a sip can cause my mouth to tingle, my ears to burn and make face turn bright red. It’s quite a site!!
As far as wine goes- either color has it’s spectrum from “dry” to sweet", so depending on your palate, some wines may taste better than others
From a pratical side, I see the benefits of using a blush or a red, but in the end, it really makes no difference to me. I am just happy that I live in a diocese that offers the Precious Blood to the laity!
Merry Christmas to all!!
Red wine contains something called “tannins”, which some people are very sensitive to. I have this problem with some reds. Even a sip can cause my mouth to tingle, my ears to burn and make face turn bright red. It’s quite a site!!
As far as wine goes- either color has it’s spectrum from “dry” to sweet", so depending on your palate, some wines may taste better than others
From a pratical side, I see the benefits of using a blush or a red, but in the end, it really makes no difference to me. I am just happy that I live in a diocese that offers the Precious Blood to the laity!
Merry Christmas to all!!
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Phemie
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As long as it’s wheat it’s OK. I know there is a difference between all-purpose flour in Canada and a.p flour in the US but I doubt Hosts made from one or the other would be invalid.
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FrDavid96
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Most of the time, there’s no reason at all.
What I’ve noticed is that most priests simply arrive at a new parish, use the wine that’s already there, and when they run short, re-order whatever was bought last time.
Since I don’t like wine to begin with (actually I dis-like it), I put more effort into choosing one.
A long time ago, I gave up on asking priests what kind of wine they were using because most answered “I don’t know, whatever is on the shelf.”
Most of the time, it’s simple inertia.
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Phemie
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Since the color of the wine doesn’t matter, I’ve experienced both pastors who ordered specifically by color, either for it’s sign value or cleaning ease, and those who had a taste preference.
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odile53
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Oneofthewomen has a link in her post to the winery in her diocese where sacramental wine is made. It’s one of the oldest wineries in New York State. I found out about it when I asked our deacon what wine was being used to confect the Eucharist after one Sunday Mass where they used a particularly smooth and balanced dry rose. I’m not all that much of a wine expert, but I know what I like, and only reverence for the Most Precious Blood kept me from downing the contents of the chalice, that’s how good it was! Only churches and clergy can purchase the sacramental wine, though. However, the vineyard does produce nonsacramental wine under a separate label, but they do not make a rose for general purchase.
According to what I read on the website, the wine that had been distributed as the Most Precious Blood was a dry pink chablis. I picked up a couple of Reislings (white wine) under their general purpose label, and they were pretty good. I suppose the next time I drive through the Finger Lakes, I’ll have to stop and try to find a pink chablis or chardonnay from a neighboring vineyard.
In regard to tannins frequently found in red wines, I’ve heard that they develop the longer a wine is aged in an oak barrel, and I don’t know if there’s a correlation with the amount of time that other particles, such as grape skins, are allowed to steep in the developing wine. There are lots of factors in how a wine is made, and really, it’s quite a fascinating art and science.
To those who might think my enthusiastic analysis irreverent, I’d like to mention this: Recall that Our Lord’s first public miracle was changing water into wine at the wedding feast of Cana, and recall what the wine steward told the bridegroom after sampling it: “You have saved the good wine for later.” Since Our Lord clearly believed in putting out the good stuff, I think it’s entirely fitting that a good wine be used in the Eucharist!
According to what I read on the website, the wine that had been distributed as the Most Precious Blood was a dry pink chablis. I picked up a couple of Reislings (white wine) under their general purpose label, and they were pretty good. I suppose the next time I drive through the Finger Lakes, I’ll have to stop and try to find a pink chablis or chardonnay from a neighboring vineyard.
In regard to tannins frequently found in red wines, I’ve heard that they develop the longer a wine is aged in an oak barrel, and I don’t know if there’s a correlation with the amount of time that other particles, such as grape skins, are allowed to steep in the developing wine. There are lots of factors in how a wine is made, and really, it’s quite a fascinating art and science.
To those who might think my enthusiastic analysis irreverent, I’d like to mention this: Recall that Our Lord’s first public miracle was changing water into wine at the wedding feast of Cana, and recall what the wine steward told the bridegroom after sampling it: “You have saved the good wine for later.” Since Our Lord clearly believed in putting out the good stuff, I think it’s entirely fitting that a good wine be used in the Eucharist!
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TrueLight
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Great post. It made me smile.
But wouldn’t the buyer of the wines, whoever that is, focus on an affordable wine? I couldn’t care less if it tastes good or not. It’s only a sip. The wafer isn’t exactly delicious either.
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FrDavid96
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Sacramental wines are all approximately the same price. They certainly vary, but not significantly. It’s not like we see the $4 bottles at one end of the store and the $500 bottles at the other (and the $2,000 ones in the back and you have to ask for them). The price differences just aren’t enough to truly matter.Great post. It made me smile.
But wouldn’t the buyer of the wines, whoever that is, focus on an affordable wine? I couldn’t care less if it tastes good or not. It’s only a sip. The wafer isn’t exactly delicious either.
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