Redemptive Suffering?

[Kadaffi20]

Hello. Could some kind soul please help me the understanding of this? And maybe ‘teach’ me how to do it? I want to understand how to suffer and how to offer it up. I also want to understand a little more about the meaning of it, I do know it is very powerful and that you can suffer for e.g the souls in Purgatory, conversion of sinners etc. Could someone please give me a “guide” on that matter? Btw… JPII’s article on Redemptive Suffering is pretty hard for me to understand…

Thanks! May Our Lord bless you!

 

[Lainey63]

Good morning! You can make the daily offering in the morning and sanctify your entire day. No matter what you don’t have to go look for suffering it will come to you. All the little annoyances that you encounter during the day can be offered up; like getting stuck in traffic, dealing with difficult people, getting in the express line at the grocery store which says only 10 or less items and the person in front of you has a full cart.

 

[Julia_Mae]

There’s a thread where this is addressed here: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=673744

In a nutshell: if you are suffering and you are angry or rejecting about it, it stays as something that belongs to you. But there is an alternative: you can accept your suffering. If you understand that by doing this you create “spiritual goods” that can be used by the Holy Spirit to lessen the suffering of another, then you can even be glad for it. You can see your pain as an opportunity for Grace and the chance to heal another, even if you must do this by fiath and not know the person who benefits.

How to do it? If you can identify others suffering worse than you are, if you can trust that God always has your best interests at heart and that your pain is part of His plan, then you are well on the way to accepting your situation in the name of charity and mercy and asking God to use it to benefit another.

That’s all you do.

 

[englishredrose]

And would like to add

It does not mean we go around showing our sufferings to others ie looking miserable or the whole world is against you (my inner bad habit). It means that you can turn it into joy by just being with God. Perhaps using that suffering to relate to others but not by saying how bad it is for you in comparison of them, but to be able to simply be with them in their suffering, ie as priests do when they are listening to us. They don’t judge or compare us to another. they are watchful when we are talking and smile when we say something more light heartedly and attentative when we are talking about something that is hurting us. They are simply there in compassion and they can do that because of their own experiences but don’t use it against us.

Redemptive Suffering is posh way of describing how one handles suffering in private and public. Can you let go of it etc. I find it hard but have a wonderful priest who listens and is teaching me how. slowly. ‘I have just realised from your posts’.

 

[fred_conty]

Hello. Could some kind soul please help me the understanding of this? And maybe ‘teach’ me how to do it? I want to understand how to suffer and how to offer it up. I also want to understand a little more about the meaning of it, I do know it is very powerful and that you can suffer for e.g the souls in Purgatory, conversion of sinners etc. Could someone please give me a “guide” on that matter? Btw… JPII’s article on Redemptive Suffering is pretty hard for me to understand…

Thanks! May Our Lord bless you!

You mentioned you want a “how to” guide.

You said you already know why by saying, “I do know it is very powerful and that you can suffer for e.g the souls in Purgatory, conversion of sinners etc”

Other “whys” are to make reparation to the heart of Jesus for indifference and abuse of him.
To show our sincerity in our sorrow for our sin.
For the world which does not know or care.
For graces for ourselves and others.
Many of the great saints offered their suffering for these reasons.
One of these saints is St. Faustina. In her Diary is contained a treasure chest of ideas.

The “what” kinds of suffering is all inclusive of what we go thru everyday in our lives.
I believe Laney explained the kinds we experience in our activities very well.

The “how” is the offering, or intention, to do these out of love for Jesus.
We see them as an opportunity to exorcise the virtues of faith, hope, and love.
Jesus sends them our way as question of our love, and we then answer one way or another.
So usually as we get out of bed in the morning, we make the act of love to him by offering all our ugly events, and our good events, and our plain events, everything, in his honor that day.
To please him in all that we do. In this way we make our whole day a prayer of committment to doing his will and of our desire to be with him…

And finally here is an idea from Benedict XVI Spe Salve encyclical.

There used to be a form of devotion—perhaps less practised today but quite widespread not long ago—that included the idea of “offering up” the minor daily hardships that continually strike at us like irritating “jabs”, thereby giving them a meaning… What does it mean to offer something up? Those who did so were convinced that they could insert these little annoyances into Christ’s great “com-passion” so that they somehow became part of the treasury of compassion so greatly needed by the human race. In this way, even the small inconveniences of daily life could acquire meaning and contribute to the economy of good and of human love.

Try it, I know you’ll like it.

 

[Kadaffi20]

You mentioned you want a “how to” guide.

You said you already know why by saying, “I do know it is very powerful and that you can suffer for e.g the souls in Purgatory, conversion of sinners etc”

Other “whys” are to make reparation to the heart of Jesus for indifference and abuse of him.
To show our sincerity in our sorrow for our sin.
For the world which does not know or care.
For graces for ourselves and others.
Many of the great saints offered their suffering for these reasons.
One of these saints is St. Faustina. In her Diary is contained a treasure chest of ideas.

The “what” kinds of suffering is all inclusive of what we go thru everyday in our lives.
I believe Laney explained the kinds we experience in our activities very well.

The “how” is the offering, or intention, to do these out of love for Jesus.
We see them as an opportunity to exorcise the virtues of faith, hope, and love.
Jesus sends them our way as question of our love, and we then answer one way or another.
So usually as we get out of bed in the morning, we make the act of love to him by offering all our ugly events, and our good events, and our plain events, everything, in his honor that day.
To please him in all that we do. In this way we make our whole day a prayer of committment to doing his will and of our desire to be with him…

And finally here is an idea from Benedict XVI Spe Salve encyclical.

There used to be a form of devotion—perhaps less practised today but quite widespread not long ago—that included the idea of “offering up” the minor daily hardships that continually strike at us like irritating “jabs”, thereby giving them a meaning… What does it mean to offer something up? Those who did so were convinced that they could insert these little annoyances into Christ’s great “com-passion” so that they somehow became part of the treasury of compassion so greatly needed by the human race. In this way, even the small inconveniences of daily life could acquire meaning and contribute to the economy of good and of human love.

Try it, I know you’ll like it.

Thanks for your answer, also, thank you all for your answers, very helpfull! So every morning when I wake up, as I’ve understood it I can simply say this prayer: “Heavenly Father, I offer up all of my sufferings both past, present, and future to You and in order to make them more acceptable to You I unite them with the sufferings of Your most beloved Son, Jesus Christ” …? And if I get hurt like 25 minutes after that prayer, do I have to pray it again or is it OK if I do it only once, when I wake up? Thank u all for your answers, very helpfull!!!

 

[Holly3278]

I have a question about redemptive suffering. If you complain about it to someone else or get upset about your suffering, you can still offer it up, right?

 

[fred_conty]

Here is one version of the morning offering prayer.

O Jesus, thru the Immaculate Heart of Mary, I offer you this day all my prayers, works and sufferings of this day for all the intentions of your Sacred Heart, in union with the holy sacrifice of the Mass throughout the world, in reparation for my sins, and for all the intentions of Mary.

The prayer may be said to suit your own wishes. Like you just gave…: “Heavenly Father, I offer up all of my sufferings both past, present, and future to You and in order to make them more acceptable to You I unite them with the sufferings of Your most beloved Son, Jesus Christ”

That is a very beautiful prayer.

May I suggest that you consider adding “works”. The reason is that even simple things like walking, or reading, and other simple acts then become prayers for the reason that we want to glorify and honor him in every way possible. Even little tiny things we seem to overlook become prayers because of our pure intention to love and please him. The intention is the toggle switch that we turn on and makes everyting pleasing in our Father’s eyes. Like a child who offers his mother a dandyline which means nothing in itself but touches the heart of the mother because it is a token of her child’s love.

The Father owns and has everything except one thing, our heart. Our love is what pleases him that is all we have to give him that is really ours.

Just a thought.

 

[Kadaffi20]

I have a question about redemptive suffering. If you complain about it to someone else or get upset about your suffering, you can still offer it up, right?

As I’ve understood it you have to be happy for that suffering you have. “Our first reaction whenever we have pain or misunderstanding should be, “I have it coming; I deserve it. It’s good for me.””

And if you complain about your suffering then want to offer that suffering which you complained about to God. It sounds pretty strange actually… You should not complain about suffering, look at me… I want to suffer real bad. I want more pain. I want you pain, Holly. Be happy for the pain you got.

 

[fred_conty]

I have a question about redemptive suffering. If you complain about it to someone else or get upset about your suffering, you can still offer it up, right?

Yes, but
the more love you pour into it the greater the worth.

The story of Job is the story of a man of God who knew how to handle suffering.
In the story he lost his family, wealth, health, friends.
Each time he suffered a loss he said, “blessed be the name of the Lord.”
That indeed was a real man of God. He never let the bad things break him.
He never complained but trusted in the Lord in all things.

St. Catherine of Siena in her book, Little Talks With God, said the same thing.
One day in a loqution she had with God, he said this to her.

“In the case of injuries done to you, judge that my will permits them in order to
prove virtue in you, and in my other servants. Esteem that one who acts in an
injurous manner does so as the instrument of my will. Such apparent sinners
may frequently have good intentions,…you should not judge in your mind, even
though externally it may be open, mortal sin.”

…“Otherwise you fall into contempt of your neighbor, if you judge his evil will
towards you, instead of acknowledging my will acting in him.”

…“because the soul remains always in the love of its neighbor, the soul remains
always in mine, and thus remains united to me.”

This is one of the hardest teachings to understand and even more difficult to accept.
…to love God in everything that comes to us and to see it as a blessing, regardless
of what happens. And this is what Job understood. “Blessed be the name of the Lord.”

Mother Teresa made a vow to always be cheerful in everything she did for God.
Her thought basis was “the Lord loves a cheerful giver.”

How do we feel about people who do things for us grudgingly?

Just a thought.

 

[Lainey63]

For me it has been a process so doing God’s will, which usually is doing what you’re supposed to be doing. Whether it be taking care of your children or going to work and doing the best job that you can etc. But also don’t think of everything as a task or even suffering.

Nothing happens without the Will of God and He will take you through it. Some things are pretty scarey for example if you have loved ones that are drug addicts.
Practicing being grateful and mediating on the Passion of Christ helps immensely. Everything is a matter of perspective when I think of Jesus as being a poor victim put to death by evil men then I am more likely to feel sorry for myself. Thinking that I am being unjustly treated or punished However, when I think that Jesus could have stopped the crucifixion at any time, he was determined to make it to the cross that’s why he kept getting up. He could have gotten off the cross, but He did not. That is “true” love.

Trusting in God, knowing that everything will be alright, fighting against negative thoughts of what “usually” therein lies the battle. Becoming as close to God as you can naturally brings one joy but joy is not always laughter but a peace and calm within.

Acceptance of suffering becomes easier with practice. Keep in mind that Jesus prayed asking the Father if it is possible to remove this chalice but also accepted the Father’s will.

I hop I’m not all over the place with this.

 

[Julia_Mae]

I have a question about redemptive suffering. If you complain about it to someone else or get upset about your suffering, you can still offer it up, right?

IMO it’s about the timing. Let’s say you have this initial reaction when you, say, sprain your ankle. But them n t you realize you are lucky to even have an ankle, much leas doctors to go to or people to complain to. So, you offer this up to God. Once you do that, however, the complaining and bad feelings about it, need to stop.

 

[nuntym]

+JMJ+

Pray this every time you suffer:

We adore You, O Christ, and we bless You,
Because by Your Holy Cross WE have redeemed the world.

 

[Kadaffi20]

Wow… I am really thankful for all of your answers! Thank you very much guys. Btw. I have a question about victim souls, I am praying that I want to be a victim soul to carry others burdens and sins for the conversion of sinners. Am I doing it right?

 

[Julia_Mae]

Wow… I am really thankful for all of your answers! Thank you very much guys. Btw. I have a question about victim souls, I am praying that I want to be a victim soul to carry others burdens and sins for the conversion of sinners. Am I doing it right?

To me, that’s between you and God, really. This may or may not be what He has in Mind for you. But if you really want this, you’d better get a spiritual director familiar with this. And you might want to think about a religious community. I think the trick is continuous acceptance of whatever you get and thankfulness to God for it.

DO NOT go get a hair shirt or start self-flagellation.

IMO, anyway.

 

[etmom]

As I’ve understood it you have to be happy for that suffering you have. “Our first reaction whenever we have pain or misunderstanding should be, “I have it coming; I deserve it. It’s good for me.””

.

Wow, so when my son died, I should have said “I have it coming, I deserve it?”. When he suffered greatly, as a baby, before his death, “he had it coming?” This is NOT my understanding, of redemptive suffering.

 

[BluesPicker]

Wow… I am really thankful for all of your answers! Thank you very much guys. Btw. I have a question about victim souls, I am praying that I want to be a victim soul to carry others burdens and sins for the conversion of sinners. Am I doing it right?

Below is a an excellent post found in the Traditional Catholocism section here at CAF. This is serious matter that one should not undertake alone. One really needs a spiritual director to make such an important choice.

BP

We must always remember that God is infinite, eternal and perfect love, that justice and mercy are attributes of love; justice requires giving and receiving that which one is due, mercy ameliorates (reduces or eliminates) negative consequences due to justice. Mercy, therefore, trumps justice. Jesus’ suffering first and foremost was an act of ultimate love for His Father. He accepted and obeyed completely His Father’s request to take on the sins of the world and make reparation for them. Making reparation for one’s own sins is an act of both love and justice due to God; it is an act of love because it is in obedience to God, it is an act of justice because reparation is owed to God. Making reparation for the sins of another, in unon with Christ, is an act of love and of mercy; it is an act of love both for God and for one’s neighbor. It is an act of love for God in that it demonstrates our desire to please God by honoring Him. It is an act of love toward one’s neighbor because we give of ourselves for the ultimate good of our neighbor. It is an act of mercy toward our neighbor because we take upon ourselves the just penalties due to another. By making such acts of love, justice and mercy for love of God we follow more closely in the footsteps of Jesus in union with whom we make our sacrifices.

The concept of a victim soul is not that of appeasing an angry and wrathful God. Rather, it is the concept of giving of oneself in love for the benefit of another for love of God. An analogy may be found in human terms alone. We say that a member of the military who dies in battle has made the ultimate sacrifice, the giving of one’s life. This sacrifice was willingly and voluntarily made, presumably, out of love for one’s country and, therefore, for one’s fellow citizens and for the good of the country and its people. This is the spirit behind the concept of victim souls. In a very real sense to some degree all of us are or can be victim souls. However, those who are especially chosen by God receive and accept more, sometimes continuous, opportunities of suffering on behalf of others. The more often and the more thoroughly one offers all of their sufferings in union with those of Jesus for the sake of others, the more one is a victim soul. One does not need to receive the stigmata in order to be a victim soul. Once some time ago my spiritual director said he had become convinced that I was a victim soul (a statement of which I made light by responding that I thought the suffering I bear was probably more as penance for my countless sins).

At least this is my understanding of the concept of victim souls. But there is one more aspect that I believe needs to be clarified. The protestant view appears to be that the passion of Jesus brought about the forgiveness of all our sins and with that forgiveness the waiving of the penalties due to sin. Thus, in the protestant view, there is no need for purgatory. However, I would remind us that when, at the Last Supper, Jesus consecrated the first Eucharist He said that the His blood would be shed that sins might be forgiven. He said nothing about shedding His blood so that penalties or punishment would be removed. Additionally, we need to understand that the temporal penalties due to sin have the purpose not of appeasing God’s wrath, but of purifying us by purging from us all taint of sin and sinfulness. It is, in efect, a process of sterilization so that we can enter the “clean room” of God’s presence without contaminating it for in the presence of God His holiness and sinfulness cannot coexist, the two are as differenct and incompatible as day and night. It is from this purging of sinfulness that purgatory gets its name and is the difference between hell and purgatory. The former is true and pure punishment. The latter is purification. However, this purification can take place now (in this life) or in purgatory after death. The voluntary suffering that we take on in unin with Christ for the sake of others aids in the purification process wherever it occurs. The merits we earn through our suffering are applied to those for whom we suffer.

In the Peace of Christ,
Brother Martin

 

[InJesusItrust]

My whole life has been one of suffering. Even when I did not believe in God I suffered much. Now I believe in God. Is my past suffering redemptive for other people or does it not count because I was an atheist? I believe I can handle suffering without losing faith and often pray that I become a victim soul. Has God heard my future prayers and applied such suffering to the past before I believed? Is such a thing possible?

 

[BluesPicker]

Below is a copy of a few paragraphs from “Spiritual Theology” by Fr. Jordan Aumann. Fr. Aumann’s articles and books are available as free download at the link below. Fr. Aumann works are very illuminating.

Chapter Seven of Spiritual Theology by Fr. Jordan Aumann, OP

"Offering Oneself as Victim. It would seem that it is impossible to go further in love of the Cross than to prefer sorrow to pleasure. Nevertheless, there is still another more perfect degree in the love of suffering: the act of offering oneself as a victim of expiation for the sins of the world. At the very outset, we must insist that this sublime act is completely above the ordinary way of grace. It would be a terrible presumption for a beginner or an imperfectly purified soul to place itself in this state. “To be called a victim is easy and it pleases self-love, but truly to be a victim demands a purity, a detachment from creatures, and a heroic abandonment to all kinds of suffering, to humiliation, to ineffable obscurity, that I would consider it either foolish or miraculous if one who is at the beginning of the spiritual life should attempt to do that which the divine Master did not do except by degrees.”

The theological basis of offering oneself as a victim of expiation for the salvation of souls or for any other supernatural motive such as reparation for the glory of God, liberating the souls in purgatory, attracting the divine mercy to the Church, the priesthood, one’s country, or a particular soul, is the supernatural solidarity established by God among the members of the Mystical Body of Christ, whether actual or potential. Presupposing the solidarity in Christ that is common to all Christians, God selects certain holy souls, and particularly those who have offered themselves knowingly for this work, so that by their merits and sacrifices they may contribute to the application of the merits of the redemption by Christ. A typical example of this can be found in St. Catherine of Siena, whose most ardent desire was to give her life for the Church. “The only cause of my death,” said the saint, “is my zeal for the Church of God, which devours and consumes me. Accept, O Lord, the sacrifices of my life for the Mystical Body of thy holy Church.” She was also a victim soul for particular individuals. Other examples of victim souls are St. Thérèse of Lisieux, St. Gemma Galgani, and Sister Elizabeth of the Trinity.

In practice, the offering of oneself as a victim for souls should never be permitted except to souls of whom the Holy Spirit asks it with a persistent and irresistible motion of grace. It should be noted that, rather than contributing to the sanctification of the individual (although it does add something), this particular act is ordained to the spiritual benefit of others. The soul that would give itself in this way for the salvation of others must itself be intimately united with God and must have traveled a long way toward its own perfection in charity. It must be a soul well schooled in suffering and even have a thirst for suffering. Under these conditions the spiritual director could prudently permit a soul to make this oblation of self as a victim soul. Then, if God accepts the offering, the soul can become a faithful reproduction of the divine Martyr of Calvary. "

BP

 

[Kadaffi20]

Wow, so when my son died, I should have said “I have it coming, I deserve it?”. When he suffered greatly, as a baby, before his death, “he had it coming?” This is NOT my understanding, of redemptive suffering.

A priest wrote that statement about redemptive suffering. Not myself.