Reference thread: False Rumors

[LBSDBS]

Since you guys talk allot about it, why not make a quick reference thread for false rumors about the Catholic church, just stating the rumor and a quick description of it’s falsehood for visitors to research on.

I don’t have much time right now but I will give you a few:

The Catholic church leads the world in sexual abuse.

As far as I know, there have never been any conclusive studies on this matter. This rumor is based entirely out of media hype. On the other hand, the Catholic rumor that the protestants make Catholic priests look like saints on this matter is also fiction. Again, no credible study on this has been done to date. At least, not that I have been able to find. The question of who sexually abuses more then who remains unanswered.
…

** The pope has the Hebrew number 666 on a piece of furniture, wall etc.**

This sort of thing is usually accompanied by false understanding for just what 666 is. In English, it’s 3 identical numbers. It doesn’t work that way in old Hebrew. If we are talking 3 identical numbers in old Hebrew, what you would have is something similar to three backwards " r "s. In other words, it would look like this but backwards: rrr. That however is the number 6 + 6+ 6 which = 18. The bible describes the number six hundred and sixty six, not six, six, six. There are two ways to print that number in old Hebrew, depending on what generation of mathematics we are using. I will use the old for example. Again, you will have to actually look up how the numbers look as they do not match the appearance of any English letters or numbers, but it will look something like this: 1OWW
The " 1 " represents the Hebrew character for 6, the “O” represents the Hebrew character for sixty (basically an upside down “Q”) and the "W"s represent the Hebrew character for 300 (A capitol “E” in the “W” position) W+W = 600. The later version has a number for 600, which is like a capitol D in an alternate angle. I looked and did not find any of this associated with the pope in any way.
I made a picture for a book I am writing showing the Antichrist flag (fiction for the story) which gives a realistic idea of what the “666” symbol might actually look like in real life. You can see it here:
img338.imageshack.us/img338/630/6662.jpg
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The Catholic Church taught that the world was flat.

This rumor was actually a work of fiction by Washington Irvine. Interestingly, the fictitious work reffed to Christopher Columbus having a nasty conflict with the Church, only for the Queen of Spain to take his side against the Catholic church. This was the very same queen who helped run the Spanish inquisition. Christopher Columbus having a dispute like that with the Church wouldn’t have panned out well for him. The Church never taught that the world was flat, and on the contrary, taught that the world was round long before Columbus. Lookouts on ship masts are based on the belief that the world is round. They wouldn’t have let a sea captain who believed the world is flat anywhere near the Santa Maria.

 

[DavidFilmer]

There were, for a time, ombudsmen in this forum who would respond to common questions. But I haven’t noticed such a post in some time.

 

[Mersenne]

As far as I know, there have never been any conclusive studies on this matter. This rumor is based entirely out of media hype. On the other hand, the Catholic rumor that the protestants make Catholic priests look like saints on this matter is also fiction. Again, no credible study on this has been done to date. At least, not that I have been able to find. The question of who sexually abuses more then who remains unanswered.

It’s not just the number of abuse cases. It’s the fact that the church continues to get caught protecting child molesters and helping them acquire new victims, up to the top of the entire system. It continues to do this to this day, and continues to vilify the victims. When you give money to the catholic church, part of that money knowingly goes into the hands of convicted child rapists. And the numbers only adequately reflect who gets caught. When you have a huge international network of powerful men protecting child rapists, covering their tracks, it’s not irrational to assume the real numbers are quite higher then are reflected in convicted cases.

 

[MarcoPolo]

When you give money to the catholic church, part of that money knowingly goes into the hands of convicted child rapists.

Could you helps us clean up the Church by identifying the names of the rapists who are taking our money?

 

[CentralFLJames]

It’s not just the number of abuse cases. It’s the fact that the church continues to get caught protecting child molesters and helping them acquire new victims, up to the top of the entire system. It continues to do this to this day, and continues to vilify the victims. When you give money to the catholic church, part of that money knowingly goes into the hands of convicted child rapists. And the numbers only adequately reflect who gets caught. When you have a huge international network of powerful men protecting child rapists, covering their tracks, it’s not irrational to assume the real numbers are quite higher then are reflected in convicted cases.

Are you playing devil’s advocate here and giving us an example of a false rumor or do you have some evidence here to present as a complaint? If the latter I’d like you to start a new OP and present your evidence.

I am sure you know that bearing false witness, slander and calumny are both a civil crime and grave spiritual matter that have consequences not only to the person or entity that is denigrated but also to the source of the false charge that must be paid sooner or later.

As it is currently, The Church has zero tolerance for sexual abusers and turns what evidence it has over to civil authorities anytime a case presents itself.

James

 

[Timmy_Z]

The bible describes the number six hundred and sixty six, not six, six, six. There are two ways to print that number in old Hebrew, depending on what generation of mathematics we are using.

The reference is in Revelations. Wouldn’t you need to address koine Greek instead of Hebrew?

 

[Mersenne]

Could you helps us clean up the Church by identifying the names of the rapists who are taking our money?

Oliver O’Grady, convicted child rapist, one of the most notorious catholic child rapist, got out of prison in 2000, was deported, and the catholic church put him up in Ireland with a family with children that had no idea of his past. This was still true in 2006. This wasn’t 30 years ago. This wasn’t some little oopsey that could be expected given the vast size of the organization, this is a systemic problem that goes all the way up to the top, and continues to this day.

 

[PaulF2]

It’s not just the number of abuse cases. It’s the fact that the church continues to get caught protecting child molesters and helping them acquire new victims, up to the top of the entire system. It continues to do this to this day, and continues to vilify the victims. When you give money to the catholic church, part of that money knowingly goes into the hands of convicted child rapists. And the numbers only adequately reflect who gets caught. When you have a huge international network of powerful men protecting child rapists, covering their tracks, it’s not irrational to assume the real numbers are quite higher then are reflected in convicted cases.

Mersenne, are there any other organization in the world you would judge by the actions of a few members? Would you seek to abolish the U.S. presidency because of the actions of GW Bush, Clinton, Nixon, or any of the others you may not care for?

When people reason as you do above, it is clear they are blinded by emotion. It is illogical.

My next question: Do you think you could name any organization in the history of the world that has done more for the poor and disadvantaged in the world then the Catholic Church? Do you think you could name an organization that has done 1% as much, over the last 2,000 years?

 

[CentralFLJames]

Oliver O’Grady, convicted child rapist, one of the most notorious catholic child rapist, got out of prison in 2000, was deported, and the catholic church put him up in Ireland with a family with children that had no idea of his past. This was still true in 2006. This wasn’t 30 years ago. This wasn’t some little oopsey that could be expected given the vast size of the organization, this is a systemic problem that goes all the way up to the top, and continues to this day.

You are just parroting the media anti-Catholic story line hook line and sinker. The secular media has a general contempt for the Catholic Church since the film industry is a rats nest for homosexuals and hates the Catholic Church for its stance against the immoral behaviors that homosexuals insist on forcing down everyone’s throats. Your information probably came from the movie “Deliver Us From Evil” by Amy J. Berg . I bet you didn’t know that the Irish were outraged over Berg’s exploitation of Irish children who she taped without any one’s consent did you? She herself in an ABC News Interview said O’Grady’s “got all the characteristics of a psychopath” and completely underminded the credibility and believability of her own documentary film. It seems everyone has a confessor mentality only in the eye of the public camera but never in the confessional box…

Who is abusing who here? The media is not a court of law and what has been reported in the documentary was all one sided by his disgraced priest.

Cardinal Mahony’s, his original bishop is clearly not squeaky clean himself but what he said through his spokesperson (Mr. Tamberg) has much more credibility than a publicly known psychopath and convicted pedophile:

*The film rests entirely on the credibility of a convicted child molester who lied to his bishop, to his therapists, to the families of the young people he abused and to law enforcement,” Mr. Tamberg said. “He is the classic pedophile. He lies to conceal his activity from public view.” *

If you are interested in the truth why would you expect a convicted child molester to tell the truth when he is the one who is gaining revenues for giving the interviews and the Church is never given any footage to give its perspective? We used to call this sort of thing a “witch hunt”.

Listen to this man’s warped mind as he tries to blame his bishop for his deviancy during his 2006 ABC News Interview (abcnews.go.com/Nightline/Story?id=2559272&page=1):

“I should have been removed and attended to,” O’Grady says. "And he should have also then followed up by attending to the people that I harmed.* I’d like** if he had done that." *

I can almost here the cash register ringing its so pathetic (chaching chaching $$, thank yor mr. O’Grady for this wonderful confession here’s a few quid for a Guiness or two to settle your nerves for having to live under that insenstive Catholc bishop that should have put you in prison sooner …" ).

This is a man hell bent on blaming anyone other than himself for his own deviancy and the media knows just how to play this kind of mentally ill mindset to attack the Catholic Church and get him talking to project anything he wants to fantasize about to make himself feel less a monster than he was.

When O’Grady was released from 7 years of prison he was DEPORTED to Ireland in 2000, his home country and was defrocked. The Church had nothing to do with that and did not try to hide him in Ireland like you say. He is in hiding now and being searched for by detectives who are trying to extradite him back to the USA for more charges. He is not a clergy of the Catholic Church anymore and is clearly a mentally ill, pedophile, psychopath.

Given that there are 1.2 billion people in the Catholic Church and about 400,000 Catholic priests world wide it is to be expected that a very few number of nut-jobs will fall through the system of checks and screening. The Church has in place newer procedures to make this sort of thing extremely rare but it can never be 100% prevented. One thing is clear - compared to non-Catholic Christians and secular abuses (especially spouse abuse) the incidence of Catholic clergy abuse are WAY UNDER the statistics of others. Yet we never hear of anyone going after these in court. The only reason the Catholic Church is persecuted is because the pro-choice and pro-homosexual media hates the church and because the lawyers know that they can make billions of dollars in settlement fees by forcing the church to sell property to pay for settlements.

James

 

[rpp]

Oliver O’Grady, convicted child rapist, one of the most notorious catholic child rapist, got out of prison in 2000, was deported, and the catholic church put him up in Ireland with a family with children that had no idea of his past. This was still true in 2006. This wasn’t 30 years ago. This wasn’t some little oopsey that could be expected given the vast size of the organization, this is a systemic problem that goes all the way up to the top, and continues to this day.

But public school teachers have a far worse record than Catholic priests. I every state that removed the statutes of limitations against the Church on these matters, they maintained protextions for public school teachers. So a despicable priest who molested children and a bishop whose deplorable actions hid him for a while will pay a penalty. However, that despicable teacher or coach whose molestations were hidden by his/her deplorable principal get away scott-free.

That priests and bishops did this is and was shameful. That public school teachers, coaches and their principals also do this, and largely get away with it and nobody does anything is far more profoundly disgusting.

 

[MarcoPolo]

the catholic church put him up in Ireland with a family with children that had no idea of his past.

That would be terrible if true…could you substantiate that? And could you also describe the route my money goes to O’Grady when I put it in the Sunday collection basket?

 

[Mersenne]

Mersenne, are there any other organization in the world you would judge by the actions of a few members? Would you seek to abolish the U.S. presidency because of the actions of GW Bush, Clinton, Nixon, or any of the others you may not care for?

When people reason as you do above, it is clear they are blinded by emotion. It is illogical.

If their leaders were elected for life, and the problem went all the way from the bottom to all the to the top, and they showed no remorse at all for their actions, yes, most reasonable people call for the destruction of such organizations. Organizations are destroyed for less then that all the time. In fact, I would say it is pretty clear you are the one blinded by emotion, you would never go out of your way to defend an organization that unrepentantly supports child rapists unless it was the catholic church.

My next question: Do you think you could name any organization in the history of the world that has done more for the poor and disadvantaged in the world then the Catholic Church? Do you think you could name an organization that has done 1% as much, over the last 2,000 years?

What has it done, exactly? Collect money from people and spend it on the poor and disadvantaged? Besides, secular organizations that do the same and do much more effectively. All the Catholic church does is funnel money away from organizations that could spend the money better, and do better things with it.

And what is the nature of this help exactly? Curing diseases? Inventing new technologies to help people? No, a few loaves of bread here and there, some shelter, mostly on the conditions that you obey the catholic church. In the grand scheme of things, I can name SINGLE INDIVIDUALS who have done vastly more in decades then the catholic church has done in 2,000 years. But media attention focuses on people like mother Teresa, who do nearly nothing, while most people don’t even know who Norman Borlaug is, who probably saved a billion people, and he didn’t know or care whether they adhered to his atheist beliefs. And then you have the nerve to claim the media is biased against the catholic church.

And that’s not even to name all the damage the catholic church does, for example opposing condom use.

 

[rpp]

This thread has been hijacked in record time!

 

[puppypatrol]

This thread has been hijacked in record time!

Boy, are you right there!!! I was amazed although it is a good example of “false rumor’s” and statements taken out of context and without knowing the whole story.

 

[puppypatrol]

But media attention focuses on people like mother Teresa, who do nearly nothing, while most people don’t even know who Norman Borlaug is, who probably saved a billion people, and he didn’t know or care whether they adhered to his atheist beliefs. And then you have the nerve to claim the media is biased against the catholic church.

By the way, he was well paid for doing his job by his employer, by foundations like the Rockefeller Foundation, several governments and also received what he wanted most, Fame and Recognition.

You compair apples and oranges.

 

[puppypatrol]

Oliver O’Grady, convicted child rapist, one of the most notorious catholic child rapist, got out of prison in 2000, was deported, and the catholic church put him up in Ireland with a family with children that had no idea of his past. This was still true in 2006. This wasn’t 30 years ago. This wasn’t some little oopsey that could be expected given the vast size of the organization, this is a systemic problem that goes all the way up to the top, and continues to this day.

Almost 60% of all reported cases of child sexual abuse are committed by immediate family members. The catagory that includes pastors, doctors, etc… are less than .3%.

Hummmmm, someone doesn’t have all the information.

 

[PaulF2]

Almost 60% of all reported cases of child sexual abuse are committed by immediate family members. The catagory that includes pastors, doctors, etc… are less than .3%.

Hummmmm, someone doesn’t have all the information.

You have to realize that rationalization is one of the strongest human drives. Most people, most of the time, will seek out information that supports their already-held beliefs and ignore whatever doesn’t.

Perhaps nowhere is such a drive more evident than in those who hate Christianity and especially (usually) the Catholic Church, the ‘pillar and foundation of truth’. Such people are frequently so tied to an emotional agenda that facts are quite useless.

You can’t ever make the horse drink.

 

[puppypatrol]

You have to realize that rationalization is one of the strongest human drives. Most people, most of the time, will seek out information that supports their already-held beliefs and ignore whatever doesn’t.

Perhaps nowhere is such a drive more evident than in those who hate Christianity and especially (usually) the Catholic Church, the ‘pillar and foundation of truth’. Such people are frequently so tied to an emotional agenda that facts are quite useless.

You can’t ever make the horse drink.

I agree. I have a lot of data on this subject (did research several years ago and I am in law enforcement) but it wouldn’t be worth the time and effort to spill it out to someone who doesn’t want to know the truth. Those people used to bother me but not anymore. I feel sory for them and pray for them that God with soften their heart.

 

[LBSDBS]

I agree. I have a lot of data on this subject (did research several years ago and I am in law enforcement) but it wouldn’t be worth the time and effort to spill it out to someone who doesn’t want to know the truth. Those people used to bother me but not anymore. I feel sory for them and pray for them that God with soften their heart.

This is just as strong in religion (including Catholic) as everyone else. The notion that you can choose to accept what you WANT to believe as true, expecting the universe to somehow conform to your wishes is something that I will never understand.

Targeting Catholic priests for sex abuse is universally known to be propaganda, and propaganda IS and is universally known to be deceptive by it’s very nature. You have to be completely out of your mind to buy it. Yes, that means that our country is full of people who are out if their minds. Popularity and trends lie. Facts don’t.

On top of that, belief it’s self is part of our automatic functions like sight, smell, hearing etc. “I CHOOSE to believe” is an impossible statement. What you do and don’t believe is NOT something we have control over, at least no further then our choice to learn. For instance, you can CHOOSE to walk to a street corner and see cars go by, but you have no control over what cars you see. The relationship between learning and believing works the same way. If you walk to a street corner and see a big rig truck go by, you will not be able to CHOOSE to HONESTLY BELIEVE that it’s a motorcycle.

 

[Thing]

Oliver O’Grady, convicted child rapist, one of the most notorious catholic child rapist, got out of prison in 2000, was deported, and the catholic church put him up in Ireland with a family with children that had no idea of his past. This was still true in 2006. This wasn’t 30 years ago. This wasn’t some little oopsey that could be expected given the vast size of the organization, this is a systemic problem that goes all the way up to the top, and continues to this day.

Hi,
97% of child abuse in that country is by non-religous. You must condemn society as a whole for 97% of these crimes, and accept that only 3% of child abuse happens through the actions of Catholic religous. The Catholic Church and its institutions are the safest place for our children, 97% safer in fact than our own homes and schools.