"Reflection: God, the utter fulfillment of personhood

[reen12]

Just reflecting on this. Would welcome reflections on
the following.

Sometimes, one is acutely aware of the immensity of God.
God as all in all.
A sense of puzzled yearning may evince. A sometimes
vague sense of ‘something is missing.’

“As a deer pines for running water, so does my soul
pine for Thee, O Lord.” [Psalm 42]

One Catholic author, of our own time, wrote of this sense of lack:
We are triadic creatures in a diadic world.
And any diadic ‘remedy’ fails to fill, because we are triadic creatures, of body, soul, intellect.

Born of earth humus] - breath breathed into us by God Himself,
we yearn to be reunited with the Ground of being Who created us,
the Ground of all that exists. Not at all to ‘disappear’ in Him, [C.S. Lewis noted this]
rather, we will then be - fully - the utterly unique self, whom He created,
and never more so.
A singularity, of sorts.

In the NT, Paul avers to that which is to come:

“Then I shall know, even as I am known.” [1Cor 12:13]

I have maintained, for decades, that if one achieves all of the
wishes and the intentions of one’s youth, this makes this yearning
particularly acute - for nothing [no-thing] may fulfill [make ‘full’] this yearning -
neither other people, nor what we do, nor the goods of this life.

“You have made us for Yourself, O Lord, and our hearts are
restless, til they rest in Thee.” [Augustine]

God, alone, is the utter fulfillment of personhood. He, giving us a ‘weight of glory’ -
when we will no longer see - "through a glass, darkly’ - rather we shall see, ‘Face to face.’ [1Cor 12]

reen12

 

[ncjohn]

I’m trying to get my arms around this idea enough to even begin to put words to it. It is a concept I have come to know is inherently true, yet struggle daily to figure out even small parts of how to come to the level of trust necessary to allow God to be that fulfillment.

I have maintained, for decades, that if one achieves all of the
wishes and the intentions of one’s youth, this makes this yearning
particularly acute - for nothing [no-thing] may fulfill [make ‘full’] this yearning -
neither other people, nor what we do, nor the goods of this life.

This part certainly is most completely true, however much our ego might like to think otherwise. We have a tendency to spend our lives “looking for love in all the wrong places”, making all kinds of things god that aren’t God at all. Often these things are even apparent “good things”, such as our devotion to some philanthropic cuase or charitable endeavor.

I was listening to a talk this morning from a woman who was relating parts of what she felt when her husband and young daughter were killed by a drunk driver. In the midst of her grief, she was to give birth to their second daughter, which she wanted to do naturally, but which was apparently going to have to be caesarian. In her distress she cries out to God “What do you WANT?” His answer is that he wants all of her.

It is that “all” that I think scares us so much. We want to keep one foot on the “safe” side of the fence just in case it doesn’t turn out to be what He promises, while paradoxically at the same time WANTING to let it all go and fall into His arms.

I think for most of us we have to reach that point of total desperation to even have a chance to get there. As the great philosopher Janis Joplin stated in Me and Bobby McGee, “Freedom’s just another word for nothing left to lose.” We just have to reach that point of having nothing left to lose to be willing to even consider the freedom it could offer.

For all that I might wish that I could totally surrender to what God really wants me to be, the fact is that fear and lack of trust make that excruciatingly difficult.

But I’m working on it, dusty halo and all.

 

[SirOscar]

For all that I might wish that I could totally surrender to what God really wants me to be, the fact is that fear and lack of trust make that excruciatingly difficult.

God is within all of us, he is part of who we are.

3 years ago I surrendered to God. I had nothing left to lose, so to speak.

When one surrenders to God, in effect, one surrenders to themselves… to rid themselves of the barriers the ego has set in place. The ego is our false self. By surrendering, we ultimately give our false self permission “to die” and allow ourselves union with God so that we may fully be who He intends us to be.

It causes great conflict, great fear, to the point of panic attacks, (for me) because I knew I was no longer in control of my journey in this life.

There is a natural fear of the unknown, one needs to overcome.

It is beautiful journey but also one of hell. It still is as I have lots to overcome. I experience triumph in the smallest success, wisdom beyond all comprehension, and ultimately a union with God that I have never thought imaginable.

I still have much fear, but I also trust where God is leading me. He is Truth, and will not lead me astray. This is what I trust, so I take the small steps despite the fear and anxiety.

After all is done, peace remains, and I think to myself, “That wasn’t so bad, what was I so afraid of.” It makes the next step that much easier to take.

Keep plugging at it. Little by little, you will begin to trust, you will stop living in fear and you will find God at the core of your existence.

HE IS IN ALL OF US.

Allow yourself to die…and you will never be the same

 

[John_Russell_Jr]

I have always loved that quote you make from St Augustine. we can never be fully satisfied in this life. We were made for heaven. Everything we do is done to try and fill this need for heaven. Heaven is of course God himself. Even our sins are done to try and fill this need. Everything is done to try and fill this need. Some people get small foretastes of heaven in prayer. But this seems to only make the yearning greater. I hope I make it. And I pray I only try to fill this yearning with what can satisfy it and understand that it can only be fully satisfied in heaven.

 

[reen12]

quote: ncjohn

I’m trying to get my arms around this idea enough to even begin to put words to it. It is a concept I have come to know is inherently true, yet struggle daily to figure out even small parts of how to come to the level of trust necessary to allow

God to be that fulfillment.
What I wrote lacked clarity, I think, John.
My whole point is that, nothing - in this life - can bring utter fulfillment of personhood.
Only in eternal life, may this be realized. “Through Him, and with Him, and in Him…”

That’s why reported mystical experience is so rare. And even then,
such experience is relatively brief.
[We would not be able to bear the ‘weight of glory’ - were this extended.]
As it is, God has to ‘shield’ a human being, with His hand - for a human to withstand
even this momentary ‘weight,’ of His presence.

Those, given a foretaste of His full presence, are termed ‘mystics.’

Yet many, I hold, are awash with this weight of glory - when He allows this to spill over,
into this life, if only for a moment. Perhaps one moment, in a lifetime.
But this sure and certain - this direct experience of His presence,
remains, too - for that same lifetime.

What I do know is this. I now know how quickly 60 years may fly by.
Whatever we endure here, is but an augenblick - a ‘blink of the eyes’ -
and He awaits us - in His divine splendor - to be our all in all, in eternal joy.
Where the questions will die on our lips, and we will see Him and know -
both that He loved us, and how, in each moment of our life, He was there.

Look at the birds in the sky; they do not sow or reap, they gather nothing into barns,
yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are not you more important than they? [Matt. 6]

I didn’t know this, Lord. Not really. I thought that I knew this,
but I didn’t. Have pity and mercy on each of us, as we make
our way back to You. I am glad that You told us stories,
for they are easier to remember. That’s probably why You
told them. http://bestsmileys.com/nono/9.gif

reens

 

[MarieVeronica]

Hi reens I think St. Augustine summed it up beautifully, when he wrote:

“Our hearts are restless until they rest in Thee, O Lord”.

As a person ages, often… we are blessed with a perception of how “empty” life can be… if you do not have God. This has been my own experience, anyway. And I feel blessed. This “perception” is also increasingly felt… of how worthless the pursuits of daily life can be… if God is not at the center of it all.

God bless.

 

[John_Russell_Jr]

quote: ncjohn

What I wrote lacked clarity, I think, John.
My whole point is that, nothing - in this life - can bring utter fulfillment of personhood.
Only in eternal life, may this be realized. “Through Him, and with Him, and in Him…”

That’s why reported mystical experience is so rare. And even then,
such experience is relatively brief.
[We would not be able to bear the ‘weight of glory’ - were this extended.]
As it is, God has to ‘shield’ a human being, with His hand - for a human to withstand
even this momentary ‘weight,’ of His presence.

Those, given a foretaste of His full presence, are termed ‘mystics.’

Yet many, I hold, are awash with this weight of glory - when He allows this to spill over,
into this life, if only for a moment. Perhaps one moment, in a lifetime.
But this sure and certain - this direct experience of His presence,
remains, too - for that same lifetime.

What I do know is this. I now know how quickly 60 years may fly by.
Whatever we endure here, is but an augenblick - a ‘blink of the eyes’ -
and He awaits us - in His divine splendor - to be our all in all, in eternal joy.
Where the questions will die on our lips, and we will see Him and know -
both that He loved us, and how, in each moment of our life, He was there.

Look at the birds in the sky; they do not sow or reap, they gather nothing into barns,
yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are not you more important than they? [Matt. 6]

I didn’t know this, Lord. Not really. I thought that I knew this,
but I didn’t. Have pity and mercy on each of us, as we make
our way back to You. I am glad that You told us stories,
for they are easier to remember. That’s probably why You
told them. http://bestsmileys.com/nono/9.gif

reens

Hi, I have often pondered your scripture quote about the birds of the air, God feeds them etc.
I sort of have my understanding that we should not worry and trust in God no matter what but what about people who know, love and serve God in the third world who die of hunger on the side of the street? I have my personal experience of Gods providence and live in a wealthy country and have never wanted for anything materially. But others don’t have the experience I’ve had so far with all my blessings. I know justice will be done in the end but this has often troubled me that some people don’t get fed without worrying and have a miserable life in this world. Do you or any others have thoughts or advice on this question of mine? Do other people worry, or have complete trust in God?

 

[reen12]

quote: MarieVeronica

Hi reens I think St. Augustine summed it up beautifully, when he wrote:

“Our hearts are restless until they rest in Thee, O Lord”.

As a person ages, often… we are blessed with a perception of how “empty” life can be… if you do not have God. This has been my own experience, anyway. And I feel blessed. This “perception” is also increasingly felt… of how worthless the pursuits of daily life can be… if God is not at the center of it all.

Hello, MarieVeronica, Good to hear from you.

The perception of His presence increases, and trust increases, as well, I find.
As if this is God’s gift, to those now aging.
As our own powers diminish - and limitations of all kinds increase -
it’s almost as if He were saying “Do you see, now? You are meant for eternal life -
where aging and limitation and death no longer exist. Be not afraid…
You are safe, in the palm of My hand.”

A few months ago, I suddenly lost half of the vision, in my right eye. [had it checked - all OK]
Waves of translucent light blocked vision. This lasted for several minutes.
For a moment, I wondered if this were a prelude to a stroke. I stood up, and this blessed calm and peace washed over me.
I knew, in an instant, that whatever happened, it would be alright. That God is in His heaven,
and all would be well. The sure and certain knowledge, that came, remains with me.
God truly does have the whole world in His hands.

For those of us, born many decades ago -

All will be well, and all manner of things will be well.
-Julian of Norwich

if we but trust Him.

reens

 

[reen12]

quote: John Russell Jr

Hi, I have often pondered your scripture quote about the birds of the air, God feeds them etc.
I sort of have my understanding that we should not worry and trust in God no matter what but what about people who know, love and serve God in the third world who die of hunger on the side of the street? I have my personal experience of Gods providence and live in a wealthy country and have never wanted for anything materially. But others don’t have the experience I’ve had so far with all my blessings. I know justice will be done in the end but this has often troubled me that some people don’t get fed without worrying and have a miserable life in this world. Do you or any others have thoughts or advice on this question of mine? Do other people worry, or have complete trust in God?

Sometimes, questions similar to your own, arise, and I am inundated by doubt -
and even anger at God, that such harsh realities exist.
It is at these times, and they are frequent, that doubts surge, about His ‘eternal plan.’
I find arguments, defending God’s ‘permissive will,’ and so on, near unendurable, then.

I posted on this, last week, expressing my thoughts in the following thread,
starting at post # 55.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=245899

Only the replies of BarbaraTherese made sense to me.
[posts # 63 and 66, in that thread.]

Yes, other people do worry, about that which you noted, John.

I recall Mother Teresa saying that we should each look about, in
our own communities, and do our best to bring relief of suffering
right there.

And you know what this reminds me of? C.S. Lewis once wrote
about our place in the ‘line of battle.’ God places each of us, in time - with intention.
It is no ‘accident’ that we are born where we’re born, at the time of His choosing.
Where is my place, in the ‘line of battle’? What does God call me to do?
Why did He place me in time, now?

And - as in any battle, the sound and the fury of same can make one
tremble to the base of being. “What is happening, over there?”
The mind may become overwhelmed and confused. So one just
bears down, even harder, in their own place, in the line of battle - doing whatever
one can, to relieve suffering, where he/she is placed. This is where trust in God
is the sole option. And the soul’s option.
St. Paul [of whom I am not too fond] pointed out that we battle
‘powers and principalites’. I think not often, of this. I would lose courage.

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities,
against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world…
Ephesians 6:12.

And the odd thing is, if we are not to let the sound and fury of the battle overwhelm us,
we need to ask grace - of Him Whom I am questioning, to begin with.

As for myself, if I look beyond my own nose, in this, I begin to become
overwhelmed. Maybe this is why God made each of us, as He did.
Someone once wrote that human beings are not made - to hear of
terrible things, everywhere. This is a wholly modern phenomenon,
of the age of instant communication. My mind begins to buckle,
seeing this raw suffering all over the earth. And 'earth" = humus,
and humus is the root of ‘humility.’ If I would keep my mind and my heart,
on the little patch of earth, wherein I reside, serving Him there,
then humility becomes the operative virtue for me, when the sorrow
and the suffering and the horrible loss, over His world, is seen.

Just my thought, John.

reen

 

[spauline]

Hi, I have often pondered your scripture quote about the birds of the air, God feeds them etc.
I sort of have my understanding that we should not worry and trust in God no matter what but what about people who know, love and serve God in the third world who die of hunger on the side of the street? I have my personal experience of Gods providence and live in a wealthy country and have never wanted for anything materially. But others don’t have the experience I’ve had so far with all my blessings. I know justice will be done in the end but this has often troubled me that some people don’t get fed without worrying and have a miserable life in this world. Do you or any others have thoughts or advice on this question of mine? Do other people worry, or have complete trust in God?

St. Maximillian Kolbe VOLUNTARILY starved to save a man.

what then shall we say, of those who suffer involuntarily? Did they deserve it? Perhaps, but usually not. If we suffer, and we cannot do anything reasonable or lawful to prevent it, what shall we say except offer it up to merit graces for sinners.

We have to take Scripture in context, for the same Christ who said, “and all these things shall be given unto you” also said, “and fear not them who can kill the body and then do no more harm. Rather, fear him who has the power to kill both body and soul in gehenna.”

No serious Christian can claim that if they merely remain faithful to the Gospel, that they shall always have a full stomach and a roof over their head, and a shirt on their back. That is misinterpretation, and thinking as do the heretics.

If we are blessed with enough to eat and then some, we are called to share. If we starve, and cannot change it reasonably, we are called to offer it up to God for the conversion of sinners, beginning with what would be the villians who might oppress us.

Therefore, no suffering need be wasted. Every suffering is an opportunity to merit grace for ourselves and others.

This is what Our Lady of Fatima asks for: offer up your whole lives unto God, and come what may, if you offer it all in love to Mary and Jesus, you have the comfort that nothing you do is wasted, it is all fruitful toward salvation.

 

[spauline]

the four levels of happiness:

I. Materialistic Possessions and Pleasures
II. Egotistical Accomplishments
III. Intimate relationships of Love with other human creatures
IV. Intimate relationship with God

The first and second world societies of today consider the only things worth living for to be the first two levels.

Only in the third level are we beginning true happiness.

But only the fourth provides the possibilty that we may share this intimate love forever with Him and our loveds ones, and all the righteous of all time.

 

[reen12]

quote: spauline

No serious Christian can claim that if they merely remain faithful to the Gospel, that they shall always have a full stomach and a roof over their head, and a shirt on their back. That is misinterpretation, and thinking as do the heretics.

I do find it of interest, that Jesus chose to cast
a Samaritan - a ‘heretic’! - as the hero, in the parable of
The Good Samaritan. Apparently, His hearers were not pleased.

youtube.com/watch?v=PHpye0M34JQ&feature=related

The Lord has promised good to me…
His word my hope secures.
He will my shield and portion be…
as long as life endures.

reen12 :tiphat:

 

[spauline]

quote: spauline

I do find it of interest, that Jesus chose to cast
a Samaritan - a ‘heretic’! - as the hero, in the parable of
The Good Samaritan. Apparently, His hearers were not pleased.

youtube.com/watch?v=PHpye0M34JQ&feature=related

The Lord has promised good to me…
His word my hope secures.
He will my shield and portion be…
as long as life endures.

reen12 :tiphat:

i’m sorry, reen, am I missing something? I don’t understand your point? Are you saying that all starving people and homeless “don’t have enough faith, or are sinning, and deserve it? Or that Maximillian Kolbe would’ve had a full stomach if he had had the sense to not voluntary for a man with a family?”

Are you saying that you subscribe to heresy, like Protestant thinking in this regard?

 

[reen12]

quote: spauline

i’m sorry, reen, am I missing something? I don’t understand your point? Are you saying that all starving people and homeless “don’t have enough faith, or are sinning, and deserve it? Or that Maximillian Kolbe would’ve had a full stomach if he had had the sense to not voluntary for a man with a family?”

Are you saying that you subscribe to heresy, like Protestant thinking in this regard?

-Why do you think that Jesus chose to cast a ‘heretic’ in the
role of the Good Samaritan, in His parable?
-What do you think that He was trying to teach, by so doing?

reen12

 

[BarbaraTherese]

quote: spauline

-Why do you think that Jesus chose to cast a ‘heretic’ in the
role of the Good Samaritan, in His parable?
-What do you think that He was trying to teach, by so doing?

reen12

… Excellent answer, Reen!..

 

[spauline]

quote: spauline

-Why do you think that Jesus chose to cast a ‘heretic’ in the
role of the Good Samaritan, in His parable?
-What do you think that He was trying to teach, by so doing?

reen12

I think he is pointing out that there can be good heretics [material ones], and that persons of the true faith can be hypocrites.

By the word heretic, I was referring to a particular type of modern heretic, namely, a pharisaical evangelical who thinks that if **** happens to somebody, it is because they deserve it, and that if only they would repent, they would get a job and find a house.

 

[reen12]

quote: spauline

I think he is pointing out that there can be good heretics [material ones], and that persons of the true faith can be hypocrites.

Thank you for replying to my questions, spauline. I appreciate it.
I wonder if Jesus was not conveying the thought that each person must be seen, first -
as an individual - before being ‘described’ as part of a given group. e.g. -Samaritan = ‘heretic.’
[Same thing, in terms of the centurion.]

Do you have a thought on the following?
My understanding of evangelical thought is:
Once accept Jesus, as one’s personal Savior -and no matter
what happens in life, one can go forward, in trust - the attitude being:
I know that my Redeemer lives.
This is radical trust in God.

reen12

 

[spauline]

quote: spauline

Thank you for replying to my questions, spauline. I appreciate it.
I wonder if Jesus was not conveying the thought that each person must be seen, first -
as an individual - before being ‘described’ as part of a given group. e.g. -Samaritan = ‘heretic.’
[Same thing, in terms of the centurion.]

Do you have a thought on the following?
My understanding of evangelical thought is:
Once accept Jesus, as one’s personal Savior -and no matter
what happens in life, one can go forward, in trust - the attitude being:
I know that my Redeemer lives.
This is radical trust in God.

reen12

Dear reen,

thank you for clarifying. I do believe that every person is first and foremost created in the image and likeness of God, and hence priceless.

Perhaps, then, I should refrain from using such harsh words. I just get frustrated at people who have the nerve to think that when other people suffer, it is because “they don’t have enough faith.” Obviously, as you indicate, not all evangelicals subscribe to the notion of “if you are faithful to Jesus, you will prosper materialistically, and if you are not, you will suffer.” Obviously not.

and yet, in many cases they do. I have heard one such Christian tell me once that the reason that people suffer terribly is because they don’t have enough faith. that really ticks me off.

Catholicism is the most beautiful religion because it offers hope to those who suffer, and calls on all persons, no matter their particular cross, to unite to Christ’s and offer our trials to God for our own sanctification and those of others.

but because of the deficiencies of Protestant theology regarding justification and merit, they are many times not able to accept the notion that our sufferings can participate in Christ’s and be used, by His Love in us, to help redeem others.

I suppose that I should not speak so harshly about this, I think there are so many evangelicals who put to shame typical Catholics in their zealousness and faithfulness to Jesus as best as they understand Him.

But I think the key to looking at the verse, “and all these things shall be added unto you,” is not to presume that you will literally have what you need physically, but that Jesus is present to you in all moments, in your good times and bad. If you cling unto Him, you can get through whatever cross He wants you to carry.

But perhaps this is what you really meant all along, and if I have been too dumb to see this, I ask you to forgive me, in that I misunderstood you.

Thank you listening to my rant, Reen, and God bless you.

Scott

 

[tessi]

what about people who know, love and serve God in the third world who die of hunger on the side of the street?

I’m sure if you know, love and serve God you won’t die from hunger in the street.

 

[reen12]

Hello, Scott. Was so appreciative of your post.
[Hurrying out the door for physical therapy, having
thrown my back out, last Saturday.]
Looking forward to replying to that which you wrote.
[have been known to deliver a bit of rant, now and then,
myself. ]

reen