Reflections on International Womens' Day

[SuperLuigi]

I have been wondering whether to post about this for a couple of days!

I’m really disappointed in the way the company I work for has marked International Women’s Day. Personally, I’m not a huge fan of having an IWD in the first place. I’d rather there was an international Love Thy Neighbour as Thyself Day instead - regardless of gender, race, orientation etc.

If our company intranet had featured stories drawing our attention to issues of real and serious injustices towards women around the world today and some stories of women who have achieved great things in science, arts and politics i.e. some inspirational role models, then I’d have been more accepting about it all.

However, in our company, we are extremely short-staffed and faced with huge changes in the way we deliver our work because of the political climate. This is a time of limited resources, where all pulling together, focussing on our goals and working as a team has never been more important. drawing atention specifically to one gender at a time like this is, I feel, not just a waste of time, but also devisive.

It’s not just devisive between men and women either. The women within the company who were chosen for a special IWD feature on the intranet were all working mothers. Now, I have to stress, I have no problem with working mothers in principle and I feel this is a very personal choice that is nobody’s business to comment on. For some it is a choice motivated by financial necessity and for others it is a lifestyle choice - but in every case, it isn’t really anyone else’s concern.

To me, work is a place where I come to get the job done to the best of my ability. One of the strengths about this company is that we come from a variety of backgrounds and have a real mix of politcial, ethical and spritual beliefs, but at work, we’re all here for a common purpose and we work well as a team.

The articles that went up on the Intranet on IWD were all very smug, preachy and self-congratulatory accounts of how women had ‘put themselves first’ and taken promotion opportunities that meant they missed seeing their children develop. One lady wrote, “we were in London at the time. My wage would barely cover childcare, but it was impotrant to me that** I **progressed in my career.” Another gushed “My husband sees the children off to school and when I get home, I see them a couple of hours and then I willingly get my laptop out again when they are in bed, for a couple of hours” All very noble if you are struggling to make ends meet, but this was someone at almost the top of the tree! She’s also someone who colleagues can never get hold of, because her hours are so ‘flexible’ that (like many other working mothers here) she is allowed to contravene the contractual arranagement that working hours are any 8 between 7am and 7pm.

The whole focus of IWD was about women being able to get what they want and not feeling bad about the impact on their family life or their colleagues and I found it all very ‘Thought Police’.

There are some wonderful and dedicated women in this company who really have chosen, either by real choice, or lack of opportunity / confidence / who knows? to devote their lives to their careers. They are always available and have never demanded more flexibility or concessions. There are women (and men) who desperately want to become parents, but for whatever reason, can’t. There are also many women who have chosen to take a hit in income but go part-time, or decline promotion opportunities because they want to maintain a balanced work and home life. There are women who are grateful for flexible working arrangements because they are looking after infirm of elderly parents…

It just drives me mad that the ladies selected to represent all that is ‘brilliant’ about modern womanhood are the ones who present their stories as ‘look how well I am doing! Look how I get what I want!’ and not the ones who truly demonstrate kindness, compassion and courage in the workplace - regardless of their marital status, orientation, ability to conceive or anything else.

Interestingly, none of the ‘role model’ women were single mothers. All had working spouses and were in positions within the organisation that afforded them very good sallaries.

It’s just another reason why the secular First World is dying.

 

[SuperLuigi]

it isn’t actually a day of breast beating over oppression in poor countries or even a day of feminist consciousness raising

Please see the original post and re-evaluate.

 

[Xantippe]

Please see the original post and re-evaluate.

…in countries where International Women’s Day is a traditional, popular holiday that people actually celebrate and buy stuff for.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

That is ridiculous. I know of at least one family where a woman was a nurse and quit her job to be at home with her kids.

The idea that stay-at-home moms can’t be as educated as working women is a false narrative put forth by feminist secularists.

Also, I don’t see anyone “allowing” stay-at-home Moms exist except in their private decision-making.

I didn’t say they couldn’t be educated. I said that in the West, when we celebrate the accomplishments of women (or anyone), we judge them based on what they do. We don’t consider being a father an accomplishment. It’s beautiful, nobel, and very rewarding, but it isn’t an accomplishment. Same with being a mother. A mother can be very accomplished, even a SAHM, but being a mom and raising children is just not an accomplishment.

Women can’t have it both ways. We can’t demand respect for our accomplishments and at the same time say that we should receive the same accolades for having a child and responsibly caring for it. If you’re going to be a SAHM, great! But don’t tell me that I should be as impressed, or celebrate what you’ve done, when virtually any woman can do it. And in fact, throughout history, most women have.

 

[Dulcie]

I didn’t say they couldn’t be educated. I said that in the West, when we celebrate the accomplishments of women (or anyone), we judge them based on what they do. We don’t consider being a father an accomplishment. It’s beautiful, nobel, and very rewarding, but it isn’t an accomplishment. Same with being a mother. A mother can be very accomplished, even a SAHM, but being a mom and raising children is just not an accomplishment.

Women can’t have it both ways. We can’t demand respect for our accomplishments and at the same time say that we should receive the same accolades for having a child and responsibly caring for it. If you’re going to be a SAHM, great! But don’t tell me that I should be as impressed, or celebrate what you’ve done, when virtually any woman can do it. And in fact, throughout history, most women have.

That does cut both ways, though. A woman in paid employment can be very accomplished in herself, but having a job and going to work is not an accomplishment either. Almost any woman can do it, and most women do.

For me the more relevant question is not “is being X an accomplishment” but “is this work valuable and worthy of respect in itself? And if so, is this woman doing a good or even outstanding job in that role insofar as her individual abilities allow her?” If so, that is an accomplishment.

(Also, I would certainly regard being a good father as an accomplishment. It takes work, dedication, patience, self-sacrifice, and a whole host of other moral and personal qualities which are not automatically displayed by all men.)

 

[Xantippe]

I didn’t say they couldn’t be educated. I said that in the West, when we celebrate the accomplishments of women (or anyone), we judge them based on what they do. We don’t consider being a father an accomplishment. It’s beautiful, nobel, and very rewarding, but it isn’t an accomplishment. Same with being a mother. A mother can be very accomplished, even a SAHM, but being a mom and raising children is just not an accomplishment.

Women can’t have it both ways. We can’t demand respect for our accomplishments and at the same time say that we should receive the same accolades for having a child and responsibly caring for it. If you’re going to be a SAHM, great! But don’t tell me that I should be as impressed, or celebrate what you’ve done, when virtually any woman can do it. And in fact, throughout history, most women have.

I think you need to read more about bad families.

Almost anybody can (biologically) become a mother or father, but keeping children alive is more involved than that, and being a decent parent is much, much more complicated.

If parenting is nothing, then on what grounds do we criticize bad or selfish parents?

Also, if parenting is a totally trivial activity, why does anybody choose not to have children? Why don’t they have a dozen? It’s no trouble at all–anybody can do it.

No project that takes 18+ years can be entirely trivial.

 

[Xantippe]

That does cut both ways, though. A woman in paid employment can be very accomplished in herself, but having a job and going to work is not an accomplishment either. Almost any woman can do it, and most women do. **
**
For me the more relevant question is not “is being X an accomplishment” but "is this work valuable and worthy of respect in itself? **And if so, is this woman doing a good or even outstanding job in that role insofar as her individual abilities allow her?" If so, that is an accomplishment. **

(Also, I would certainly regard being a good father as an accomplishment. It takes work, dedication, patience, self-sacrifice, and a whole host of other moral and personal qualities which are not automatically displayed by all men.)

Right.

 

[heidi_storage]

I didn’t say they couldn’t be educated. I said that in the West, when we celebrate the accomplishments of women (or anyone), we judge them based on what they do. We don’t consider being a father an accomplishment. It’s beautiful, nobel, and very rewarding, but it isn’t an accomplishment. Same with being a mother. A mother can be very accomplished, even a SAHM, but being a mom and raising children is just not an accomplishment.

Women can’t have it both ways. We can’t demand respect for our accomplishments and at the same time say that we should receive the same accolades for having a child and responsibly caring for it. If you’re going to be a SAHM, great! But don’t tell me that I should be as impressed, or celebrate what you’ve done, when virtually any woman can do it. And in fact, throughout history, most women have.

Well, I think you’ve got two points that you’re conflating, here. First of all: Raising a child is an accomplishment, regardless of how many women have done it. It is a time-consuming process needing a lot of resources and great commitment, and its effects are vast.

The second point is that you’re not impressed by said accomplishment. That’s fine. No one said you had to be. I am sure you are kind and respectful to the stay-at-home moms in your life, and I hope you aren’t pursuing policies that will make life more difficult for stay-at-home mothers. You are certainly free to value the raising of a child less than being a doctor or engineer.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

I think you need to read more about bad families.

Almost anybody can (biologically) become a mother or father, but keeping children alive is more involved than that, and being a decent parent is much, much more complicated.

If parenting is nothing, then on what grounds do we criticize bad or selfish parents?

Also, if parenting is a totally trivial activity, why does anybody choose not to have children? Why don’t they have a dozen? It’s no trouble at all–anybody can do it.

No project that takes 18+ years can be entirely trivial.

Again, I didn’t say it was trivial. And I don’t need to read about bad families, I’m well aware of what it’s like to have a homeless drunk of a father and a violent drunk of a stepfather. I also know what it’s like to have an incredible mom and older brother.

We criticize bad parents because when you have a child, you are responsible for them, you have to do your best for them, and it is just not about you anymore. Living this out as a man or woman, working or not, is the bare minimum. It doesn’t matter how old you are or what your education or career is. It is literally the least you can do. Chris Rock has a fairly off color joke about wanting credit for having never been to jail or for taking care of your kids. These are things you’re supposed to do!

Again, there’s no shame in being a SAHM. But staying home to care for kids while someone else goes out to earn a living that allows you to do it is your spouse’s accomplishment, not your’s.

It’s really astonishing to me that you don’t see it as a luxury that you are able to stay home, meticulously plan out every aspect of your child’s life, tailor your schedule, day, and routine to your own talents and skills, and not have to answer to anyone except the people who love you the most in the world. Of course it’s not easy, but it’s a definite luxury.

 

[pianistclare]

Wow. Something I never thought I’d see:
A “mean girls thread” on CAF.

Just when I thought people were supportive of one another.
This whole thread is so full of misconceptions, harsh judgments, and stereotypes, not to mention no affirmation for mothers. Of ANY sort, working in the workplace or working at home.
Our Lady must be weeping.

 

[jmjZelie]

Wow. Something I never thought I’d see:
A “mean girls thread” on CAF.

Just when I thought people were supportive of one another.
This whole thread is so full of misconceptions, harsh judgments, and stereotypes, not to mention no affirmation for mothers. Of ANY sort, working in the workplace or working at home.
Our Lady must be weeping.

Yes

 

[ThePCWife]

Again, I didn’t say it was trivial. And I don’t need to read about bad families, I’m well aware of what it’s like to have a homeless drunk of a father and a violent drunk of a stepfather. I also know what it’s like to have an incredible mom and older brother.

We criticize bad parents because when you have a child, you are responsible for them, you have to do your best for them, and it is just not about you anymore. Living this out as a man or woman, working or not, is the bare minimum. It doesn’t matter how old you are or what your education or career is. It is literally the least you can do. Chris Rock has a fairly off color joke about wanting credit for having never been to jail or for taking care of your kids. These are things you’re supposed to do!

Again, there’s no shame in being a SAHM. But staying home to care for kids while someone else goes out to earn a living that allows you to do it is your spouse’s accomplishment, not your’s.

It’s really astonishing to me that you don’t see it as a luxury that you are able to stay home, meticulously plan out every aspect of your child’s life, tailor your schedule, day, and routine to your own talents and skills, and not have to answer to anyone except the people who love you the most in the world. Of course it’s not easy, but it’s a definite luxury.

I SAHM and don’t get to do any of the stuff on your list except the staying at home bit, nor do the SAHMs I know IRL who have fewer resources at their disposal than I do. It’s a luxury to work an easy white collar job and believe that it’s an accomplishment.
/threadjack

Are there any other holidays for women that are celebrated internationally?

 

[BlueEyedLady]

I SAHM and don’t get to do any of the stuff on your list except the staying at home bit, nor do the SAHMs I know IRL who have fewer resources at their disposal than I do. It’s a luxury to work an easy white collar job and believe that it’s an accomplishment.
/threadjack

Are there any other holidays for women that are celebrated internationally?

You don’t get to do any of that stuff? You have a boss, external standards, and a schedule set by a third party? I doubt it.

It’s not about white collar or blue collar. Learning to install an HVAC system and make a living with that skill is an accomplishment. That’s learning to do something that not everyone can do and putting in an ongoing effort to stay current and maintain a high standard to keep or even move up at your job. Being a SAHM requires none of that. You have someone else taking on all of the pressure and stress to keep you afloat. People talk about how much easier it is to be your own boss. Being a SAHM is being your own boss x1000. It has no prereqs, no certifications, and no standards beyond not abusing your child. You set your own standards and adjust them based on your own circumstances.

IWD is about how far women have come. Why should we celebrate what we’ve always done and what virtually anyone can do? We already have Mother’s Day to honor those women.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

I guess I just don’t understand how it isn’t insulting to tell women that she can get an education, work hard, and do things in life that not everyone can do… or, she can do none of it and receive the same respect because of something that her body is capable of doing involuntarily. That minimizes women and tells them that no matter what they do, they will never be more than their biology.

Motherhood is comparable to fatherhood, not to a career. Motherhood is much more valuable and meaningful than a career (as is fatherhood). But a woman’s career is comparable to a man’s, not to a SAHM. A man’s career is comparable to a womans career, not to fatherhood.

We don’t rah rah over how accomplished and successful men are because they’re fathers. It’s patronizing to do it to women.

 

[Xantippe]

Again, I didn’t say it was trivial. And I don’t need to read about bad families, I’m well aware of what it’s like to have a homeless drunk of a father and a violent drunk of a stepfather. I also know what it’s like to have an incredible mom and older brother.

We criticize bad parents because when you have a child, you are responsible for them, you have to do your best for them, and it is just not about you anymore. Living this out as a man or woman, working or not, is the bare minimum. It doesn’t matter how old you are or what your education or career is. It is literally the least you can do. Chris Rock has a fairly off color joke about wanting credit for having never been to jail or for taking care of your kids. These are things you’re supposed to do!

Again, there’s no shame in being a SAHM. **But staying home to care for kids while someone else goes out to earn a living that allows you to do it is your spouse’s accomplishment, not your’s. **

It’s really astonishing to me that you don’t see it as a luxury that you are able to stay home, meticulously plan out every aspect of your child’s life, tailor your schedule, day, and routine to your own talents and skills, and not have to answer to anyone except the people who love you the most in the world. Of course it’s not easy, but it’s a definite luxury.

1. I believe hugely in the power of positive reinforcement (see literally dozens of posts from me on CAF on the subject), and I think your approach to motivation is less than ideal. As my gal Karen Pryor (the dolphin and dog trainer) argues, positive reinforcement is much more powerful and precise than negative reinforcement–you can’t teach people what to do by just punishing them when they do the wrong thing.

And unfortunately, one thing that’s often lacking in the lives of SAHMs is positive reinforcement and gratitude from the people they serve. As Rabbi Lapin points out, when you work a job, you get little green certificates of appreciation every month. It is a huge problem that SAHMs lack that kind of positive feedback.

When people (or kids, or even animals) are doing a hard job, they need to know what they’re doing it right or they’ll stop doing it. (I’ve seen this happen in my own extended family, in fact.)

1. I don’t think you understand how a middle class family with children works. It’s a very complicated mechanism, involving a lot of labor (both paid and unpaid) and a very high degree of cooperation. You’re right that if nobody is doing the paid labor, it’s not going to work. But on the other hand, if nobody is doing the unpaid labor, it’s also not going to work.
2. I am very fortunate in my husband (and I have praised him many times on CAF for being a good breadwinner and having a strong sense of vocation). We’re in the top 20% of households for income, we have two kids in private school, two days a week of preschool for our youngest, and we are able to outsource heavy cleaning and a lot of cooking (because we are able to eat dinners inexpensively in our college cafeterias). As housewifing goes, it’s a very good gig, and I understand that. But, a) we’ve been a lot poorer and I was still an SAHM (back in the day, after paying rent from my husband’s take home pay I had $800 a month to cover everything–groceries, clothes, baby stuff, medical copays, transportation, utilities, etc.) and b) you’ll notice that the average CAF SAHM also is not exactly rolling in it.

When you have non-disabled school age children, SAHMing does eventually turn into something like a white collar job (I was there briefly myself for the 2010-2011 school year), but early on, it’s a very dirty, physically intensive blue collar job. (My kids are late potty-trainers, so I’ve always found it particularly dirty.) Hence, you’re going to get a lot of “huh?” when you inform SAHMs how privileged they are to get to stay home and wipe bottoms.

1. As I already said upthread, one of the things that I do is to make what my husband does possible. He doesn’t have to think about a lot of things–buying himself clothes (I don’t think he’s bought himself pants or a shirt since the late 90s at least), his laundry, there being food at home, the kids getting to school, the kids being picked up, the kids’ grades, the lawn (I’ll call a guy), whether or not we’re on budget (we are), when the kids need to see the doctor or dentist, his own dental and medical appointments (I usually make those for him), going to evening school meetings, parent teacher conferences, family scheduling, etc. If he wants to/needs to, he can do evening work events, weekend work events, travel out of state, go to South America or Europe for a week–no biggie, I’ve got it covered.

 

[pianistclare]

1. I believe hugely in the power of positive reinforcement (see literally dozens of posts from me on CAF on the subject), and I think your approach to motivation is less than ideal. As my gal Karen Pryor (the dolphin and dog trainer) argues, positive reinforcement is much more powerful and precise than negative reinforcement–you can’t teach people what to do by just punishing them when they do the wrong thing.

And unfortunately, one thing that’s often lacking in the lives of SAHMs is positive reinforcement and gratitude from the people they serve. As Rabbi Lapin points out, when you work a job, you get little green certificates of appreciation every month. It is a huge problem that SAHMs lack that kind of positive feedback.

When people (or kids, or even animals) are doing a hard job, they need to know what they’re doing it right or they’ll stop doing it. (I’ve seen this happen in my own extended family, in fact.)

1. I don’t think you understand how a middle class family with children works. It’s a very complicated mechanism, involving a lot of labor (both paid and unpaid) and a very high degree of cooperation. You’re right that if nobody is doing the paid labor, it’s not going to work. But on the other hand, if nobody is doing the unpaid labor, it’s also not going to work.
2. I am very fortunate in my husband (and I have praised him many times on CAF for being a good breadwinner and having a strong sense of vocation). We’re in the top 20% of households for income, we have two kids in private school, two days a week of preschool for our youngest, and we are able to outsource heavy cleaning and a lot of cooking (because we are able to eat dinners inexpensively in our college cafeterias). As housewifing goes, it’s a very good gig, and I understand that. But, a) we’ve been a lot poorer and I was still an SAHM (back in the day, after paying rent from my husband’s take home pay I had $800 a month to cover everything–groceries, clothes, baby stuff, medical copays, transportation, utilities, etc.) and b) you’ll notice that the average CAF SAHM also is not exactly rolling in it.

When you have non-disabled school age children, SAHMing does eventually turn into something like a white collar job (I was there briefly myself for the 2010-2011 school year), but early on, it’s a very dirty, physically intensive blue collar job. (My kids are late potty-trainers, so I’ve always found it particularly dirty.) Hence, you’re going to get a lot of “huh?” when you inform SAHMs how privileged they are to get to stay home and wipe bottoms.

1. As I already said upthread, one of the things that I do is to make what my husband does possible. He doesn’t have to think about a lot of things–buying himself clothes (I don’t think he’s bought himself pants or a shirt since the late 90s at least), his laundry, there being food at home, the kids getting to school, the kids being picked up, the kids’ grades, the lawn (I’ll call a guy), whether or not we’re on budget (we are), when the kids need to see the doctor or dentist, his own dental and medical appointments (I usually make those for him), going to evening school meetings, parent teacher conferences, family scheduling, etc. If he wants to/needs to, he can do evening work events, weekend work events, travel out of state, go to South America or Europe for a week–no biggie, I’ve got it covered.

Right. And none of this “ability” came about simply because you could reproduce.

 

[Xantippe]

You don’t get to do any of that stuff? You have a boss, external standards, and a schedule set by a third party? I doubt it.

It’s not about white collar or blue collar. Learning to install an HVAC system and make a living with that skill is an accomplishment. That’s learning to do something that not everyone can do and putting in an ongoing effort to stay current and maintain a high standard to keep or even move up at your job. Being a SAHM requires none of that. You have someone else taking on all of the pressure and stress to keep you afloat. People talk about how much easier it is to be your own boss. Being a SAHM is being your own boss x1000. It has no prereqs, no certifications, and no standards beyond not abusing your child. You set your own standards and adjust them based on your own circumstances.

IWD is about how far women have come. Why should we celebrate what we’ve always done and what virtually anyone can do? We already have Mother’s Day to honor those women.

1. There is a lot of stress involved in being an SAHM–at least equal to that of women in other groups. Look at the stats here–50% of SAHMs report stress, versus 48% of employed mothers and 45% of childless employed women.

gallup.com/poll/154685/stay-home-moms-report-depression-sadness-anger.aspx

The stress numbers are not that different, but you’ll notice that SAHMs are more worried and angry, and much sadder and much more depressed.

Aside from kid stress, I personally find that there’s a lot of financial stress. I used to be really checked out about our finances, but for the last 8+ years, we’ve been doing Dave Ramsey. On the one hand, we’ve accomplished a lot (paid off all debt, bought a house and started to save for college), but on the other hand, even on a good income, as our kids get bigger, the household income pie needs to be cut up into more and more and thinner and thinner slices, and as time goes by, the need to prepare for the future becomes more and more pressing.

1. I think you’re mistaken about the awesomness and ease of being your own boss. I have a lot of entrepreneurs in my family, I listen to a lot of Dave Ramsey advising small business people, and I think very few people are cut out to be their own boss–hence the high failure rate of new businesses.

I’ll continue with some more thoughts about your previous post:

1. When you have a special needs child, there’s no “luxury” involved in staying home. If that’s what your child needs, you do it, even if that’s the last thing you want to do–and that need may extend well into the school years.

At the same time, what a special needs child needs most may be a really good school district with gold-plated special needs services. In that case, it may be necessary to work to afford that district or really good therapy and special summer camps, even if the mother wants desperately to stay home.

When you have a special needs child, you don’t get to pick what your child needs from you.

1. Lastly, I have to mention that I’ve personally gotten rather ambivalent about SAHMing. I’ve been an SAHM 13+ years (with some tutoring, nannying, and copyediting now and then) and while I’ve had a good run, for much of the last six months, I’ve been mentally counting down to the blessed day when Baby Girl goes to three day pre-K and I can start rediscovering the joys of spending my day with potty-trained people and enjoying a little disposable income.

But developmentally and economically, it’s a no-go–at the moment, what my family needs most from me is to take care of Baby Girl and keep the trains running on time.

 

[MomaMary8]

Again, there’s no shame in being a SAHM. But staying home to care for kids while someone else goes out to earn a living that allows you to do it is your spouse’s accomplishment, not your’s.

It’s really astonishing to me that you don’t see it as a luxury that you are able to stay home, meticulously plan out every aspect of your child’s life, tailor your schedule, day, and routine to your own talents and skills, and not have to answer to anyone except the people who love you the most in the world. Of course it’s not easy, but it’s a definite luxury.

Let me know when I can expect that luxury part.

Your post really exemplifies your ignorance re: SAHM’s. That’s all I can assume by saying their is no accomplishment in doing our job as a SAHM well. Being a parent who devotes their life to the care of their children is not a luxury. A blessing in many ways, but not luxury.

Would you mind reminding my 17 yo son that he loves me the most in the world…right now it he thinks it’s his lovely girl friend

Wow. Something I never thought I’d see:
A “mean girls thread” on CAF.

Just when I thought people were supportive of one another.
This whole thread is so full of misconceptions, harsh judgments, and stereotypes, not to mention no affirmation for mothers. Of ANY sort, working in the workplace or working at home.
Our Lady must be weeping.

But don’t you see, Feminism is based on Pride. It’s masked in “equality” but depends upon comparisons and one-up-menship. “Women are just as smart as men.” “Women are just as strong as men.” “Women can do the jobs that men do.” It’s never about raising a woman up for who they are, but always has an underlying message that tries to compare women to men. It’s about what ever a guy can do, I can do. Feminism, from its beginning, was about defining women based on a male standard. This lead to the denigration of men (who was the dope in every family show? Or commercial? The dad.) I now see this underlying model of comparison that drove the beginnings of feminism to now extend to all persons. Achievement can’t be recognized unless we can simultaneously degrade another. Pride.

 

[Xantippe]

Let me know when I can expect that luxury part.

[snip]

Would you mind reminding my 17 yo son that he loves me the most in the world…right now it he thinks it’s his lovely girl friend

Funny!

And yes, that second item is a problem. Plus, even in the early years, we’re not always going to be popular with our children. Having a late tween/early teen daughter can be the emotional equivalent of being staked to an anthill and getting tiny bites from the entire nest of fire ants. (As my mom may have said long ago, “I hope you have a daughter just like you.”)

And, to tell the truth, I suspect my older kids like daddy better than me. He’s way more fun than I am, rarely remembers to ask about homework, and he never notices that it’s bedtime. (But Baby Girl still likes me best.)

 

[MomaMary8]

You don’t get to do any of that stuff? You have a boss, external standards, and a schedule set by a third party? I doubt it.

It’s not about white collar or blue collar. Learning to install an HVAC system and make a living with that skill is an accomplishment. That’s learning to do something that not everyone can do and putting in an ongoing effort to stay current and maintain a high standard to keep or even move up at your job. Being a SAHM requires none of that. You have someone else taking on all of the pressure and stress to keep you afloat. People talk about how much easier it is to be your own boss. Being a SAHM is being your own boss x1000. It has no prereqs, no certifications, and no standards beyond not abusing your child. You set your own standards and adjust them based on your own circumstances.

IWD is about how far women have come. Why should we celebrate what we’ve always done and what virtually anyone can do? We already have Mother’s Day to honor those women.

You have a very big misunderstanding of the what it takes to be a parent. There are standards, there are workshops, there are manuals and studies galore. Standards? You’ve got to be joking. Your comments remind me of my arrogance before having kids and thinking I’d be bored staying home!! Haha!

I guess I just don’t understand how it isn’t insulting to tell women that she can** get an education, work hard, and **do things in life that not everyone can do… ****or, she can do none of it and receive the same respect because of something that her body is capable of doing involuntarily. That minimizes women and tells them that no matter what they do, they will never be more than their biology.

Motherhood is comparable to fatherhood, not to a career. Motherhood is much more valuable and meaningful than a career (as is fatherhood). But a woman’s career is comparable to a man’s, not to a SAHM. A man’s career is comparable to a womans career, not to fatherhood.

We don’t rah rah over how accomplished and successful men are because they’re fathers. It’s patronizing to do it to women.

Got the education (check)
Doing things in life not everyone can do (check) (Why else would people ask me “How do I do it?” I get that question all the time, it can’t be the biological question they are asking )
Burping is involuntary. Parenting is not.

Only in your eyes is motherhood not comparable to a meaningful career. I know what I can do and have devoted my talents to do this career VERY well.

Your examples of comparisons highlights the flaw of feminist thinking. We must compare to value, which is a false narrative.