Reformaton Christianity and the Catholic Church

[Usbek_de_Perse]

How has the Catholic Church been enriched by the Reformation?

 

[manualman]

OK, I’ll bite. The Church is infalliblly protected against teaching formal error. But at the same time, she is tragically prone to human failings in leadership and example. Sad, but true, outspoken critics are more effective in prompting reform than the individual conscience is. There WERE apalling abuses present in the 16th century church.

For all the apalling damage done to civilization by the protestant reformation, perhaps the silver lining is that it accelerated the pace of reform in the catholic church.

 

[Usbek_de_Perse]

I am one who sees, more clearly than ever, the enrichment that the various churches give each other. We Anglicans are heirs to both traditional liturgy and the Reformation emphasis on preaching and scripture. I think Protestants have been enriched by Post-Reformation Catholic music, architecture, and scholarship. Similarly I think the Catholic church has, when it was ready to receive it, benefited from the use of the vernacular language, the great Protestant tradition of hymnody (though as Fr. Neuhaus observed, Catholics can’t sing), and the Protestant emphasis on scripture.

I saw the service leaflet for the enthronement of the current Bishop of Oakland. They sang “O God our help in Ages Past”, that great Non-Conformist, anti-Royalist hymn of Isaas Watts. I thought: done. We are coming together. We will be one Church and it will happen in 100 years. It will be a rocky road. But somehow Christ is having his way, despite everything we have done to frustrate Him. Pretty amazing, really. His Father must be proud.

OK, I’ll bite. The Church is infalliblly protected against teaching formal error. But at the same time, she is tragically prone to human failings in leadership and example. Sad, but true, outspoken critics are more effective in prompting reform than the individual conscience is. There WERE apalling abuses present in the 16th century church.

For all the apalling damage done to civilization by the protestant reformation, perhaps the silver lining is that it accelerated the pace of reform in the catholic church.

 

[LDNCatholic]

We have the Jesuits now.

 

[TimothyH]

I am one who sees, more clearly than ever, the enrichment that the various churches give each other. We Anglicans are heirs to both traditional liturgy and the Reformation emphasis on preaching and scripture. I think Protestants have been enriched by Post-Reformation Catholic music, architecture, and scholarship. Similarly I think the Catholic church has, when it was ready to receive it, benefited from the use of the vernacular language, the great Protestant tradition of hymnody (though as Fr. Neuhaus observed, Catholics can’t sing), and the Protestant emphasis on scripture.

I saw the service leaflet for the enthronement of the current Bishop of Oakland. They sang “O God our help in Ages Past”, that great Non-Conformist, anti-Royalist hymn of Isaas Watts. I thought: done. We are coming together. We will be one Church and it will happen in 100 years. It will be a rocky road. But somehow Christ is having his way, despite everything we have done to frustrate Him. Pretty amazing, really. His Father must be proud.

If Cathoicism de-emphasized scripture, it was only in proportion to and driven by the gross over-emphasis given it by the Protestant reformers.

*So Simon Peter went over and dragged the net ashore full of one hundred fifty-three 5 large fish. Even though there were so many, the net was not torn. (John 21:11)*The greek word for “Tear” is “Scism”. We will be one Church at the end of time, that much is clear from scripture. There will be one net containing all fish, which will be dragged onto shore at the end of time and placed at Jesus feet. There will not be two nets or five nets but one net. One Church, without tear, without scism.

But understand from John 21 that this net - the Church - will be single handedly dragged onto shore and laid at Jesus’ feet by Peter the Pope. Please don’t think for a minute that a shared body of music is a replacement for unity of doctrine and acceptance of the legitimate authority of the Papacy as established by Christ himself. Please don’t assume that the Church will change its teaching on matters of faith and morals to accomodate the inclusion of Protestant denominations.

We will be one. That much is clear from scripture. Our Protestant brother’s and sisters will bring great gifts to the Church. Evangelicals will bring a great love of scripture. Baptists will bring ferocity and fervor. Even the Jehovah Witnesses will bring a great desire for evangelization. The Catholic Church will be enriched in wonderful ways when the Protestant denominations come into union with the Church. But that Church will be guided by the Holy Spirit to teach infalliby on matters of faith and morals. That Church will be united under the Pope. That church will have one body of doctrine handed down through twenty centuries from the Apostles themselves. That Church will contain seven sacraments. That Church has and always will possess the real presence of Christ and will be led by priests who will make Jesus Christ present in the Holy Eucharist. That Church will be Catholic.

Enriched? No doubt about it. Anything but Catholic? No way.

-Tim-

 

[Usbek_de_Perse]

I can state quite literally that some of my best friends are Jesuits.

We have the Jesuits now.

 

[Usbek_de_Perse]

That Church will be Catholic and catholic at the same time.

That Church will be Catholic.

-Tim-