Reformed Catholic Church?

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Esdra

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Hi folks,

I don’t know if you get to know that so much here in the US:

But in Austria at the moment a big “rebellion” is going on: Roamn Catholic Priests and Bishops in South and Southwest Germany and also Austria have asked the parishoners to “rebel against the pope” with them.
They want the RCC to be reformed (no celibacy, divorce allowed, Open-Communion, gays accepted, Gay marriages und vocations.)

Know, I’ve found a Church (which is still VERY small, only 150 parishoners throughout Austria) which is called “Katholisch-reformierte Kirche” (Catholic Reformed Church). (And there all those points and even more, listed above are already fulfilled.)

Now, 'though I don’t know if what I found on English websites is the same then this Austrian Church mentioned, but I’d like to know your comments/opinions on that Church:
**
The Reformed Catholic Church.**

I’ll make a start: Many points they describe what they believe, I am really happy about.
I’ve talked with the responisble Austrian Bishop (of the Austrian Church, see above), and many points are just great, nearly eucumenical:
Open-Communion; Grape Juice is used in the Eucharist (!)
Divorced and remarried people are allowed to go to the Eucharist.
They believe in the RP, but one doesn’t need to believe in it (if he/she believes the Lord’s Supper to be symbolic that’s no problem!)
Infant-Baptism is not a must, you can also get baptised as an adolscent i.e…
Just to name a few things, this Bishop has written me.
As I mentioned above, I am not sure if the Reformed Catholic Church (Link above) and the Austrian Catholic-reformed Church are the same…

Keep it charitable. Protestants as well as Catholics are encouraged to participate in this thread! 🙂

in Christ,
 
I’d run as far as I could from that church. Homosexual relations are a sin. I believe any form of bith control is displeasing to God. I could go on and on, but you get the idea.
 
BrushedByAngels said:
I’d run as far as I could from that church. Homosexual relations are a sin. I believe any form of bith control is displeasing to God. I could go on and on, but you get the idea.
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Yes, I’ve already thought so that most Catholics’d think like you! 😉

Hm, but apparently, quite a lot of people in Central Europe would like the RCC to become like that…
Actually, in some points, I can’t really imagine why…

Anyone, actually, heard of that Church before? I hadn’t, only found it by chance (the Austrian one) after reading a newspaper article that one of the priests of that Church, cocelebrated and celebrated masses in a small town in Austria in a Roman Catholic Church while the local pastor was in Madrid (World Youth Day 2011 with the Pope).
 
BrushedbyAngels is so correct…RUN!!!

This is a church that decided which of God’s laws they would believe and which to not. It is always dangerous when man tries to put his laws and doctrine over that of God. Guess who wins in the end?😉

Jesus never promised us it would be easy to follow Him, just that it would be worth it, and if following Him puts us on the outside of secular society then so be it. To follow Him means to do EVERYTHING He says (to the best of our abilities with God’s grace) and NOT pick and choose based upon OUR wants and what is politically in vogue at the time.
 
Another guy in that region tried a similar approach to reform about 500 years ago.

It didn’t work out so well. This won’t do any better. You aren’t going to get closer to Christ by severing your ties with the apostles.
 
Wow,

I see that this particular Reformed Catholic Church has been at it for 11 whole years. Well how about that? I guess they know better than the original - NOT!
 
There are actually quite a few of these “independent Catholic churches” out there. The ones I’ve encountered tend to be very small, often no more than two or three congregations. They usually state that they allow divorce and remarriage, recognize homosexual unions, ordain women, etc. In other words, a group of people become dissatisfied with the Church and decide to do their own thing.

This group gives the appearance of being somewhat larger than a few congregations, though I’d be surprised if more than a few hundred people attend their services each week. These groups tend to be very small and exert virtually no influence. I think this is because these groups are started by no more than a handful. It is even possible that their holy orders lack validity

My concern with the Austria situation is that a group leaving with dozens or hundreds of priests will be in a position to lead many astray. The group you linked to isn’t.
 
ChristIsTheWay said:
There are actually quite a few of these “independent Catholic churches” out there. The ones I’ve encountered tend to be very small, often no more than two or three congregations. They usually state that they allow divorce and remarriage, recognize homosexual unions, ordain women, etc. In other words, a group of people become dissatisfied with the Church and decide to do their own thing.

This group gives the appearance of being somewhat larger than a few congregations, though I’d be surprised if more than a few hundred people attend their services each week. These groups tend to be very small and exert virtually no influence. I think this is because these groups are started by no more than a handful. It is even possible that their holy orders lack validity

My concern with the Austria situation is that a group leaving with dozens or hundreds of priests will be in a position to lead many astray. The group you linked to isn’t.
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Oh, you know about the situation in Austria? 🙂
Cool.

Yes, if these “not faithful priests or (even) bishops” really start splitting with the RCC, then it will become interesting, indeed.
I really wonder what’d happen, if, let’s say parish A is “reformed” and parish B “Roman Catholic”.
Or if 40% of a whole diocese were reformed. Would there become two dioceses then? One for the Reformed Catholics and the other for the Roman Catholics?
 
So it’s basically a Reformed Catholic Church, just minus the Catholic part? Communion, Divorce, and Homosexuality are three things the Catholic Church has tried very hard to stand for over time. It is a shame that this church even claims to be “catholic”.
 
Esdra said:
Oh, you know about the situation in Austria? 🙂
Cool.

Yes, if these “not faithful priests or (even) bishops” really start splitting with the RCC, then it will become interesting, indeed.
I really wonder what’d happen, if, let’s say parish A is “reformed” and parish B “Roman Catholic”.
Or if 40% of a whole diocese were reformed. Would there become two dioceses then? One for the Reformed Catholics and the other for the Roman Catholics?
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They would cease to be part of the Catholic Church under the care of the Pope, the successor of Peter.

Though they would carry the name “catholic,” they would not be real catholics and would either be in schism or totally separate. The priest or bishops who go with them would entail automatic excommunication.
 
kesto4 said:
So it’s basically a Reformed Catholic Church, just minus the Catholic part? Communion, Divorce, and Homosexuality are three things the Catholic Church has tried very hard to stand for over time. It is a shame that this church even claims to be “catholic”.
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If they would say they are catholic written with a small c to say they are universal (this is what the greek word originally meant.), then they’d be quite all right.
However, I don’t know, if they do so…

I think they are far more Episcopolean than Catholic…
 
pablope said:
They would cease to be part of the Catholic Church under the care of the Pope, the successor of Peter.

Though they would carry the name “catholic,” they would not be real catholics and would either be in schism or totally separate. The priest or bishops who go with them would entail automatic excommunication.
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Well, it’s clear that they’d be excommunicated. 😉

I mean, I think it is hard to imagine for me, as here in Austria usually one diocese is one (out of the 9) counties (or states) of Austria.
In the US I think it’s easier for you to imagine that… I mean, I am sure that there are several dioceses in one county (i.e. Episcopolean, Lutheran, Catholic, Orthodox etc…)

Mhm, if they would really seperate from Rome (and becoming a “Liberal or Reformed” Catholic Church), I think they’d rather be a denomination than a Church in Schism, don’t you think?
Or is for you the Episcopolean Church or, maybe a better example, the Old Catholic Church in Communion with Utrecht, in Schism?
 
Sounds like just another protestant church to me. Why not name that church the “Anything Goes” church? I’m not knocking any particular protestant church here, but how is this one “Catholic?” Since the Catholic Church teaches Jesus’ teachings, how can this particular church say that it has reformed those teachings? Who can face Christ on judgment day and say that he reformed His teachings? Not me.
 
Waiting said:
Sounds like just another protestant church to me. Why not name that church the “Anything Goes” church? I’m not knocking any particular protestant church here, but how is this one “Catholic?” Since the Catholic Church teaches Jesus’ teachings, how can this particular church say that it has reformed those teachings? Who can face Christ on judgment day and say that he reformed His teachings? Not me.
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Oh, how creepy, this is your 666st post! 😉 😃
 
Waiting said:
Sounds like just another protestant church to me. Why not name that church the “Anything Goes” church? I’m not knocking any particular protestant church here, but how is this one “Catholic?” Since the Catholic Church teaches Jesus’ teachings, how can this particular church say that it has reformed those teachings? Who can face Christ on judgment day and say that he reformed His teachings? Not me.
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Well, I don’t really now, how they can claim to be Catholic…
I can, as mentioned above, understand, however, if they say they are catholic (in the sense of universal).

Hm, but actually, the same goes for all Catholic Churches which have seperated themselves from Rome, right? (i.e. Old Catholic Church/Utrecht, PNCC etc…)
 
Esdra said:
Oh, how creepy, this is your 666st post! 😉 😃
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I thought about that and laughed. Did have a bit of bad luck this afternoon, but surely there’s no connection, is there? Anyway, this is 667, so the spell is broken.
 
Waiting said:
I thought about that and laughed. Did have a bit of bad luck this afternoon, but surely there’s no connection, is there? Anyway, this is 667, so the spell is broken.
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In some manuscripts the “number” is 661…so you’re safe none the less.🙂
 
I agree with jsaldar. Only the borrowed name is similar. What is the difference between a tiger and a tiger lilly? Without adherence to dogma and doctrine, there is no connection between the Catholic church and this group of Episcopalians-by-another-name.
 
westerly said:
I agree with jsaldar. Only the borrowed name is similar. What is the difference between a tiger and a tiger lilly? Without adherence to dogma and doctrine, there is no connection between the Catholic church and this group of Episcopalians-by-another-name.
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You’ve put that really nicely! 😃
They are Episcopolians by another name! 😉

When I first read on their homepage what they believe, my first thought also was, they are more or less like Anglicans or Episcopoleans.
 
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