Refusal to attend Confession, yet still receiving Eucharist?

[Faithdancer]

I see this as yet another of the unintended consequences of the abuse of Vatican II. The concept of what constitutes a mortal sin has become so vague in the teachings of the liberal/modernists in the Church as to become almost meaningless. As a result of the poor, “new age” and Protestant-y religious education materials and practices in the last 40 years, there seem to be many Catholics who convince themselves that they never commit mortal sin, and that only rape and pillage and murder qualify as mortal sins, so to speak.

As an exemplar, however, we have Blessed John Paul II who, while as pope, reputedly attended Reconcilation weekly or even daily, depending on the source. He did not want even the slightest venial sin to come between him and God. And as other posters here have observed, if one is uncertain whether a sin is mortal or venial, it does one no harm to confess it.

 

[Faithdancer]

Francis Cardinal Arinze on the subject of frequency of confession: youtube.com/watch?v=1XBBWALh6XM

 

[bmaj]

Thank you, and my prayers will include you as well! I try so hard not to fixate on my husband’s soul’s condition. Of course it is difficult, as he is one of the 3 people I love the most in this world, and I want him to go to Heaven! In fact, I have taken to offering up whatever personal suffering I experience as a prayer for his return to faith in God. I am not good at suffering, I complain altogether too much about discomfort or inconvenience, but as I remember to do this, it makes the pain or whatever a little bit more bearable. I know a lot of Catholics who do this as a matter of course, but I was fallen away for over 20 years and only had 10 years as a Catholic before that. Thank God for my devout convert mother! May she rest in the arms of Jesus and may I see her again one happy day!

:hug3:

It’s so beautiful, TRJ, to remember who we can thank for helping pass down our amazing Faith to us! May your dear Mother rest in God’s love and peace for all she’s done!

 

[bmaj]

I can’t say this for sure about your husband, but I’ve experienced it with my own relatives. I believe that lack of use of the sacrament of confession is a symptom of a much bigger problem, which is a lack of faith altogether.

I have had discussions with a few different Catholic relatives about these types of things. They go in two ways. One way it goes is that I cite my sources really well, and I make a great case. But the person I’m speaking with doesn’t accept my sources. Who says the catechism must be believed? Who says the bible means what you think it means? Who says the Bible must be followed to a tee. I can give answer after answer, slowly moving back through the line of authority, until we get to the issue of whether or not there is such a thing as absolute truth, whether or not the statement “God is real” is absolutely true. It comes down to the fact that the person I’m arguing with admits (without being willing to use the term) to being agnostic. If you don’t believe in God, what good will arguing about the Cactechism do? That person is missing the foundation, which must be built before worrying about the roof.

The other way it goes is I make a good argument, but the person I am arguing with shuts down the conversation very quickly. This is a person who hasn’t thought as deeply about the issues and doesn’t have the ability to debate this topic. They are sure that they don’t want you to change your mind though, so they stop talking. This may be a result of agnosticism, or it may be that the person is choosing selfishness over figuring out right from wrong. That person, rather than hearing arguments, needs to have their heart touched, so that they CARE about the arguments.

Ultimately, when faith is lacking, you can be prepared to answer questions when they arise. But often it is a matter of the heart, or a matter of receiving faith as a gift from God, or having the grace to hear what they otherwise wouldn’t. Best thing to do is to live the best you can, to show love, the best you can, and to pray.

Thanks for that excellent advice, TKC. I see your points about the various ways the discussions can go and have seen similar in talks with my husband. I think he cares a little, but I also think he may be too stubborn and/or “afraid” to go to confession after all these years. God will work in His time frame, not mine, I guess, but I’ll keep praying and doing what I can.

God bless you for taking the time to assist!

 

[bmaj]

I see this as yet another of the unintended consequences of the abuse of Vatican II. The concept of what constitutes a mortal sin has become so vague in the teachings of the liberal/modernists in the Church as to become almost meaningless. As a result of the poor, “new age” and Protestant-y religious education materials and practices in the last 40 years, there seem to be many Catholics who convince themselves that they never commit mortal sin, and that only rape and pillage and murder qualify as mortal sins, so to speak.

As an exemplar, however, we have Blessed John Paul II who, while as pope, reputedly attended Reconcilation weekly or even daily, depending on the source. He did not want even the slightest venial sin to come between him and God. And as other posters here have observed, if one is uncertain whether a sin is mortal or venial, it does one no harm to confess it.

Good points, Faithdancer. Sad that it’s come to this for some Catholics. I can’t help but believe that deep down in their conscience those who choose to ignore Confession or the aspects of the Church that they disagree with truly do feel guilt and pain. I pray the Holy Spirit guides them back to what they likely know, deep inside, to be true.
God bless.

 

[bmaj]

Just want to thank everyone for their (name removed by moderator)ut and advice on this - I truly appreciate it. May God bless all of you for taking the time to help.

 

[Marilyn_H]

I sincerely wish I had the time, I don’t even have the opportunity to read the answers to all the present questions. Thank you for asking.

 

[Deacon_Toby]

Someone can definitely give you specific documents but it does not sound like your husband is interested. At this point I think all you can do is pray for him and do your best to live a good life. We are required to do our best to get our spouse into heaven and it sounds like you are trying. I don’t remember where I read it but the good deeds of a spouse can help in the salvation of one who does not believe.

Blessings! Try the 15 prayers of St Bridget or a
Similar novena for a change of heart! Deacon Toby

 

[Blue_Horizon]

What you have posted is true, but somewhat misleading. Every catholic is obligated (under the pain of mortal sin) to receive the sacrament of reconciliation at the very least once a year. This is part of the so called Seven Precepts of the Church. You can find this in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Also, see here: ewtn.com/vexperts/showmessage.asp?number=519874&Pg=&Pgnu=&recnu=
Or just google “seven precepts of the church”.

BStorm I see no mention of “under the pain of mortal sin” wrt to Precepts (which vary in number) in the CCC you link. Can you source your information?

Personally it seems strange to me that a person who is not conscious of having committed a mortal sin and who attends the Eucharist at least once a year (thereby keeping the spirit of the precepts) commits a mortal sin by not going to a confession that, strictly speaking, is not necessary for receiving communion.

 

[bmaj]

Blessings! Try the 15 prayers of St Bridget or a
Similar novena for a change of heart! Deacon Toby

Thanks very much, Deacon Toby, for that suggestion. I hadn’t been aware of those St. Bridget prayers. God’s blessings to you also!!!

 

[Deacon_Toby]

BStorm I see no mention of “under the pain of mortal sin” wrt to Precepts (which vary in number) in the CCC you link. Can you source your information?

Personally it seems strange to me that a person who is not conscious of having committed a mortal sin and who attends the Eucharist at least once a year (thereby keeping the spirit of the precepts) commits a mortal sin by not going to a confession that, strictly speaking, is not necessary for receiving communion.

Let’s not get confused here willfully missing mass on Sunday
Puts one in a mortally critical state confession therefore
Is necessary to remove that stain of sin. In my world if one
Knows the once a year attendance regs they are aware of the
Rest of the story. Also my experience when the situation gets
experience people usually come around. There is a definite “in case
I’m wrong” grace that seems to abound when trouble is dire.
DT

 

[Deacon_Toby]

Blessings part of my message didn’t connect
When the situation gets critical such as terminal
Illness, personal tragedy, or other deep personal
challenge “the in case I’m wrong” grace usually
Leads that person back to the reception of Gods
goodness, the sacraments. DT

 

[englishredrose]

sorry if this has been said already,
but I think the main thing you can do for your husband as well as pray for him is let him see how much more at peace you are for doing confession along with Mass. He will see the difference in you and that idea will grow on him more than any words will. The harder you try to make him the more stubborn he will be. Let him see instead your peace with God and with each other and in time he will see. Although please be aware that you may well never know if he goes to confession or not. Simply let the matter as a discussion drop and let your actions be your message. If he raises it just be simplistic in what you say. You don’t need clever words or passages. Just simply say why you do so and calmly and gently say it every time he raises it. If he don’t raise it, you say nothing. No more, no less. He will soon see how you are contentedely happy and that is the message he needs to see the most. And if he don’t then you are doing your bit by praying for him and making sure he sees that you are content with what you practice. But like I say, you may never find out if he goes to a confession because he may choose to go elsewhere and he can do. Just let it rest with God
peace
xxx

 

[bmaj]

Blessings part of my message didn’t connect
When the situation gets critical such as terminal
Illness, personal tragedy, or other deep personal
challenge “the in case I’m wrong” grace usually
Leads that person back to the reception of Gods
goodness, the sacraments. DT

Thanks for that insight, Deacon Toby. I pray that if all else fails with my husband and he doesn’t return to the sacrament of reconciliation, at least some day one of the above criteria might hopefully lead him to it. It’s very sad that it takes something like that for some people, though, but God’s plans and time frames can be so different than ours.

 

[bmaj]

sorry if this has been said already,
but I think the main thing you can do for your husband as well as pray for him is let him see how much more at peace you are for doing confession along with Mass. He will see the difference in you and that idea will grow on him more than any words will. The harder you try to make him the more stubborn he will be. Let him see instead your peace with God and with each other and in time he will see. Although please be aware that you may well never know if he goes to confession or not. Simply let the matter as a discussion drop and let your actions be your message. If he raises it just be simplistic in what you say. You don’t need clever words or passages. Just simply say why you do so and calmly and gently say it every time he raises it. If he don’t raise it, you say nothing. No more, no less. He will soon see how you are contentedely happy and that is the message he needs to see the most. And if he don’t then you are doing your bit by praying for him and making sure he sees that you are content with what you practice. But like I say, you may never find out if he goes to a confession because he may choose to go elsewhere and he can do. Just let it rest with God
peace
xxx

Good advice,Englishredrose. You’re right - continual actions along the Lord’s path can definitely speak louder than words! Thanks for sharing, and God bless.

 

[Mickey]

**Didache 4:14; 14:1
**As early as 70 AD

Confess your sins in church, and do not go up to your prayer with an evil conscience. This is the way of life…. On the Lord’s Day gather together, break bread, and give thanks, after confessing your transgressions so that your sacrifice may be pure.

**St. Cyprian of Carthage
**250 AD
The Lapsed 15:1-3; 28

The Apostle likewise bears witness and says: ….”Whoever eats the bread and drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord” [1 Cor 11:27]. But [the impenitent] spurn and despise all these warnings; before their sins are expiated, before they have made a confession of their crime, before their conscience has been purged in the ceremony and at the hand of the priest…they do violence to his body and blood, and with their hands and mouth they sin against the Lord more than when they denied him.

**St. Athanasius of Alexandria
**295 – 373 AD
On the Gospel of Luke 19

Just as a man is enlightened by the Holy Spirit when he is baptized by a priest, so he who confesses his sins with a repentant heart obtains their remission from the priest.

**St. Basil the Great
**330 – 379 AD
Rules Briefly Treated 288

It is necessary to confess our sins to those to whom the dispensation of God’s mysteries * is entrusted . Those doing penance of old are found to have done it before the saints. It is written in the Gospel that they confessed their sins to John the Baptist [Matt 3:6]; but in Acts they confessed to the Apostles, by whom also all were baptized [Acts 19:18].*

**St. Ambrose
**c. 333 – 397 AD
Penance 2:2:12

But what was impossible was made possible by God, who gave us so great a grace. It seemed likewise impossible for sins to be forgiven through penance; yet Christ granted even this to His Apostles, and by His Apostles it has been transmitted to the offices of priest.

 

[Blue_Horizon]

Let’s not get confused here willfully missing mass on Sunday
Puts one in a mortally critical state confession therefore
Is necessary to remove that stain of sin. In my world if one
Knows the once a year attendance regs they are aware of the
Rest of the story. Also my experience when the situation gets
experience people usually come around. There is a definite “in case
I’m wrong” grace that seems to abound when trouble is dire.
DT

Thanks DT, my example may not have been the clearest.

However I believe the poster who states “Every catholic is obligated (under the pain of mortal sin) to receive the sacrament of reconciliation at the very least once a year” may be mistaken in holding that willing/knowing failure wrt the precepts is mortally sinful.

To put it another way, the Precepts seem to be more about educating the sincerely ignorant (presumed to be in a state of grace) who hardly need to be threatened re mortal sin. Those already knowingly/willfully ignoring the precepts are likely in a state of mortal sin already (for other reasons) and so pointing out that ignoring the Precepts is mortally sinful probably has a pastoral effectiveness rating of zero. Bit of a tautology for them.

We may also need to be careful at too easily identifying the precepts with too tightly specified behaviour. For centuries revered desert monks willfully spent months on end in deserted places thus keeping the sabbath holy only through prayer rather than Eucharist.
Maybe the precepts didn’t exist then? Even if they did I don’t have a problem with their way of life - I am not sure the authorities would really either.

 

[bmaj]

**Didache 4:14; 14:1
**As early as 70 AD

Confess your sins in church, and do not go up to your prayer with an evil conscience. This is the way of life…. On the Lord’s Day gather together, break bread, and give thanks, after confessing your transgressions so that your sacrifice may be pure.

**St. Cyprian of Carthage
**250 AD
The Lapsed 15:1-3; 28

The Apostle likewise bears witness and says: ….”Whoever eats the bread and drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord” [1 Cor 11:27]. But [the impenitent] spurn and despise all these warnings; before their sins are expiated, before they have made a confession of their crime, before their conscience has been purged in the ceremony and at the hand of the priest…they do violence to his body and blood, and with their hands and mouth they sin against the Lord more than when they denied him.

**St. Athanasius of Alexandria
**295 – 373 AD
On the Gospel of Luke 19

Just as a man is enlightened by the Holy Spirit when he is baptized by a priest, so he who confesses his sins with a repentant heart obtains their remission from the priest.

**St. Basil the Great
**330 – 379 AD
Rules Briefly Treated 288

It is necessary to confess our sins to those to whom the dispensation of God’s mysteries * is entrusted . Those doing penance of old are found to have done it before the saints. It is written in the Gospel that they confessed their sins to John the Baptist [Matt 3:6]; but in Acts they confessed to the Apostles, by whom also all were baptized [Acts 19:18].*

**St. Ambrose
**c. 333 – 397 AD
Penance 2:2:12

But what was impossible was made possible by God, who gave us so great a grace. It seemed likewise impossible for sins to be forgiven through penance; yet Christ granted even this to His Apostles, and by His Apostles it has been transmitted to the offices of priest.

Thanks very much, Mickey, for all of that info. Much appreciated. God bless.

 

[Mickey]

Thanks very much, Mickey, for all of that info. Much appreciated. God bless.

You are very welcome bmaj. Sometimes it helps for people to see the words of the holy Church Fathers and saints. When a person has not been to confession for a very long time (or never since their first confession)…or infrequently…it can be very frightening and/or intimidating. Of course this is only the ego speaking…because humility is a key part of the sacrament. It can be even more difficult for those in the Eastern Catholic or Orthodox Church because confession is always face-to-face. Also, it is a process. Those who are re-familiarizing themselves with the sacrament must know that it will take many (and regular) confessions to clean all of the filth from the old wounds.

But it is life changing! I know from experiencing. Coming back to confession on a regular basis about 15 years ago…saved my life!

 

[bmaj]

You are very welcome bmaj. Sometimes it helps for people to see the words of the holy Church Fathers and saints. When a person has not been to confession for a very long time (or never since their first confession)…or infrequently…it can be very frightening and/or intimidating. Of course this is only the ego speaking…because humility is a key part of the sacrament. It can be even more difficult for those in the Eastern Catholic or Orthodox Church because confession is always face-to-face. Also, it is a process. Those who are re-familiarizing themselves with the sacrament must know that it will take many (and regular) confessions to clean all of the filth from the old wounds.

But it is life changing! I know from experiencing. Coming back to confession on a regular basis about 15 years ago…saved my life!

Amen on the humility, Mickey! That is so true, and satan just loves the ego and intimidating feelings which can keep people away from magnificent Sacraments for far too long. I also didn’t realize the process in the Eastern Catholic or Orthodox Church was a bit different with Confession. So beautiful that returning to Confession saved your life!!! Love to hear that. There’s hope all around. Keep up the great work!