Refused to sing "a mighty fortress is our God"

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I recognize that the history of “A Mighty Fortress is our God” is different than some other Protestant hymns, due to its ties to Luther and the 30 years war, etc. But we use plenty of other hymns written by Protestants. Isaac Watts was Protestant, for example. Should we not then use “Joy to the World” at Christmastime? Or “When I Survey the Wondrous Cross,” or “I Sing the Mighty Power of God”? He wrote all of those, and I don’t think any of them are problematic theologically.

If we exclude all English-language hymns written by Protestants, the majority of English-language hymns remaining will be the more modern ones written in the 60s onward. (There are some exceptions – e.g. Faith of our Fathers is one traditional example definitely written by a Catholic – but I think we’d exclude the majority of traditional English-language hymnody.)
 
The general state of liturgical music isn’t very good, imo. Too much fluff. I’d rather sing a good hymn written by a protestant AS LONG AS it didn’t contain any untruths rather than a poor hymn written by a Catholic. To be honest, I’ve come to think of music at church as something to be endured rather than enjoyed.

Lots of stuff going on out there… not a hill worth dying upon.
 
exnihilo said:
The congregation could be actively involved even if not singing. Prayer is active. I don’t know if you are saying otherwise but I think it important to point this out.
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Yeah, but Luther’s point was that frequently the medieval form of the mass excluded even that type of participation, and that even the prayers were usually said in Latin, thereby losing the catechetical value for those who didn’t understand Latin. This is one of the reasons why Luther included an explanation of the Lord’s Prayer in the Small Catechism.

Luther’s concern with the music sung in the divine service had much less to do with trying to make a popular form of worship than it was a pastoral concern. He was really trying to proclaim the gospel in ways that the masses could understand so that they could obtain the benefit of hearing it, and to also teach basic Christian doctrine to the masses through the hymnody. I think this is what makes so many of the hymns of the reformation so enduring, because they were declaring the gospel rather than focusing on entertainment.
 
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Shasta-Rose said:
So many of the Catholic songs are not very inspiring and don’t have a good tune, either. Now and then we get to sing a song that swings along, and then a few people sing, and we don’t sound too bad!
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At my last parish, they tended to focus on hymns that would sound reasonably good to a modern audience, and the “Glory to God” and “Alleluia” were also done to some pretty good tunes. It wasn’t like a concert, but there was a sense of joy that the songs convey.

My current parish, though, tends to stick with rather boring songs. They even turned the “Glory to God” into the singing equivalent of reading a license agreement, and it’s just so oddly dissonant with the joyous lyrics. Like I’ve said other times when bringing this up, it won’t cause me to leave, but it does make me want to scream, “Please stop sounding like your mom dragged you in here against your will!”
 
I wish I could could remember the name of the Latin hymn we sung at the third (low) Mass yesterday afternoon. Which was packed, by the way. And packed with familes and kids.
 
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OraLabora said:
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exnihilo:
Hymns are Protestant.
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However the Mass is not a stand-alone liturgy, it is the summit of the liturgy which is a day-long act of prayer and worship, and the whole thing begins at Matins… with a hymn, and has so since St Benedict’s time.
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Doesn’t it begin with Vespers? Or is that just Sundays and feast days in the Latin Rite?
 
I do not hold your optimism. I think it would narrow the discussion, but not limit the amount or the emotion in discussion music. People invest a lot in their own opinions. But I am glad there is no universal list. The principle of subsidiarity works better in music than in almost any other way. Some of the songs panned here are some of the most enthusiastically sung in my parish.
 
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Hodos said:
Yeah, but Luther’s point was that frequently the medieval form of the mass excluded even that type of participation, and that even the prayers were usually said in Latin, thereby losing the catechetical value for those who didn’t understand Latin. This is one of the reasons why Luther included an explanation of the Lord’s Prayer in the Small Catechism.

Luther’s concern with the music sung in the divine service had much less to do with trying to make a popular form of worship than it was a pastoral concern. He was really trying to proclaim the gospel in ways that the masses could understand so that they could obtain the benefit of hearing it, and to also teach basic Christian doctrine to the masses through the hymnody. I think this is what makes so many of the hymns of the reformation so enduring, because they were declaring the gospel rather than focusing on entertainment.
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Luther did have some pretty good points. Took it way too far in making his own church, but he had some good points.
 
Can’t remember the last time I heard those sung in an OF only parish in our area. Probably never.
 
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When it comes to Catholic Churches, the hymns and music can vastly differ. I go to one Catholic Church for confession, because their schedule works with mine, but the music and the choir at the church I belong too is much more vivacious, and yet still very Catholic.

I have never even heard of the OP’s song.
 
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DarkLight said:
Luther did have some pretty good points. Took it way too far in making his own church, but he had some good points.
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We would disagree on whether Luther took things too far, or whether he even “made his own church,” and by whose initiative the schism of the Church resulted. If you read the Augsburg Confession which provides the confession of faith professed by the Lutheran Churches, I think you would find an apostolic profession of faith. It was this apostolic profession of faith that they were being told to abandon at the point of a sword in 1529.
 
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exnihilo said:
But if you aren’t going to sing the harmonies, and in my experience Catholics don’t even bother printing the harmonies let alone try to sing them, then what is the point?
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Why does the choir get to have all the fun (sing the harmonies)? 🙂
 
pnewton said:
I do not hold your optimism. I think it would narrow the discussion, but not limit the amount or the emotion in discussion music. People invest a lot in their own opinions. But I am glad there is no universal list. The principle of subsidiarity works better in music than in almost any other way. Some of the songs panned here are some of the most enthusiastically sung in my parish.
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But what is the “opportunity cost” of missing out on the good catechesis of quality hymns / the Mass Propers themselves? They (hymns discussed here) may be enthusiastically sung in some parishes, but Mass is not really meant to be a sing-a-long, although that is enjoyable. The most enthusiastically sung music in my parish is when we chant the Snow version of the “Our Father”, or when the priest chants his part, and the congregation chants back.
 
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Maybe you could say Luther “Sang a New Church” into being…🤣
 
Loud-living-dogma said:
Maybe you could say Luther “Sang a New Church” into being
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LOL, while I reject the notion that Luther created a new church, there is a lot of truth in this statement as to the impact of Lutheran hymnody. I read somewhere that at one point the Catholic Church was quite threatened by the Reformation hymns because the laity who loved the Lutheran hymns were singing themselves into Lutheran doctrine. When you look at the rich doctrinal heritage these hymns contain, I consider that a blessing and a compliment.
 
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