Refusing vaccinations that come from aborted fetal tissue

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Personally speaking, I believe vaccinations for all known childhood diseases should be compulsory. Again in my view, parents who do not allow their children to be vaccinated are deliberately risking their lives.
As for you comment that those vaccinated have suffered more I absolutely do not believe that at all.
Benefits of vaccination far outweigh the risks.
You don’t have to believe me; I’m some random poster on the internet. Every student affected by the mumps outbreak at Fordham had been vaccinated. I have family members with no vaccines, tested for immunity (because they do that when you get pregnant) who show up with full immunity for everything, because they have real immunity. Then there is me, who keeps getting pushed to get boosters. Fake immunity is fake.
 
You don’t have to believe me; I’m some random poster on the internet. Every student affected by the mumps outbreak at Fordham had been vaccinated. I have family members with no vaccines, tested for immunity (because they do that when you get pregnant) who show up with full immunity for everything, because they have real immunity. Then there is me, who keeps getting pushed to get boosters. Fake immunity is fake.
Parents who do not get their children vaccinated are recklessly endangering the lives of their children.
 
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Parents who do not get their children vaccinated are recklessly endangering the lives of their children.
I respectfully disagree. I think we probably have fundamentally differing views on the function of the immune system. In any event, as NFP or leaving children up to God is an act of trust, nurturing the immune system as he created it is something on which I have a firm conviction.
 
Duplicate post… That is what I get for responding on my phone :eek:
 
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I respectfully disagree. I think we probably have fundamentally differing views on the function of the immune system. In any event, as NFP or leaving children up to God is an act of trust, nurturing the immune system as he created it is something on which I have a firm conviction.
If you are not a doctor or medical scientist then I will ignore your opinion (to which you are of course entitled).
I have not seen any credible research that concludes not being vaccinated is better than being vaccinated. I will go with the medical science views.
As for your little twist bringing trusting in God with regard to the children as an excuse not to vaccinate well there is a difference between trusting in God and challenging him. He gave us the doctors and medical scientists to look after the children.
 
People complain about vaccines today because vaccination programs have reduced the diseases so much few know deceased or maimed family members from diseases that killed only a few generations ago. People complain because they have been so blessed by these programs they don’t even realize it fully.
Ask your grandmother about polio, chances are she will tell you about parents fearing warm weather each year and not letting children swim in public pools to avoid exposure during that time of year. She may tell you about a friend that was put in an iron lung or lost the use of a leg. Pediatricians no longer have to give parents the horrible news that their child will be forever disabled by polio because children are vaccinated against it.

Always remember, you are one plane flight from ALL of these diseases and in some places these diseases are still highly common. It takes one international traveller coming around a few unvaccinated people in a public place to see a resurgence in these diseases. We saw this at a church in Texas and we are seeing it in the UK as more people oppose vaccines.
 
If you are not a doctor or medical scientist then I will ignore your opinion (to which you are of course entitled).
I have not seen any credible research that concludes not being vaccinated is better than being vaccinated. I will go with the medical science views.
As for your little twist bringing trusting in God with regard to the children as an excuse not to vaccinate well there is a difference between trusting in God and challenging him. He gave us the doctors and medical scientists to look after the children.
Actually, I genuinely believe that the immune system God created is far superior than the toxic/poison fueled medical industry. There are many scientific view and many are black listed by the medical industry with the help of the government. Humans, historically speaking, have issues with hubris and greed when in positions of power.

My original point, which you are free to disagree with, is that it is ludicrous for someone to compel you to vaccinate your child if you are opposed. Ethically and morally ludicrous.
 
My original point, which you are free to disagree with, is that it is ludicrous for someone to compel you to vaccinate your child if you are opposed. Ethically and morally ludicrous.
Can the government bar you from putting a loaded firearm in the hands of a five year-old? Yes, why? Because there’s a fair chance they’ll harm someone else with it, possibly killing them. Should the government force you to vaccinate your children? Probably, why? Because there’s a fair chance not having your child vaccinated will, through exposure, get someone else’s infant, who doesn’t have the immune system of your child, the disease before the infant is old enough to be able to get vaccinated themselves and at an age where they are at high risk of fatality.

The government of course has good reasons to force vaccinations; one of its major responsibilities is public safety.
 
Can the government bar you from putting a loaded firearm in the hands of a five year-old? Yes, why? Because there’s a fair chance they’ll harm someone else with it, possibly killing them. Should the government force you to vaccinate your children? Probably, why? Because there’s a fair chance not having your child vaccinated will, through exposure, get someone else’s infant, who doesn’t have the immune system of your child, the disease before the infant is old enough to be able to get vaccinated themselves and at an age where they are at high risk of fatality.

The government of course has good reasons to force vaccinations; one of its major responsibilities is public safety.
The comparison is ridiculous. Five year olds also don’t go around shoving needles in people’s arms, either. These are both matters of personal choice, according to the government, shocking as that may seem. You are entitled to do with your children what you think is responsible, as am I.

Ethically, humans own themselves and should not have their right to self ownership violated. Biblically, God entrusted my child to my family and we have the responsibility to make the best stewardship choices. Neither of those rights have anything to do with the government intervention in the daily life of the child. Since we theoretically have some say in the matter, neither as voting Catholics should they, or the Hitler youth is right around the corner.
 
If vaccines come from aborted fetal tissue, then Henrietta Lacks is still alive and immortal.
Different tissues act in different ways. The HeLa cell line is cervical in origin (although, since it is a cancerous cell, doesn’t behave as a cervical cell). Other cell lines, some of which did come from elective abortions, come from other tissues (ie: lungs).
 
Unless the child is found to be allergic to the ingredients in the vaccine. I have never been vaccinated against smallpox. I am allergic to the ingredient in the vaccine and I have eczema. This was the reason my pediatrician told my mother not vaccinate me in 1963 at age 5. Neither my brother or sister have been vaccinated against smallpox, because of me.

Now my kids (no need for smallpox vaccine now) had all of their shots. My son has autism, high functioning. I have NEVER believed autism is caused by any childhood immunization. It is inherited from the father’s side of the family. Shake the family tree and you will find autism.

As for the vaccine made of aborted fetal tissue. I can honestly say I have never heard that.

My granddaugher age 2 mths just got her immunizations. My daughter’s best friend who has a baby the same age has chosen not to get her baby immunized. It is her choice not to.

I agree with thistle…the benefits outweigh the risks.

I would make sure that my child does not have any allergies that may trigger a reaction from the immuziation first.
 
You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts. And many things you have said here are provably not factual.
And the way that Drs come up with “facts” is a joke. So…

The only fact is that vaccine efficacy is highly challenged by the advances in sanitation that appeared close in history together. The actual data shows that most diseases that people get excited about actually peaked and started to decline before the introduction of the vaccine. Facts also show that most childhood diseases that we vaccinate for are statistically non-life threatening after the age of two, but we boost people through college. Not only that but a mother who is naturally immune can pass anti-bodies through her child through breast feeding, which ideally can last until two and does in many cultures. A Dr is a sales person, no different than a car salesman.

There is risk or death with a vaccine or without. This is the legacy of humanity since the time of Adam.
 
Why your child should get childhood immunizations.
I work in emergency medicine. I see lots of sick kids every shift. ALMOST EVERY TIME the sick kid just has a viral syndrome and simply needs alternating doses of acetaminophen (tylenol) and ibuprofen (motrin), more fluids, and close observation by mom and dad. If it’s not a viral syndrome, then it is probably strep throat or an ear infection and they get amoxicillin (although studies show that this is unnecessary, the kiddo will get better without the antibiotic). Rarely is it something more serious like appendicitis, but I always have to be on guard to find the more serious thing.

And then there are the un-vaccinated kids. These kids scare the HELL out of me because I have rarely, if ever, seen some of the diseases THAT THIS KID SHOULDN’T EVEN BE AT RISK FOR GETTING. I’ve never seen Diphtheria, Tetanus, Polio, or even mumps. Now this mild rash on the kids leg, which is almost assuredly just a viral xanthem (a viral “cold” in the skin) just might be a meningiococcal rash which means this kid could be dead in a few hours if I don’t diagnose it immediately and start intravenous antibiotics. That cough that the 4 month old has had for 3 days might not be his first case of viral bronchitis, it may be pertussis that can have him cough so much he gets hypoxic brain damage.

Here is a list of childhood vaccines that are recommended by the Centers for Disease Control. Next to the vaccine is the recommended age for first vaccination (most require multiple innoculations for best immunity). Then I describe to you what this MOSTLY PREVENTABLE disease can do to your child or to others.
**
meningiococcal** (6 weeks): This prevents a bacteria that wants to cause two different, but related diseases in your child: Meningococcemia and Meningitis.
Meningococcemia is a bacterial infection of the blood. It often starts with flu-like symptoms. A fever, nausea, body aches, headache, and tiredness. Sounds like the viral syndrome that every healthy kid gets several times a year. That rash on your child’s leg may look just like a viral xanthem when you bring them to see me in the ER. We give him acetaminophen in the ER, tell you to alternate with ibuprofen, push fluids, watch him closely, and bring him back if anything gets worse. The acetaminophen brings the fever down and you put him to bed. The next morning you go to wake him up and notice he is burning hot, his legs are all splotchy, and he doesn’t want to wake up. You rush him back to my ER where he is diagnosed with Meningiococcmia, started on intravenous antibiotics, put on a ventilator, and admitted to the ICU. If we are lucky your child will survive, although he will likely lose his legs.
Meningitis is an infection or inflammation of the lining around the brain and spinal cord. It can be caused by many different viruses or bacteria. Bacterial meningitis commonly has a much worse outcome in terms of death and long term disability than viral meningitis. Until the development of meningococcal and pneumococcal vaccines the most common cause of meningitis were these bacteria. Meningitis can also start with flu-like symptoms of fever, nausea, body and headaches, and fatigue…looks very much like that viral syndrome that your child gets several times a year. Bacterial meningitis however, can quickly move from these benign symptoms to permanent brain damage or death in a matter of hours.
Here are some links to videos of Meningococcemia and Bacterial Meningitis:
youtube.com/watch?v=B0PkeJsAtfM (in spanish, but pictures in the first two minutes tell the story)
youtube.com/watch?v=URKtW21a9So
youtube.com/watch?v=amVq0EH3Nvs (the caption states this was viral meningitis, but I doubt it was due to the need for amputation).
**
pneumococcus (2 month**) covers 13 of the worst serotypes of Streptococcus pneumoniae which are the second leading cause (next to Meningococcal) of bacterial meningitis. Strep pneumoniae is also a primary cause of ear infections and systemic blood infections. Some statistics say that, in developing countries, pneumococcus kills more kids than malaria, AIDS, and measles combined. Of course, as it’s name implies, it also is a primary cause of pneumonia.
Here’s what can happen to your child:
youtube.com/watch?v=0K9sz24Zn9k

Pertussis (2 months) Your kiddo comes home from school with a mild fever and a cough. This is going to happen a few times every school year, and you’re sure he will get better. If he’s vaccinated, he probably will. If he’s unvaccinated, you need to worry, because I certainly will in the emergency department because this may be whooping cough. No big deal if you bring him to see me because if I suspect it then I can treat it easily with an antibiotic. But the much bigger deal is your younger children, or your younger nieces and nephews who are not old enough to be immunized. Your unvaccinated child may have been carrying, and spreading, pertussis for as long as a MONTH before he started coughing. Now all of those unimmunized babies your child has been around may wind up in the pediatric ICU looking like this baby.
youtube.com/watch?v=S3oZrMGDMMw

.
 
Haemophilus Influenza B (2 months). Or that mild fever and cough could progress into something else, like epiglotittis. This is an inflammation of the epiglottis, which is the flap that covers your windpipe when you swallow so that food doesn’t go down it. What happens when your epiglottis gets inflammed? It covers that windpipe and you can’t breathe. This can happen very quickly and is an absolute emergency.
Code:
[youtube.com/watch?v=R9puIKVON-s](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9puIKVON-s)

What happens when your child can't breathe due to epiglottitis closing off his windpipe and you bring him to my ER?  I have to cut a hole in his throat so he breathe through it.  Here is a video of that procedure, although this is done in the operating room.  If I have to do it in the emergency department it is a lot faster, messier, and bloodier.  

Imagine watching me do this to your child in the emergency room:  [youtube.com/watch?v=6_0bH6KxPYA](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_0bH6KxPYA)

By the way, I've never done one of these in the ER.  If you don't get your child immunized with the HIB vaccine, your child may be the first one I do.
Diphtheria (2 months): Fever, chills, fatigue, cough, headache…sounds like the viral syndrome again doesn’t it? And it probably is, but if your child isn’t vaccinated it could be diphtheria. Your child’s lymph nodes in their neck may swell up so much that I have to put a tube down their throat so they can breathe. If I can’t get the tube down their throat, I may have to again cut a hole in your child’s throat so they can breathe. Diphtheria is fatal in upwards of 10% of cases, and possibly as high as 20% in the very young or elderly.

Polio (2 months): The poliovirus wants to attack the nerves that control your child’s muscles. Polio is almost wiped out from the planet due to the vaccines…but we could have said the same thing about Diphtheria 15 years ago before it’s resurgence. I’ve never seen a single case of it, so I’m sure I will miss it the first time I do see it.

Hep B (birth) - Very infective. Causes hepatitis which can lead to permanent liver damage, and sometimes death.

Hep A (1 year) - Similar to Hep B.

Rotavirus (2 month) - Very infective horrible diarrhea that can lead to severe dehydration and hospitalization. In America this has a very low death rate, but very uncomfortable for the child and parents.

tetanus (2 month) - If your child gets tetanus their muscles can cramp up so much that they break their own bones. Yes, your child can cramp up so much that they break their own bones. We can prevent that with tetanus vaccine.

Measles (1 year) - Fever, fatigue, body aches, and a rash everywhere. While not typically a fatal disease, it often progresses to a serious pneumonia that can require hospitalization.

mumps(1 year) Fever, fatigue for few days. Swelling in the throat. Usually goes away without any big deal. Unless you are a male who is past puberty, then you are at risk for inflammation of your testicles which can lead to infertility. Women too can have inflammation of her ovaries and infertility issues. And then there is the nearly 30% chance of spontaneous miscarriage if a pregnant woman contracts mumps.

rubella(1 year) Not commonly a significant disease for your child. But if your child gives it to a pregnant woman then the pre-born child is at high risk for congenital rubella syndrome (CRS). This results in a miscarriage approximately 20% of the time. The surviving babies have significant risk of being born with a wide range of deformities including mental retardation, deafness, cataracts, retina problems, congenital heart problems, small head, etc etc, etc.
This is what rubella vaccine prevents: youtube.com/watch?v=v_aQVcaQ_OU

Varicella(1 year) Yeah, I know, it’s only chickenpox. You probably had chickenpox when you were a child and you don’t think it’s a big deal. It usually isn’t. It can RARELY cause swelling around the brain, but that’s very rare. However the bigger consequence of chickenpox happens 30-60 years AFTER they go away because, you see, the virus never really goes away. It just hides in a nerve root for decades until it comes back as shingles which is an incredibly painful rash. I’ve had to put people into the hospital before just to control their pain.

HPV (11 year) prevents most of the papilloma viruses that cause the most aggressive forms of cervical cancer. While cervical cancer can be detected early by annual pap smears, these pap smears on detect the cancer, they don’t prevent or treat it. Furthermore many young woman do not get the pap smears, and don’t go to the doctor until they have symptoms. But in that respect cervical cancer is like colon cancer; once you have symptoms, you probably have very advanced disease.

Now you know the risks of NOT getting the vaccines. While there is some small risk from getting vaccines (injection site discomfort, guillain-barre, anaphylaxis, etc), these risk are miniscule compared to the risks of preventable diseaes
 
And the way that Drs come up with “facts” is a joke. So…

The only fact is that vaccine efficacy is highly challenged by the advances in sanitation that appeared close in history together. The actual data shows that most diseases that people get excited about actually peaked and started to decline before the introduction of the vaccine. Facts also show that most childhood diseases that we vaccinate for are statistically non-life threatening after the age of two, but we boost people through college. Not only that but a mother who is naturally immune can pass anti-bodies through her child through breast feeding, which ideally can last until two and does in many cultures. A Dr is a sales person, no different than a car salesman.

There is risk or death with a vaccine or without. This is the legacy of humanity since the time of Adam.
Ubi - you are so wrong, and in so many ways, I don’t even know where to start. I fear you have gotten one-sided information for far too long for you to have any chance of giving someone else’s opinion any validity.

Absolutely sanitation reduced diseases, but not the ones we can vaccinate against (except Hep A). Sanitation reduced cholera dysentery, not meningitis, pneumonia, rubella, etc.

Yes, most of the vaccine preventable diseases do not have a high mortality rate in developed countries, especially over 2 years old (some do though, like meningitis). But vaccines are not all about preventing death, they are also about preventing morbidity (sickness). Can you imagine the angst of a woman on the ultrasound table being told that her 7 month pre-born baby is anencephalic because of her rubella syndrome? Or the 20 year old man that he is sterile because of the mumps?

Lastly…if I was a salesman I would be making a lot more money than I am now.
 
Sorry, but whenever I see someone vehemently arguing against vaccines I see a well-meaning parent who is woefully scientifically illiterate, and can’t tell the difference between the decades of reproduce-able, peer-reviewed data of clinical trials and some bogus “Moms Against Big Bad Vaccines” website. All of these horrific life-threatening, crippling diseases mentioned in this thread did not just disappear from society on their own! If you don’t vaccinate your child, and they can safely grow up without contracting any of the aforementioned diseases, it’s ONLY because every parent around you had the sense to vaccinate their children, thus keeping yours healthy. Vaccines are not 100% effective, and there are some people for whom they do not work, and these people must rely on the immunity of others to stay well. Not vaccinating your child is not only putting your own child at risk, but it is putting other people’s children at risk for whom the vaccine may not have been effective. These little pockets of measles outbreaks and so forth are from groups who decline to vaccinate because they do not understand the difference between actual scientific research, and bad “Sciencey-sounding” scare tactic speculation.

As far as the vaccines in question, please trust the Vatican.
 
Actually, I genuinely believe that the immune system God created is far superior than the toxic/poison fueled medical industry. There are many scientific view and many are black listed by the medical industry with the help of the government. Humans, historically speaking, have issues with hubris and greed when in positions of power.

My original point, which you are free to disagree with, is that it is ludicrous for someone to compel you to vaccinate your child if you are opposed. Ethically and morally ludicrous.
Around the world this has saved millions of children!
 
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