Refutation of Relativism

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This premise… that moral absolutes exist… is the antithisis of relativism. The syllogism would be something lke: relativism insists there are no absolutes. Moral absolutes exist, therefore, relativism is not relevant
I agree that relativism is not relevant. Where we may disagree is that many of us have been arguing that absolutism is also irrelevant. Absolutism only becomes relevant when you can say what statements are absolutely true and how we can know these truths and make knockdown arguments that will convince everyone else of these truths.

Best,
Leela
 
I think everyone is open to the possibility that moral absolutes exist. We just want you to tell us what they are and how you know.
You can know through two ways.
  1. Revelation. To help us better understand the end and purpose of moral truth. Since the end or purpose greatly affects what is truly right and what is truly wrong. With out this we cannot claim that we really know what is wrong. we can have some idea, but sooner or later we are going to make mistakes like supporting abortion.
  2. We can also know through inductive and deductive reasoning reason by focusing on our experiences and meditating on the nature of love, in regards to the revelatory end and purpose of existence.
For example, if the purpose of life is eternal perfection and joy, then we can know through the contemplation of love that we must practice virtue and selflessness.

Take for instance hedonism. Its a growing popularity to view the hedonistic lifestyle as normal and healthy. But Christianity teaches that sleeping around is wrong. Now; for a person who likes sleeping around and having orgies, this might seem unreasonable since we are sexual creatures by nature, right?

But if a person “ought to be loved”, and the purpose of life is love, and if love is eternal and true, and if the greatest good is the spiritual fulfillment of a person, then we would be degrading people by viewing them as merely opportunities for sexual gratification. If we truly value a person, and respect their objective value as people, then we must always respect them and place their value above the object of any desire; and we must communicate with them in respect of their person, rather then their object. To view a women as the nearest Virgina for sexual relief is to view them as objects; which undermines there personal value as people. Rather then seek our own sexual gratification, we ought to love them like sisters or brothers, and if we want** companionship**, it must be ultimately on the basis of them being persons; and since the greatest fulfillment and good for humanity is eternal love and perfection, then we ought to love them until death do us part before we ever engage with them sexually. In other words, people ought to be married in the name of love (God) so far as the premise of moral absolutes is true. Otherwise we are degrading the value of their humanity. Now one may see this as strict, and a young couple may not see a problem with a one night stand so long as they are consenting adults. But the reality still remains that, so far as a person ought to be loved, and the greatest good is love, we are demoralizing and **degrading **our very nature of being. there is no escaping it logically, unless one rejects moral absolutes altogether, which is hardly surprising that a person would do that.

This is what i mean by objective “ends” and “purposes”, and their importance in understanding what is truly right and wrong. What we see in Catholic sexuality is not the suppression of human sexuality, but so far as moral absolutes are true, we are in fact seeing the perfect fulfillment of human sexuality as it truly should be so far as it sanctifies and perfects the objective value of the human being.

Once one sees this truth, one realizes that the Catholic faith is absolutely beautiful, and is in fact one of the last lines of defense against moral destruction. The very sanctity of human dignity rests in the Catholic Faith.

But hey…I’m thick. What would i know about moral truth.

Peace.
 
This premise… that moral absolutes exist… is the antithisis of relativism.
Dear Susan1006

Your first sentence “This premise… that moral absolutes exist… is the antithisis of relativism.” is sufficient. It is the perfect refutation of relativism.👍

Blessings,
granny

All human life is worthy of profound respect is both a moral absolute and an objective truth.
 
You can know through two ways.
  1. Revelation. To help us better understand the end and purpose of moral truth. Since the end or purpose greatly affects what is truly right and what is truly wrong. With out this we cannot claim that we really know what is wrong. we can have some idea, but sooner or later we are going to make mistakes like supporting abortion.
  2. We can also know through inductive and deductive reasoning reason by focusing on our experiences and meditating on the nature of love, in regards to the revelatory end and purpose of existence.
For example, if the purpose of life is eternal perfection and joy, then we can know through the contemplation of love that we must practice virtue and selflessness.

Take for instance hedonism. Its a growing popularity to view the hedonistic lifestyle as normal and healthy. But Christianity teaches that sleeping around is wrong. Now; for a person who likes sleeping around and having orgies, this might seem unreasonable since we are sexual creatures by nature, right?

But if a person “ought to be loved”, and the purpose of life is love, and if love is eternal and true, and if the greatest good is the spiritual fulfillment of a person, then we would be degrading people by viewing them as merely opportunities for sexual gratification. If we truly value a person, and respect their objective value as people, then we must always respect them and place their value above the object of any desire; and we must communicate with them in respect of their person, rather then their object. To view a women as the nearest Virgina for sexual relief is to view them as objects; which undermines there personal value as people. Rather then seek our own sexual gratification, we ought to love them like sisters or brothers, and if we want** companionship**, it must be ultimately on the basis of them being persons; and since the greatest fulfillment and good for humanity is eternal love and perfection, then we ought to love them until death do us part before we ever engage with them sexually. In other words, people ought to be married in the name of love (God) so far as the premise of moral absolutes is true. Otherwise we are degrading the value of their humanity. Now one may see this as strict, and a young couple may not see a problem with a one night stand so long as they are consenting adults. But the reality still remains that, so far as a person ought to be loved, and the greatest good is love, we are demoralizing and **degrading **our very nature of being. there is no escaping it logically, unless one rejects moral absolutes altogether, which is hardly surprising that a person would do that.

This is what i mean by objective “ends” and “purposes”, and their importance in understanding what is truly right and wrong. What we see in Catholic sexuality is not the suppression of human sexuality, but so far as moral absolutes are true, we are in fact seeing the perfect fulfillment of human sexuality as it truly should be so far as it sanctifies and perfects the objective value of the human being.

Once one sees this truth, one realizes that the Catholic faith is absolutely beautiful, and is in fact one of the last lines of defense against moral destruction. The very sanctity of human dignity rests in the Catholic Faith.

Since I have not had the experience of any special revelation, your #1 does not help me. And I have no reason to believe that you have had any truths revealed to you or even that there is any reality that needs to be revealed that is different from appearances.

As for #2, this is the sort of conversation that people can have. We can attempt to rationally justify our beliefs to one another as you have tried to do above. But any claims that you make about possessing revealed truth in such a conversation will not help you convince anyone else.

Best,
Leela
 
Dear Susan1006

Your first sentence “This premise… that moral absolutes exist… is the antithisis of relativism.” is sufficient. It is the perfect refutation of relativism.👍

Blessings,
granny

All human life is worthy of profound respect is both a moral absolute and an objective truth.
Hi granny,

Really?? Simply claiming that moral absolutes exist refutes relativism? I can’t see how.

But then I also can’t see how either position is worth arguing for or against.

Best,
Leela
 
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