Refuting Muslim Lies About John 20:28

[DeusVult09]

If water’s purity is corrupted by mud then there will still be water contained in the new mixture.
This famous saying was made by ZAKI.

wasalam

So basically anything that confirms the Koran is uncorrupted and anything which goes against it is corrupted? Haha that is far from being proof of any kind. Asi have already said to you zaki research the corruption of the koran beforey ou complain about the bible

 

[DeusVult09]

I would just like to say that you will not win any Muslim converts to the Church by telling Muslims that their spiritual leaders are lying to them. Furthermore, Muslims who interpret the Bible the way you are saying they do are NOT lying. To lie, you have to be intentionally deceiving someone. Therefore, those that believe this are NOT lying by saying so. To say they are would be like saying that Protestants who claim that there is no Biblical support for the Pope are lying, they are simply wrong. There is a very big difference.

Also, this whole question is really not that important as (from what I understand) Muslims don’t believe the Bible we have is the original one, they believe that ours is incredibly different.

When did I say I am trying to win muslim converts? I am not a missionary and my only goal in posting this thread was to inform catholics about the truth so they don’t get sucked in by muslim with their lies about this verse. I systematically disproved their lies using the original greek, to show their readings are impossible.

Muslims propagate lies based on misinformation and ignorance about the bible. This is a fact. Maybe they don’t know it is a lie because of their lack of knowledge but I have proven that it is conclusively, yet Muslims continue to hold to this misinformation as if it was true.

 

[Reuben_J]

JamesRottnek:

I would just like to say that you will not win any Muslim converts to the Church by telling Muslims that their spiritual leaders are lying to them. Furthermore, Muslims who interpret the Bible the way you are saying they do are NOT lying. To lie, you have to be intentionally deceiving someone. Therefore, those that believe this are NOT lying by saying so. To say they are would be like saying that Protestants who claim that there is no Biblical support for the Pope are lying, they are simply wrong. There is a very big difference.

Also, this whole question is really not that important as (from what I understand) Muslims don’t believe the Bible we have is the original one, they believe that ours is incredibly different.

I would not say Muslims are lying but that because it would makes me look bad and it would be the worst way to make friends besides being bad apologetic. However the way it works out it would be amounting to the same thing – modern Muslims scholars need to improvise to reconcile the fact that the Quran does indeed make error vis-à-vis the Bible.

I would only say the Quran is false in the same way Muslims say the Bible is corrupted, that is, both of us do not believe in the authority of the other book respectively.

In order to improvise modern Muslims have to lie; there is no other way around it. The Quran is in error in many aspects.

The tragedy or otherwise is Mohammad never believed that the Bible was corrupted. Surely he thought he quoted and referred to the Bible as it was that he knew of. Mohammad was not a scholar nor particularly educated but nevertheless a man of ability. Later evidence indeed showed that he could read and write basically.

The problem about an uneducated person was that he was quite satisfied the knowledge of the Bible he had was the one by main line Christians. It was not, unfortunately. His source was Christian heretics. Until now Muslims believe that Mohammad’s Christians source was representative of the true Christians at that time. “How do you know that yours was the correct version (of Christianity/Gospel) and not the other?” Muslims would say. They maintain that over time this Christian sect simply disappeared from the scene (after perhaps being assimilated and converted to Islam / Islamic countries or overwhelmed by the stronger and the more organized Christian Church).

Thus I would say modern Muslim scholars need to lie (that the Bible is corrupted or misinterpreted) in order that the Quran is absolved of error. Mohammad never did say the Bible was corrupted and there is no evidence that the Quran says the same.
Mohammad asked the Muslims to refer to the people of the book (Christians or Jews) about their scriptures. Ironically the ‘people of the book’ is still in existence today but these were not whom he meant. His heretics whom he actually considered the people of the book and they no longer were.

It was a massive farce. Without the racial element, jealousy and politic, Islam would never make it today but because of those factors, as it would often the case, it flourishes. As were the Communists, fascists and socialists, the phase would wear out eventually.

God bless.

 

[Jay53]

For a Muslim the matter is simple. The Qur’an very explicitly states that Jesus was not forsaken by God to the Jews to be crucified, rather “it was made to appear so to them.” So the claim that Jesus came to Thomas and asked him to witness the imprint of the nail in his hand and the spear in his side is, for a Muslim, clear evidence that this whole episode was a fabrication and later insertion. However, since a Muslim’s claim in this regard would not be regarded as authoritative unbiased proof in this matter, therefore, it is necessary to use a little logic to arrive at the truth.

This is just what I am unable to grasp in my mind. Is the only reason you believe the account of Thomas to be fabricated is because it says so in the Quran? If so, then why do you choose to believe Muhammad over the previous scriptures when there is no other evidence that these previous scriptures are wrong/fabricated. Why do Muslims not logically say, “Hey, this contradicts previous scriptures which were already deemed to be from God. What proof do we have to believe this new version?” I honestly just don’t get this. Unless it is simply that the people that Muhammad was able to convince didn’t know what the previous scriptures said and so they didn’t know that there were contradictions so they just went ahead and believed Muhammad and it just snow-balled from there.

 

[DeusVult09]

This is just what I am unable to grasp in my mind. Is the only reason you believe the account of Thomas to be fabricated is because it says so in the Quran? If so, then why do you choose to believe Muhammad over the previous scriptures when there is no other evidence that these previous scriptures are wrong/fabricated. Why do Muslims not logically say, “Hey, this contradicts previous scriptures which were already deemed to be from God. What proof do we have to believe this new version?” I honestly just don’t get this. Unless it is simply that the people that Muhammad was able to convince didn’t know what the previous scriptures said and so they didn’t know that there were contradictions so they just went ahead and believed Muhammad and it just snow-balled from there.

Its because Muslims read the bible with a very biased and selective hermeneutics that is how the text in our contemporary situation and as they automatically know that the Koran is the only word of god anything which contradicts it is automatically false. But this doesn’t take into account for the possibility that the Koran itself could be false. And by solely examining the bible though this hermeneutical lens they totally ignore the process of exegesis, that is trying to get back to the original intent of the author. Muslim scholars twist the bible to suit their own beliefs and that is why I think they are so dangerous.

 

[DeusVult09]

I would not say Muslims are lying but that because it would makes me look bad and it would be the worst way to make friends besides being bad apologetic. However the way it works out it would be amounting to the same thing – modern Muslims scholars need to improvise to reconcile the fact that the Quran does indeed make error vis-à-vis the Bible.

I would only say the Quran is false in the same way Muslims say the Bible is corrupted, that is, both of us do not believe in the authority of the other book respectively.

In order to improvise modern Muslims have to lie; there is no other way around it. The Quran is in error in many aspects.

The tragedy or otherwise is Mohammad never believed that the Bible was corrupted. Surely he thought he quoted and referred to the Bible as it was that he knew of. Mohammad was not a scholar nor particularly educated but nevertheless a man of ability. Later evidence indeed showed that he could read and write basically.

The problem about an uneducated person was that he was quite satisfied the knowledge of the Bible he had was the one by main line Christians. It was not, unfortunately. His source was Christian heretics. Until now Muslims believe that Mohammad’s Christians source was representative of the true Christians at that time. “How do you know that yours was the correct version (of Christianity/Gospel) and not the other?” Muslims would say. They maintain that over time this Christian sect simply disappeared from the scene (after perhaps being assimilated and converted to Islam / Islamic countries or overwhelmed by the stronger and the more organized Christian Church).

Thus I would say modern Muslim scholars need to lie (that the Bible is corrupted or misinterpreted) in order that the Quran is absolved of error. Mohammad never did say the Bible was corrupted and there is no evidence that the Quran says the same.
Mohammad asked the Muslims to refer to the people of the book (Christians or Jews) about their scriptures. Ironically the ‘people of the book’ is still in existence today but these were not whom he meant. His heretics whom he actually considered the people of the book and they no longer were.

It was a massive farce. Without the racial element, jealousy and politic, Islam would never make it today but because of those factors, as it would often the case, it flourishes. As were the Communists, fascists and socialists, the phase would wear out eventually.

God bless.

You are right there is not one verse in the Koran saying in any explicit terms that the bible is corrupted. No verse calls the gospels corrupted. There is nothing of the kind just some vague verses which Muslims say are referring to the bible but nowhere does it ever say that the bible is anything other than a previous revelation. Early Muslims didn’t think the bible was corrupted. That belief didn’t come about till the 9th century when a Muslim scholar examining the bible and the Koran, noticing the disparity between the two texts said it was because it was corrupted. And Muslim have done the same thing ever since.

Mohammad had limited knowledge of the bible probably through Christians and Jews he encountered and included extrabiblical material in his Koran not knowing it was extrabiblical, I go into in detail in my other post “Islam’s plagiarized origins” where i prove Mohammad plagiarized many apocryphal gospels, Christian hymns etc but Mohammad also plagiarized the Talmud and various verses from there made it into the Koran. So the koran is really a mix of many texts which because Mohamamd couldn’t read , he didn’t know their origin.