Refuting Protestants who harp on Marian devotions using 1 Tim 2:5

[TBolt1000T]

How would I refute Protestant arguments that use 1 Tim 2:5 to bash Marian devotions? Maybe I don’t understand what Mediatrix means…

 

[promethius]

How would I refute Protestant arguments that use 1 Tim 2:5 to bash Marian devotions? Maybe I don’t understand what Mediatrix means…

It’s a fundamental misunderstanding on the part of the protestants, who do not recognize the difference between mediating salvation and mediating through intercession and cooperation with Christ.

Mediatrix means that Mary cooperated in God’s plan for the salvation of Man. It means that when God said (through His angel), “This is what I want for you,” Mary replied “Yes God.” In that way Jesus was born into the world through her.

We should note that mediatrix is not a specific office. If Mary had said no, then there would have been a different mediatrix. By contrast, Mediator is a set office assigned to a single person: Christ (insofar as mediating salvation). This is because the mediatrix cooperates in God’s plan, but is not the source of redemptive Grace.

Further, Marian devotion is about intercessory mediation, not salvific. UNfortunately, protestants don’t seem to read enough of their bibles to know that we’re SUPPOSED to pray for each others’ salvation (probably a by-product of OSAS theology), AND that those who are with Christ in Heaven are still bound by the laws of God and therefore are ALSO required to be praying for us.

 

[tobinatorstark]

Maybe this excerpt from the Haydock Bible Commentary might be of some benefit to you
If there be other mediators among the Angels and saints, they are only so in subordination to the first [to Christ], who by themselves have no right to mediation or favours, and who cannot demand them but through the merits of him [of Christ] who is our only essential mediator

 

[TBolt1000T]

It’s a fundamental misunderstanding on the part of the protestants, who do not recognize the difference between mediating salvation and mediating through intercession and cooperation with Christ.

Mediatrix means that Mary cooperated in God’s plan for the salvation of Man. It means that when God said (through His angel), “This is what I want for you,” Mary replied “Yes God.” In that way Jesus was born into the world through her.

We should note that mediatrix is not a specific office. If Mary had said no, then there would have been a different mediatrix. By contrast, Mediator is a set office assigned to a single person: Christ (insofar as mediating salvation). This is because the mediatrix cooperates in God’s plan, but is not the source of redemptive Grace.

Further, Marian devotion is about intercessory mediation, not salvific. UNfortunately, protestants don’t seem to read enough of their bibles to know that we’re SUPPOSED to pray for each others’ salvation (probably a by-product of OSAS theology), AND that those who are with Christ in Heaven are still bound by the laws of God and therefore are ALSO required to be praying for us.

What then would I do with this quote from the Mediatrix article from Wikipedia?

“A second opinion states that Mary, assumed into heaven, participates in the mediating of divine graces of her son.”

Is that also correct, and how do I refute Protestants who use 1 Tim 2:5 against that?

 

[promethius]

What then would I do with this quote from the Mediatrix article from Wikipedia?

“A second opinion states that Mary, assumed into heaven, participates in the mediating of divine graces of her son.”

Is that also correct, and how do I refute Protestants who use 1 Tim 2:5 against that?

Never ever never take wikipedia as an authoritative source… especially on a section where references are not provided to back up data (although since most people don’t even look at the reference list, false references can be used as well).

Mary’s role, having entered heaven and the Divine presence of God is insomuch as intercessory mediation… that is, she participates so far as she brings our petition to Christ and God, from whom all good things come. It is still subordinate mediation in comparison to the salvific kind discussed in typical protestant objections.

 

[TBolt1000T]

Never ever never take wikipedia as an authoritative source… especially on a section where references are not provided to back up data (although since most people don’t even look at the reference list, false references can be used as well).

Mary’s role, having entered heaven and the Divine presence of God is insomuch as intercessory mediation… that is, she participates so far as she brings our petition to Christ and God, from whom all good things come. It is still subordinate mediation in comparison to the salvific kind discussed in typical protestant objections.

Thanks Promethius. You’re right, I don’t usually look at the refference lists for Wikipedia articles.

I have another question. How would I explain Confession to a priest as not being salvific mediation? I know that the sacrament of Confession comes from John 20:21-23, but some Protestants just don’t get it.

 

[rocketrob]

How would I refute Protestant arguments that use 1 Tim 2:5 to bash Marian devotions? Maybe I don’t understand what Mediatrix means…

You could quote 1 Tim 2:1-4.

rocketrob

 

[Ruthie]

According to my Strong’s Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary, the Greek word (G3316) translated as “mediator” in that passage has three meanings: “a go-between, i.e. (simply) an internunciator, or (by implication) a reconciler (intercessor) :- mediator.”

We know that Jesus is far more than a go-between. I can’t find a definition of “internunciator,” but “inter” is between, and I think “nunciate” is speak. So perhaps it means one who carries words between. Jesus doesn’t just carry our words to God.

He is our reconciler.

Mary helps Him mediate by being a go-between, and by taking our prayers to Him. So she meets the first two definitions.

HTH. I’m not at my best today.

Ruthie

 

[promethius]

I have another question. How would I explain Confession to a priest as not being salvific mediation? I know that the sacrament of Confession comes from John 20:21-23, but some Protestants just don’t get it.

Well, you explaini it like this:

1. Confession is clearly scriptural (as you’ve noted)
2. There is a duality in the confessional, you speak to the man of the priest, but it is Christ who hears us. The priest’s job as a man is to forgive your sins here on earth. Having done that, Christ, acting in personae Christi through the priest, forgives the spiritual nature of sin in heaven. Is the sacrament of reconciliation a salvific type act? Of course, all of the sacraments are designed to bring us into a higher state of grace. But the thing that your protestant friend needs to understand is that Christ is not only present, but an active participant in each of the sacraments.