Refuting Rudolf Steiner

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Does anyone know anything about anthroposophism founded by Rudolf Steiner? The Waldorf Schools follow this religion and my sister-in-law has studied it for more than 20 years and is convinced that it is true. I know a lot about the teachings; some are very disturbing in their implcations. I would like to know if anyone knows of someone who believed in it and then turned back to Christianity? If so, what coused them to do so.
 
Hi Claire, from time to time one of his catalogs makes its way into my mail box. From looking through his catalogs when I got them I recognised his group as being nothing more than a sub-sect of theosophy which is a form of “spiritual evolution”.

google.com/custom?domains=apologeticsindex.org%3Breligionnewsblog.com&q=+theosophy&sa=Google+Search&sitesearch=www.apologeticsindex.org&client=pub-5989226684573166&forid=1&ie=ISO-8859-1&oe=ISO-8859-1&cof=GALT%3A%23008000%3BGL%3A1%3BDIV%3A%23336699%3BVLC%3A663399%3BAH%3Acenter%3BBGC%3AFFFFFF%3BLBGC%3A336699%3BALC%3A0000FF%3BLC%3A0000FF%3BT%3A000000%3BGFNT%3A0000FF%3BGIMP%3A0000FF%3BFORID%3A1&hl=en

Consequently, Steiner was invited to speak to a gathering of Theosophists.
steinerbooks.org/aboutrudolf.html
steinercollege.edu/rs.html

Steiner’s collected works include about 40 volumes of his writings and more than 300 volumes of lectures. His most notable writings include:

Philosophy of Freedom (1893) (also translated as Philosophy of Spiritual Activity): his chief philosophical work; see above.

Theosophy: An Introduction (1904), in which he sets forth his ideas of the body-soul-spirit constitution of the human being, reincarnation, and the unity of the spiritual and sense-perceptible (“as two sides of a single coin”).

Knowledge of Higher Worlds (1904/5), in which he describes his conception of a path of spiritual development, detailing many principles of life (openness, positivity, respect for others), spiritual exercises (control of thought and will, directed imaginations) and experiences likely to arise on this path (trials and spiritual perceptions).

An Outline of Esoteric Science (1910), in which he describes a vast panorama of cosmic evolution, the spiritual hierarchies that guide this evolution, and the path of spiritual development that leads to such perceptions.

Steiner led the following esoteric schools:

His independent Esoteric School of the Theosophical Society, founded in 1904. This school continued after the break with Theosophy (see below)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolf_Steiner#Spiritual_research

If your sister beleives in reincarnation, read her Hebrews 9:27, “first death than judgement” along with Matthew 25:46 “these eternal life, the others eternal punishment”. If the Christian theology is right then when she dies, she will go to Hell. Matthew 7:22-24 “I never knew you, depart from me your evil doers”. If reincarnation is right, then Chrisitans because we live a righteous life in Christ Jesus will evolve into the next level.

I would hit on the doctrine of Sin heavy, talk to her about the commandments of God, try to get her lost by admiting her shortcomings and sins.

Romans 3:23

for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Romans 6:23

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

1 John 1:8-10

8If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.

Isaiah 43:10

“You are my witnesses,” declares the LORD,
"and my servant whom I have chosen,
so that you may know and believe me
and understand that I am he.
Before me no god was formed,
nor will there be one after me.

Also, likely but I do not know, she may seperate Christ as a christ-conscieousness from the man Jesus, the way shower.

If this is the case, read the book of first John.

1 John 4

1Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

The gnostics denied that existence of matter, they saw matter as somehow evil, and God who is pure good would not enter matter.

1 John 2:22

Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist—he denies the Father and the Son.

The gnostics of Johns time believed that a christ spirit came onto Jesus at his baptism, and left him on the cross. Today, such groups speak of Christ Consciousness that anyone can take on. It appears they use “Christ Impulse” as the term to describe this concept.
 
The gnostics of Johns time believed that a christ spirit came onto Jesus at his baptism, and left him on the cross. Today, such groups speak of Christ Consciousness that anyone can take on. It appears they use “Christ Impulse” as the term to describe this concept.
google.com/custom?hl=en&client=pub-5989226684573166&cof=FORID%3A1%3BGL%3A1%3BLBGC%3A336699%3BLC%3A%230000ff%3BVLC%3A%23663399%3BGFNT%3A%230000ff%3BGIMP%3A%230000ff%3BDIV%3A%23336699%3B&domains=apologeticsindex.org%3Breligionnewsblog.com&ie=ISO-8859-1&oe=ISO-8859-1&q=christ+conscious+Rudolf+Steiner&btnG=Search&sitesearch=

John 14:6

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Not just a way shower, he is the Way.

expect, pride in her self to spiritual evolve to be her greatest weakness.

Push the sin issue.

Matthew 7:22-24 (New International Version)

22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

24"Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock.
 
She is like a person pulling up on her boot staps trying to raise herself up to heaven ( which she may redefine as simply being a state of mind ).

Isaiah 64:6
But we are all like an unclean thing,And all our righteousnesses are like filthy rags; We all fade as a leaf, And our iniquities, like the wind, Have taken us away.

This text speaks of the self righteousness of the natural man, who is not born again of the true Holy Spirit of God, and of Christ.

General scriptures concerning self righteousness,

(Numbers 16:3; Deuteronomy 9:4-6; 1 Samuel 2:9; Job 6:13;11:4-6;🙂
INSTANCES OF » Saul (1 Samuel 15:13-31)
INSTANCES OF » Pharisees (Luke 11:33-54; John 8:33-59;9:28-34)
INSTANCES OF » Israel (Romans 10:3)
INSTANCES OF » The Laodicean congregation (Revelations 3:17)

Deuteronomy 29:19

Listen to this passage

19 When such a person hears the words of this oath, he invokes a blessing on himself and therefore thinks, “I will be safe, even though I persist in going my own way.” This will bring disaster on the watered land as well as the dry. [a]

Footnotes:

Deuteronomy 29:19 Or way, in order to add drunkenness to thirst."

New International Version (NIV)
Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society

1 Kings 20:11

Listen to this passage

11 The king of Israel answered, "Tell him: ‘One who puts on his armor should not boast like one who takes it off.’ "

Proverbs 3:5

Trust in the LORD with all your heart
and lean not on your own understanding;

Proverbs 23:4

Do not wear yourself out to get rich;
have the wisdom to show restraint.

Proverbs 26:12

Do you see a man wise in his own eyes?
There is more hope for a fool than for him.

Proverbs 28:26

He who trusts in himself is a fool,
but he who walks in wisdom is kept safe.

biblegateway.com/topical/topical_resource.php?source=1&tid=4317
biblegateway.com/topical/topical_resource.php?source=1&tid=4311

biblegateway.com/topical/topical_searchresults.php?source=1&search=self%20righteousness&searchtype=any&offset=10

Basically, you will need to contrast self righteousness with true righteousness from a biblical, christian perspective.

👍
 
Daniel, Thanks for all the citations. I’ll have to examine them carefully. My sister-in-law was Catholic, then lapsed Catholic (I think partly because of teaching on birth control), then got interested in anthroposophism, sent the kids to a Waldorf school where they did get a very good education, joined a Friend’s meeting. Now, after more than 25 years, she is convinced of anthroposophism and still attends Friend’s meetings. She is very intelligent. She went to Catholic schools and college but somehow was not well formed in the faith and my brother was the same way. What they know about the faith was what they “knew” at age 20 after attending school in the '60’s. I don’t know what would make her look toward the church again. She believes in reincarnation and has said she would take her life if she was very ill and a burden to others; my brother said the same. I don’t know that bible citations would convince her. I rather imagine that she looks on Steiner’s teachings as esoteric knowledge which gives her an insight into what the bible “really” means. I’d love to talk to someone who converted to Christianity/Catholicism after believing in anthroposophism.
 
Yes, it is amazing what we as humans sometimes do to justify our sinful behaviour(contraception). One way is to criticize that someone or something(the Church) to keep it at arms length and then find a lower replacement to fill the gap partially.
 
Have you looked into any catholic mystics worth giving her a book by as a means of drawing her back to the catholic fold?

I seem to remember a book on practicing the prescence of God or something like that.
 
Daniel_Marsh said:
Have you looked into any catholic mystics worth giving her a book by as a means of drawing her back to the catholic fold?

I seem to remember a book on practicing the prescence of God or something like that.
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That would be brother Lawrence. I don’t think that would help, but the idea about the mystics is a good one. I might check in the Catholic bookstore. Teresa of Avila or Julian of Norwich might be good, very different from each other.
 
Daniel_Marsh said:
Have you looked into any catholic mystics worth giving her a book by as a means of drawing her back to the catholic fold?

I seem to remember a book on practicing the prescence of God or something like that.
Click to expand...
By the way, your links to info on Steiner were very interesting, and disturbing.
 
Hi Claire,

I was never a follower of Steiner, so I know very little about his teachings specifically. However, I’ve spent several years learning from other teachers in esoteric studies that have a strong relationship to the methods taught in Steiner’s school.

That being said, I’m not going to help you - at least not in the way that you want me to. That is to say, I’m not going to compose an argument that you can give to your sister-in-law that will convince her that his teachings are false, because frankly, I think it’s a moot point. From my perspective, it doesn’t matter whether or not Steiner is all washed up, since there are more pressing issues to be dealt with here.

First of all, you indicated that your sister-in-law is convinced of the teachings of Steiner. This can be very dangerous from two perspectives: the Catholic perspective, and the esoteric perspective. The danger from the Catholic perspective seems obvious. You’re here asking about this because you recognize that danger. The danger from the esoteric perspective might be something you’re less familiar with, and that is what I am going to focus on here.

First, I feel it is important to identify the source of your sister-in-law’s convictions. I state this, because the primary purpose of esoteric studies (like Steiner’s) is to be able to ascertain the reality of the teachings for yourself, through your own experience. This is accomplished primarily by removing our own internal obstacles to such experiences. This process involves heavy introspection and objective analysis. The obstacles I refer to are numerous and varied, but one such obstacle is belief (in things like reincarnation).

Steiner places an emphasis on knowing the higher worlds, as Daniel hinted at in his first post. However, as I’m sure Steiner would agree, Steiner’s knowledge of the higher worlds is of only limited usefulness to us as individuals. This is similar to Buddhism, where Shakyamuni’s enlightenment is very wonderful, but doesn’t do us any good unless we subsequently use his teachings to attain our own enlightenment.

That being said, as I have been taught, we cannot know higher worlds until we know the world we are in right now. That is to say, we must first learn how to see the physical world free of the subjective coloring that comes from beliefs, concepts, and theories. If our perception is distorted and subjective in the physical world, it will be even more so in the higher worlds, and it may even preclude us from experiencing those worlds altogether.

The esoteric schools frequently mention this (you’ve probably heard your sister-in-law talking about these things before), but often it is not properly emphasized or understood. Esotericism, like Steiner taught, is not meant to be another belief system to replace the one we had before (Catholicism in your sister-in-law’s case), however it is frequently used as such, to the detriment of all the aspiring students.

With regards to reincarnation in particular, we don’t even have to consider whether or not it is true (which is also something that Daniel hinted at). Rather, we must work diligently with what we have here, now. And what we have here is this life, which we should strive to know deeply and fully. If your sister-in-law vividly and clearly remembers her past lives, that is wonderful for her. However, if she does not, she would be better off being free from any fantasies or concepts derived from possessing that world view and instead focused more attention on the life that she has. Furthermore, even if reincarnation is true, it is wise to remember that in none of the (eastern) scriptures is it ever stated that we are guaranteed to have a pleasant life, or even a human body, the next time we enter the physical world. Stories abound where even those people who lived good, wholesome lives, nevertheless incarnated in hell during their next “life,” or were forced to live as animals or bugs for thousands of generations before finally receiving a human body again. Thus, even under a belief in reincarnation (if that belief is to be in accordance with the scriptures and teachings of the religions from which it originates), there is an importance to treating this body, and this life, as all that we have.
 
Furthermore, I find it remarkable that your sister chose to leave the Church over issues with birth control, and subsequently entered an esoteric school. In my experience, the esoteric practices (when properly applied), demand far more from an individual than the Church would ever dream of asking. While esotericism has no explicit restrictions on behavior to speak of, it seems to make it quite clear that those who do not voluntarily abide by certain fundamental guidelines will not get very far in their spiritual practice.

I say all this since I would be more worried about the root of your sister-in-law’s objections to birth control. If that root is an attachment to sexual sensations then this is a major obstacle to her spiritual work (regardless of what type of spiritual work she wishes to undertake) and therefore ought to be investigated.

Your sister-in-law probably knows most of these things already, but sometimes a reminder is in order. It is useful to remember that the root of the esoteric practices ought to be the scientific method and objective, vigilant perception, rather than the swallowing of ideas that we are fed by teachers and books.

Also, since I’m done saying what I had to say, I wanted to bring this up: You mentioned that you found many of the implications of Steiner’s teachings disturbing. I would personally be interested in knowing what those implications were and why you considered them to be disturbing, just to satisfy my own curiosity. However, since I recognize that enumerating them might be a substantial task for you, I certainly don’t want to demand an answer, but rather welcome and invite you to share them in more detail if you should feel so inclined.

Many blessings.
 
Daniel_Marsh said:
If the Christian theology is right then when she dies, she will go to Hell.
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I’ve read your post and you seem to know a lot of Bible passages. But there’s one you could read again.

“Stop judging others, that you may not be judged.” -Matther 7:1
 
Hello!

I have a question regarding Waldorf schools. I’ve just learned that for some reason the Waldorf system doesn’t harmonize with the Catholic faith. I’ve never heard of it before. Could anyone give me some explanation of the situation? I’ve read that it is somehow related to New Age, and occultism. I’m in fact a teacher and when I was at college we also discussed the Waldorf method, but I can’t remember any information about its links to any occult teachings. Probably because we observed it from a different perspective.

So, does anyone know how Waldorf and Catholic faith aren’t compatible? What are the occult and NA elements in the Waldorf system and to what extent do these questionable teachings manifest in practice in a Waldorf school?

Thank you for your answers in advance.
 
When I lived in Sacramento CA, I use to drive by the Waldorf School. There were several Friends involved with the school in the Meeting I attended. They never really spoke much about it other than to say that Friends disipline of seeking the Light Within and living out of the Divine Center assisted them in their esoteric practices.

I’ve spoken with a few Friends who have attended the Waldorf School and while it’s not my ‘cup of tea’, I find nothing particularly “disturbing”.🙂 It may be because of what White Tree stated…Friends and evidently the followers of Rudolf Steiner do not concern themselves too much with “other worldly or the world to come” concerns…it is this world we live in NOW that we are to make an impact on…we live NOW in that newness of Life out of the Light Within. The “next life” is…well…“the next life”, what we do in this world is where our tasks lie.

To me the addage of “being so heavenly minded we are no earthy good” has deep and profound meaning.
 
pemier said:
Hello!

I have a question regarding Waldorf schools. I’ve just learned that for some reason the Waldorf system doesn’t harmonize with the Catholic faith. I’ve never heard of it before. Could anyone give me some explanation of the situation? I’ve read that it is somehow related to New Age, and occultism. I’m in fact a teacher and when I was at college we also discussed the Waldorf method, but I can’t remember any information about its links to any occult teachings. Probably because we observed it from a different perspective.

So, does anyone know how Waldorf and Catholic faith aren’t compatible? What are the occult and NA elements in the Waldorf system and to what extent do these questionable teachings manifest in practice in a Waldorf school?

Thank you for your answers in advance.
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I don’t have an objection to the Waldorf school my nephews attended thru 12th grade. Actually, I think they got quite a good education and I didn’t notice obvious new age elements in what they were taught. Usually the classes are small and the same main teacher stays with the children from first to eighth grade. There is a healthy inclusion of art, crafts, music, literature and world mythologies, non competitive and team sports, a respect for the individual strengths of each student, and a spirit of ‘family’ among the students. There is a nurturing environment except in situations where there is incompatibility between the student and a particular teacher. They don’t formally teach reading until third grade because they feel the reincarnated soul is not fully settled in the body and ready for reading until that age. But this has no negative effect on the abilities and performance of the students. Those who were in my nephew’s classes seemed remarkably competent and self-confident.

There is no principal, per se, in the Waldorf schools. The administrator is one of the teachers who has finished with one group of students and has yet to take on another. The school is run jointly by the teachers who are very dedicated and have been very well trained in the Waldorf ideals and Steiner’s ideas and methods. These are my observations based on over 25 years of loose contact with the school through my brother’s family.My nephews are wonderful people but were raised with no Christian or Catholic influence except for myself and their grandparents who are deceased. They were not taught anthrposotphy; they are responsible secular humanists.

That said, Anthroposophy, the world view of Steiner, is not conventionally Christian. Steiner’s view of Jesus (actually he believes there were two of them since one body couldn’t hold the Christ spirit for over 30 years) is not that he is the eternal Son of the Father who became man to reconcile us to the Father. To him, the Christ is the turning point in the evolution of the human race.

Reading White Tree’s comments and following some of the links in this thread will show how Steiner’s philosophy is not compatible with Catholic beliefs. My sister-in-law began going to study groups on anthroposophy at the school many years ago and now totally accepts his view of reality. Since I believe that the Catholic view of reality is the objectively true one, this is upsetting to me because I worry that she has turned away from God. She is convinced that, after death, a person observes his whole life step by step, learns from it, and then is born again as an infant. Therefore, she doesn’t have to make a commitment to Christ or live in a certain way (although she and my brother still live by the values they were taught in Catholic schools).
 
Thank your for your responses.

Actually, for me it’s not an urgent issue, for my daughter is just 16 months old. But we often talk about where we want her to go to school. Where I live is a very small town in Hungary offering slender choice of good education. We’ve got an excellent Catholic nursery school, but the Catholic elementary school is rather weak. We’d like to find a better alternative. The state schools aren’t very good either. Basically, I’ve found the Waldorf method quite attractive so far, but now I’m confused. Now that I know about the underlying ideology to some extent, I fear that it might affect my daughter. Probably not directly, but in an indirect way. We are pledged to grow her up in a Catholic manner, so it might be dangerous to expose her to ideas contradicting the Catholic faith at a very young age.
However, I know that state schools are atheists, probably Waldorf is not more harmful than an average primary school. I really don’t know. Fortunately, we have a few years to consider, and hopefully we’ll have a better knowledge of the Waldorf system after a few-year observation.
 
justinthemartyr said:
Yes, it is amazing what we as humans sometimes do to justify our sinful behaviour(contraception). One way is to criticize that someone or something(the Church) to keep it at arms length and then find a lower replacement to fill the gap partially.
Click to expand...
I don’t believe the right way to be an outright refutation of Anthroposophy. Attack people and they get defensive. I have several people among my family and freinds who are into anthroposophy to varying degrees. Some of them are from Catholic backgrounds but sadly their knowledge of Catholicisim is poor and much of what they criticise in the Church is based on half truths or distortions. Sadly, once you get through to some of the more hardcore anthroposophists, those who teach or have really read most of Steiner’s writings, you find that there is an extremely aggressive anti-Catholic stance among them which they will hide from you at first but which will become apparent once the veil drops. A lot of this anti-Catholicism is not basd in fact but on distortions. Or that just because some Catholic once said something it need not be an official or even widely accepted teaching or point of view.

What I believe to be the best thing is to first of all focus on things that are right in anthroposophy. There is quite a lot if you care to look. But then take it from there and show that these things are also to be found in the Catholic Church, and are often better and broader in Catholicism. Also, not all anthroposophists are out of their heads. I have talked to some very decent ones and we found we had a lot in common. It is dangerous to emulate the hardcore incorrectibles by being as thick-headed as they are as they will only see you in the same way you see them, as incorrectible nutcases.

One problem with anthroposophy is that there is little or no official control of teachings. In the Catholic Church, if some nutcase of a priest goes too far and spouts things that are clear nonsense, the Vatican will at some point remove him from office or reign him in. You can buy a lot of books by anthroposophists that don’t have much to do with what Rudolf Steiner said and don’t necessarily represent anthroposophy but will pretend they do. Many of these are written by the die-hard incorrectible thick-skulls I mentioned above, but they’re not quite as intelliegnt as Rudolf Steiner was and their arguments are easier to deconstruct.

Rudolf Steiner sometimes belittles Christian teachings and tries to confuse and cloud things that are quite clear. For example he claims that the Yahweh of the Old Testament is not the same as the God of the New Testament, but just one of his angels. You can find countless references to the Angel Yahweh. This is an attempt to block off people’s view of God and his Will by introducing an intellectual distinction that doesn’t actually prove anything but is sufficient to give the reader the illusion of superior knowledge. Likewise he doesn’t acept that there is a single Evil One, but talks of what he calls Ahriman as a separate entity to Lucifer, and says that it is okay to seek help from Ahriman in certain situations. So once again we see a level of clouding of what should be an obvious no. I would ask your sister how she feels about these things and their implications.
 
For some further ideas on Anthroposophy you might also find it useful to consult C.S. Lewis. He studied the topic in depth and refuted various points while accepting that others did have merit. Unfortunately Lewis wasn’t Catholic but fairly mainstream Christian all the same and a lot of his arguments are broadly comatible with Catholicism.
 
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