Refuting Sola fide

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James 2:24
24 See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.

James 2:26
26 For just as a body without a spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.
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Galatians 5:6**
6 For in Christ Jesus, neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love.
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1 Corinthians 13:2**
2 And if I have the gift of prophecy and comprehend all mysteries and all knowledge; if I have all faith so as to move mountains but do not have love, I am nothing.

John 14:15
15 “If you love me, you will keep my commandments.
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Matthew 19:16-17**
16 Now someone approached him and said, “Teacher, what good must I do to gain eternal life?” 17 He answered him, “Why do you ask me about the good? There is only One who is good. If you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
 
bengal_fan said:
no protestant really believes in “faith alone”. they believe in grace alone by faith alone. God gives us His saving grace through our faith, that faith that allows us to receive His grace will produce works. the works don’t give us grace, the faith that produces works does.
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The problem there is that you are saying that your act of Faith is what allows God’s saving grace to enter in. However, you are THEREBY saying works come first, then grace.

In Truth, Faith is a gift from God. Therefore grace comes first, then Faith. You co-operate with the grace from God in order to proclaim your Faith. Likewise, Christians must OBEY the commandments of God, by co-operating with the Grace from God. Therefore, works are the ONLY signs, that a Christian is co-operating with God’s grace. Jesus Christ in the Gospels, makes it abundantly clear that we will be judged by our works. This is inarguable. It does not mean that we are SAVED by our works. But we will be JUDGED by our works. Unless of course you are also ready dispense with the last judgement also proclaimed in the Gospels.
 
Here is how a Catholic “gets saved”.
  1. Before he is a Catholic, he sees the Catholic Church, sees Jesus in its members and in its words and in its actions.
  2. He reads the Bible and sees that Jesus gave authority to his disciples to grant citizenship in His Kingdom, by baptizing them and teaching them.
  3. He sees the Catholic Church being and doing with authority what Jesus granted to his disciples.
  4. He wants to be a part of this Kingdom, to be a disciple
  5. He believes they can make him a disciple
  6. He goes up to a Catholic and asks, “Can I be one of you?”
  7. The Catholic says, “Come and see”
  8. He is given instruction in what the Church is, what will become of him in becoming Catholic, and what will be given to him.
  9. He says, “Yes, I want this, will you make me one of you”
  10. At a regular meeting of the Church (usually the evening before Easter) he comes to them and they Baptize him - he is now Saved, he is now a citizen of the Kingdom of God, he is now born from above (because when they baptized him they gave him the Holy Spirit).
  11. The Bishop confirms him, verifying for himself that this person wants to be a Catholic and confesses all that a Catholic confesses, and renounces all that a Catholic renounces, and then seals him in the Holy Spirit to be a witness to the Gospel of the Kingdom of God.
  12. So, faith alone, as granted by the Holy Spirit, brought him to Jesus, seeking to be saved.
  13. The Church “saved him” (Jesus “saved him”) by baptizing him, granting him new birth from above, granting him the Holy Spirit in fullness, granting him now Grace (infusing virtue in his soul, of Faith, Hope, Charity), to be a special person in the world, a person in the world but no longer of the world, with a special mission as a son of God in the midst of the peoples of the world. His mission is to be that special person and do the works of God in a world that does the works of men. If he were to do the works of the flesh rather than the will of God, those works are not justified, he is not justified in doing the works of men when he is that special son of God. Being special, he is fully justified in doing the special works God calls him to do in the midst of the world.
The Jews of Rome were telling the Gentile Catholics of Rome that they were not justified in calling themselves the people of God - “You don’t have the Law, you are not descended from Abraham, you do not have the prophets, you are not circumcised, you do not have the Jewish bloodline, etc.” Paul then tells the Gentile Catholics, “You are justified in considering yourselves the People of God, because you have taken us at our word which we delivered to you from Jesus, just as Abraham took God at his word. So go and do works of God in the world as his special people just as Abraham went and did what God requested as a special person and traveled a thousand miles to Hebron. You are justified in regarding yourselves as the People of God just as Abraham was. Don’t be afraid of those who compare you to the unrepentant Gentiles you once were. You have the obedience of faith that it is my duty to ensure among the Gentiles. You are justified in being this people.”

John Martin
(as to babies being baptized, that can also be easily explained and is in no way contradictory to what was said above)
 
EphelDuath said:
Even when I cite James 2:24 and Matthew 7:21, my Protestant friend shakes his head and points at Acts 16:31 and Romans 10:9. How do I explain to him that these verses do not imply faith alone is what saves you?
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oh, this shouldn’t break a sweat

what is said in acts 16 31 and romans 10 9?

what should someone do if they believe?

arent the baptised, christians?

what does acts tell you about the life of early church?
(hint: see 4:32-35)
 
There is a “hyper grace” movement, or “free grace theology” by some today, which is refuted by most credible Protestant leaders. Here’s an example of the damnable heresy, and a vid by a Protestant pastor that refutes this doctrine;

“This seems to indicate that you think the choices we make, how we talk and act and the lifestyle we choose is what makes us holy or not…I/we would strongly and completely disagree…we believe a believer is holy because God declares them holy…not because of anything they do…We view all true believers as Holy and Righteous and sinless spiritually regardless of how they live earthly…so yes, to take it to the extremes I believe Judas is in heaven and I believe one can be a homosexual believer or a porn-star believer or even a believer guilty of unrepentant murder…Its based on what we truley believe in our hearts alone…All that is required of us is faith alone and everything else that comes is from God alone…we believe that ALL sin past, present and future is already forgiven … We believe that those in hell put themselves there because of their failure to accept and believe in Jesus Christ…not because of their sin…They will be judged guilty for their sin as a byproduct of not believing…”

youtube.com/watch?v=yXYlYhIp3Jk
 
 
bengal_fan said:
no protestant really believes in “faith alone”. they believe in grace alone by faith alone. God gives us His saving grace through our faith, that faith that allows us to receive His grace will produce works. the works don’t give us grace, the faith that produces works does.
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God does not remove out free will. The decision to perform good works is still our decision of our will. They are NOT automatically flowing from faith.

As Jesus taught in the parable of the two brothers, one said “Yes”, and did not do what his father said, and one said “No”, but did what his father asked. Jesus said the second was following his father’s will.

And your theology supposes something that is glossed over but needs to be REALLY unpacked. It assumes that the person doesn’t change their mind and will, and refuses to obey God, and sins. That person rejects the New Covenant, after having true faith and performing works. So they have lost their salvation. It proves free will and our decision to perform the works of God are required for salvation and are not automatic.
 
mackbrislawn said:
Often “faith alone” seems to mean that the simple possession of faith is enough. That is the way it comes across anyway. “I believe” therefore I am saved. But that cannot be what you mean?

It seems you mean that because you have faith in Jesus as Lord, you do what He says. That is, you act upon your faith. A faith not acted upon is a dead faith. For example the woman who was bleeding acted upon her faith. Her faith was that “if only I can touch the hem of His garment, I will be healed.” So she did what her faith told her to do, power flowed from Jesus, and she was healed. Jesus said to her, “Your faith has saved you.” Now it was the power of Jesus that healed her, so how can Jesus Himself say it was her faith that did it? By a manner of speaking. If it weren’t for her strong faith, she wouldn’t have done the work necessary. So yes, her faith produced the works necessary.
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This simple example proves Faith Alone is false. The woman was NOT healed until she actually touched Jesus’ garment. She had the exact same faith all the way leading up to the moment she touched His garment, and yet, she was NOT healed untl she actually performed the action.
 
zz912 said:
This simple example proves Faith Alone is false. The woman was NOT healed until she actually touched Jesus’ garment. She had the exact same faith all the way leading up to the moment she touched His garment, and yet, she was NOT healed untl she actually performed the action.
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Not just that woman, literally every single person he healed had faith, but didnt get healed.
 
The Council of Trent declared,
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“For faith, unless hope and charity be added to it, neither unites man perfectly with Christ nor makes him a living member of His body. For which reason it is most truly said that faith without works is dead (James 2:17, 20) and of no profit, and in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth anything nor uncircumcision, but faith that worketh by charity. (Gal 5:6, 6:15)2
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If any one saith, that men are justified, either by the sole imputation of the justice of Christ, or by the sole remission of sins, to the exclusion of the grace and the charity which is poured forth in their hearts by the Holy Ghost, and is inherent in them; or even that the grace, whereby we are justified, is only the favour of God; let him be anathema.3
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see also the links

menofstjoseph.com/blog/?p=3373

catholicnick.blogspot.in/2009/12/protestantism-refuted-outline.html

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=907053

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=905795

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=903826

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=899845

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=896184

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=897669

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=881541

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=788988

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=889482

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=886078

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=880900
 
 
Jack007 said:
see also the links

menofstjoseph.com/blog/?p=3373

catholicnick.blogspot.in/2009/12/protestantism-refuted-outline.html

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=907053

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=905795

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=903826

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=899845

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=896184

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=897669

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=881541

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=788988

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=889482

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=886078

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=880900
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I did not mean this to be spam, but a read so that arguments in those threads will not be used here, thus making this thread refined, and also a warning that this thread will be closed if there is no charity in posts.
 
Protestants frequently make the argument and claim that the CC teaches works based salvation; yet, however, this is not true. Sola Fide is a doctrine that was invented by Martin Luther in the 16th century. Various Protestants apologists will argue and insist that this or that ECF actually taught it. yet, when evidence is examined, the Protestant doctrine was never taught before the 16th century.
Code: 
Works; that is what people actually do and how they live, the sola fide doctrine goes, plays no part in salvation at all. The Protestant caricature of CC teaching that works based salvation is incorrect. The CC teaching regarding salvation is that it is, first of all, a free gift from God, grace, no one can merit salvation by anything one does.

 The Council of Trent stated " We are said to be justified by grace because nothing that precedes justification, whether faith, works, merits the grace of justification. For if it by grace, it is no longer by works; otherwise, as the apostle says, grace is no more grace."  This does not mean, that good works do not play any role in salvation. Scripture demonstrates that faith and works are bound together in the mystery of salvation. After all, having faith itself is a work, the act of accepting truth revealed by God, which is faith, is an act of the will. its doing something.

  Regardless of how some sects regard Luther, its relevant since no one taught faith alone in the sense Luther meant it, until Luther, it was his new and novel t When one reads Matt. 25:31-56, it seems rather foolish to formulate a theology and doctrine from a single passage Roman's. According to Christ, works are certainly connected to salvation. But that does not mean that one is able to earn salvation, as it remains and will always remain a free gift from the grace of God. This means that one does not win one's salvation by faith either, suggesting and it seems almost asserting that one can manipulate God. The fact is God choose us.
Protestants often argue that a person has been saved by one’s faith, yet then act out this justification by preforming good works. While not entirely false, the fact remains that Scripture plainly state that good works are indeed related to salvation which CC teaching bears out while sola fide denies it.

The doctrine of sola fide is not Scriptural and is an invention of one man. Martin Luther, who tossed out the teachings of the Apostles and the CC because of his severe scrupulosity.
 
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