G
Gabster
Guest
Hey guys!
I am currently making a compilation of texts to explain and support the “Intersession of Saints”. In the process of writing it, I found myself in the need to also talk about the Catholic (and most Christian groups anyways) belief of the soul going straight to God at the moment of death (as opposed to the idea that it “sleeps or dies” until the resurrection of the dead.)
So far I compiled the insciptions in the graves of early christians the early 3rd century, the text of “The Dissension of the Arabians”, bible verses like: Hebrews 12:1 Revelations 6:9-10 Revelations 20:4 , The text “Stromata” by Clement of Alexandria, Chapter 7 verse 12, The Jewish 2 Maccabees (one of my favorite sources), Lazarus and the rich man, etc.
However maybe my favorite source seems to be St. Paul. I found this article in Encyclopedia Britannica, written by an author and professor of religion in Duke University. that states the following:
"In the End Time vision of Thessalonians 4, Paul indicates that he thinks that some people will die before the Lord returns but that many (who are alive, who are left) will not have died. In this passage he does not specify what will be raised, but the implication is corpses. As noted above, this belief was difficult for Paul’s pagan converts to accept, and Paul attempted to overcome their reluctance by emphasizing that the resurrection of the body would be changed into a “spiritual body” (Corinthians 15:42-54)
A second problem was the delay. Christ did not immediately return, and the idea that believers would have to remain in the ground until he came was troubling. Paul responded to this by stating that the transformation to a Christ-like spiritual body was already beginning (Corinthians 3:18) He also seems sometimes to have accepted the Greek view that the soul would be detached from the body at death and go immediately to be with the Lord. At death believers will be “away from the body and at home with the Lord” (Corinthians 5:8) He restated this view when imprisonment forced him to think that he himself might die before the lord returned (Philipians 1:21-24) <—my favorite bible quote on the subject, very hard to debate since Paul is being extremely clear.
Eventually Christianity would systemize these passages: the soul escapes at death and joins the Lord; when the Lord returns, bodies will be raised and reunited with souls."
I love the idea of how likely it seems that St. Paul believed in the human soul going straight to God separated from the body instead of it “sleeping” or being dead until the resurrection. Especially since groups that support the “soul sleep” concept are usually extremely pro Sola Scriptura. It’s hard to argue any “but where is that in the bible” kind of arguments really if the author of AT LEAST 13 BOOKS of the New Testament is against the idea.
So I really want to learn more about St. Paul’s take on the subject and if there are any more documents, letters, etc by Paul or talking about Paul that you know of that help prove that he was against Soul Sleep I would be extremely thankful to read them!
I am currently making a compilation of texts to explain and support the “Intersession of Saints”. In the process of writing it, I found myself in the need to also talk about the Catholic (and most Christian groups anyways) belief of the soul going straight to God at the moment of death (as opposed to the idea that it “sleeps or dies” until the resurrection of the dead.)
So far I compiled the insciptions in the graves of early christians the early 3rd century, the text of “The Dissension of the Arabians”, bible verses like: Hebrews 12:1 Revelations 6:9-10 Revelations 20:4 , The text “Stromata” by Clement of Alexandria, Chapter 7 verse 12, The Jewish 2 Maccabees (one of my favorite sources), Lazarus and the rich man, etc.
However maybe my favorite source seems to be St. Paul. I found this article in Encyclopedia Britannica, written by an author and professor of religion in Duke University. that states the following:
"In the End Time vision of Thessalonians 4, Paul indicates that he thinks that some people will die before the Lord returns but that many (who are alive, who are left) will not have died. In this passage he does not specify what will be raised, but the implication is corpses. As noted above, this belief was difficult for Paul’s pagan converts to accept, and Paul attempted to overcome their reluctance by emphasizing that the resurrection of the body would be changed into a “spiritual body” (Corinthians 15:42-54)
A second problem was the delay. Christ did not immediately return, and the idea that believers would have to remain in the ground until he came was troubling. Paul responded to this by stating that the transformation to a Christ-like spiritual body was already beginning (Corinthians 3:18) He also seems sometimes to have accepted the Greek view that the soul would be detached from the body at death and go immediately to be with the Lord. At death believers will be “away from the body and at home with the Lord” (Corinthians 5:8) He restated this view when imprisonment forced him to think that he himself might die before the lord returned (Philipians 1:21-24) <—my favorite bible quote on the subject, very hard to debate since Paul is being extremely clear.
Eventually Christianity would systemize these passages: the soul escapes at death and joins the Lord; when the Lord returns, bodies will be raised and reunited with souls."
I love the idea of how likely it seems that St. Paul believed in the human soul going straight to God separated from the body instead of it “sleeping” or being dead until the resurrection. Especially since groups that support the “soul sleep” concept are usually extremely pro Sola Scriptura. It’s hard to argue any “but where is that in the bible” kind of arguments really if the author of AT LEAST 13 BOOKS of the New Testament is against the idea.
So I really want to learn more about St. Paul’s take on the subject and if there are any more documents, letters, etc by Paul or talking about Paul that you know of that help prove that he was against Soul Sleep I would be extremely thankful to read them!
