Refuting the Rapture or "Left Behind" Theory

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The bridegroom coming to steal his bride at an hour she knows not is alot scriptural than anything you just posted.

Too bad you see this as "dull’. 🤷
Hey,now…!!!

Im not sure but I think Ive just been rebuked!

You wanna be nitpicky?(this is fun:thumbsup: )
Then maybe what you’re trying to say is it’s the MOST scriptural thing I’ve said…😛 so,there…
:knight2:
 
One of the passages cited by rapture believers is Matthew 24:37-41

However, they get it mixed up between which type of people were taken and which were left by the flood.

In the pro-rapture theology, it is the unsaved people who are left behind, but if you look at how Jesus relates the story, the people left behind after the flood are the righteous.

You will have to go through this passage very slowly and carefully with them, but it’s worth the effort. Take time to flip back to the OT with Noah before continuing with the gospel passage.

The Holy Spirit will work wonders with the smallest seed you plant in their minds.
Go back slowly and read it again. People ate and were merry, etc., and then the tribulation(flood) came and swept them away while the 144,000 of Gods chosen of Israel(Noah) ride out the tribulation. We both know both saved and unsaved die throughout the tribulation. Its at the end of the tribulation when the nations are gathered at the sheep and goats judgement(Matt25:31-46) happens to those who are alive. And if you use your noggin, there are 3 types of people at that judgement, Jesus’ brethern , the sheep who cared for his brethern, and the goats, who did not. Compare this the prophecy when the nations are judged in **Joel 3-

"In those days and at that time,
when I restore the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem,
I will gather all nations
and bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat.
There I will enter into judgment against them
concerning my inheritance, my people Israel,
for they scattered my people among the nations
and divided up my land.

They cast lots for my people
and traded boys for prostitutes;
they sold girls for wine
that they might drink. **

Looks like Israel is still in the prophetic picture and not some watered down-“God will save a few Jews at the end times.”

So then there is the 1000 year kingdom on earth with Jesus ruling from his throne in Jerusalem. Plenty of OT scripture explaining this one. Then in Revelation it is explained what happens at the end of the 1000 year Kingdom reign of Jesus on this earth.

But where is the part where he comes for his bride to marry her? The Church knows he comes for her at an hour she knows not. This is an clear promise to God that there will be an event where he secretly comes for his bride and takes her away to be married.
This rapture event is foretold all over scripture, at the same time, another event of how the hard hearts of Israel will be broken when Messiah comes for her is also told.

It is obvious the rapture is for the remnant of Israel(Church) and the second coming is for the full and final restoration of Israel, like Josephs brothers who sold him into slavery, they will finally see their Messiah, who is Jesus.

Here is an early reference to the bridegroom coming for the bride-
**Song of Solomon 2:8-13
Listen! My lover!
Look! Here he comes,
leaping across the mountains,
bounding over the hills.

My lover is like a gazelle or a young stag.
Look! There he stands behind our wall,
gazing through the windows,
peering through the lattice.

My lover spoke and said to me,
"Arise, my darling,
my beautiful one, and come with me.

See! The winter is past;
the rains are over and gone.

Flowers appear on the earth;
the season of singing has come,
the cooing of doves
is heard in our land.

The fig tree forms its early fruit;
the blossoming vines spread their fragrance.
Arise, come, my darling;
my beautiful one, come with me."**
 
  1. I agree. Didn’t Pope Benedict XVI say something about ‘quit using Revelations as a ou*ja board to predict the future’ or something like that?
  2. Why can’t these rapture fundamentalist nuts (when they’re so capable of memorizing so many ripped out verses to back up their offensive bigotry) keep this verse in their heads?*1. Did he really say that?
His Holiness realizes, of course, as should anyone familiar with Bible history, that Revelation was written for the Christians of the writer’s own time, and one assumes that all of the symbolism therein was understood by them, though much of it is obscure today.
  1. That’s the point. One hates to see good Catholics get sucked into the lunatic fringe vortex along with the Fundie Protestants.
 
The bridegroom coming to steal his bride at an hour she knows not is alot scriptural than anything you just posted.

Too bad you see this as "dull’. 🤷
Well excuse me but at least I can come up with a far more exciting apocalyptic scenario than let’s say this pro-rapture tract? :rolleyes:

Honestly, what happened in Fatima was way more exciting than this ‘every-single-Bible-believing-Christian-would-disappear’ device. Isn’t it only logical to assume that if the world were really to end, it’s always with a bang? Well a bang this hardly is. sigh

Like what beeliner said, Revelations makes use of the most extreme form of symbolism and has become very obscure for today’s Christians. If I might add, the symbols have already been alleged to represent an insane amount of things in this world. How can you call your guess scriptural when basically anybody can just read it and try to tie it up to some random historical event that just happened to be similar to an understanding of an event they read in Revelations?

And out of all the ideas these fundamentalists could have had about what would happen in the end times, it’s this? Just a simple vanishing of individuals? No Armageddon? No Four Horsemen?

I mean seriously, give me hordes of demons attacking earth. Give me meteors falling outta the sky. Heck I’d rather be fighting Satan’s minions with some fancy holy weapon than just get swept off like nothing happened. :rolleyes:
 
I mean seriously, give me hordes of demons attacking earth. Give me meteors falling outta the sky. Heck I’d rather be fighting Satan’s minions with some fancy holy weapon than just get swept off like nothing happened. :rolleyes:
You forgot to mention drinking ale out of a leather mug, and all of this while the theme music from the movie Flash Gordon is playing in the background as meteors are falling. 😉
 
Go back slowly and read it again. People ate and were merry, etc., and then the tribulation(flood) came and swept them away while the 144,000 of Gods chosen of Israel(Noah) ride out the tribulation.
Maybe I’m missing something in this, but isn’t what I said and what you said right here the same thing?

The flood/tribulation came and took people away. The ones left behind were God’s chosen.

But in the “Left Behind” rapture theology, aren’t the people left behind the unfortunate ones? If you believe in “The Rapture (c)” it’s not good to be left behind, right?
 
You forgot to mention drinking ale out of a leather mug, and all of this while the theme music from the movie Flash Gordon is playing in the background as meteors are falling. 😉
Hmm, sorry if the scene is casual like that I’m more likely to be drinking rum with the music “Jack Sparrow” playing in me head whilst I steer my legendary ship through the accursed unnatural fog. :cool:
 
As a “soon-to-be” Catholic I desire knowing what the Catholic Church teaches so that I can live my faith now instead of just waiting… Although I know I will never fully know the entire teaching by heart but can continually find out more of what She teaches…

I know the Church is Amillenialist (against millenialism) and that we believe the Second Coming is correlated with the Final Judgment.

I have a roommate that constantly enjoys bringing up his views on how the Left Behind books are right although fictional in setting and bombards me with his beliefs about the Rapture.

I continually tell him the Rapture happens with the Second Coming… not as a pre-SC event. And that we do not believe in a literal 7-year “Tribulation” period nor a literal 1,000-year reign of Christ.

With Scripture and Church Teachings, how can I refute this issue?
I am curious if lack of “belief” in a certain rapturist’s theology or maybe a slightly different belief automatically excludes me from a rapture if that particular rapture were to actually occur.
 
Y’know…
I had a friend of mine (who calls himself a ‘confirmed born again pagan’;and,yes,he is my friend;and no he doesn,t have a computer or else he’d be here online with us)who told me a few weeks ago,
“I sure hope that rapture thing is true so i can get you idiots off my planet!”
I told him i was a catholic and so i didn’t believe in it.
He told me,“I wish you did!”

We both actually laughed.He’s a very responsible law abiding guy.But if I could I would use him for firewood.

You’d have to know him.He’s ok with it.
😊
 
Y’know…
I had a friend of mine (who calls himself a ‘confirmed born again pagan’;and,yes,he is my friend;and no he doesn,t have a computer or else he’d be here online with us)who told me a few weeks ago,
"I sure hope that rapture thing is true so i can get you idiots off my planet!"
I told him i was a catholic and so i didn’t believe in it.
He told me,"I wish you did!"


We both actually laughed.He’s a very responsible law abiding guy.But if I could I would use him for firewood.

You’d have to know him.He’s ok with it.
😊
LOL… that’s really hilarious…

That’s one thing I like about the Catholic Church… we have respect for others instead of being like the Protestants and damning everyone to Hell… 🤷
 
Typical workaround of not including Israel’s full restoration at Messiah’s(Jesus) 2nd coming. It is so easy to refute the rapture when Israel is left out of its own prophecy.
Thank you for this well-mannered and fact-filled response. As I clearly said, mine was an extremely bare-bones sketch. If you want to be able to respond to this in an informed manner, you need to reference the resources I provided, many of which DO extensively discuss the place of Israel in the last days based on both the Old and New Testaments. For example David Currie’s book “Rapture.”

If after doing so, you still cling to your unbiblical, unhistorical, vain pet theories about the Last Things, you are more than welcome to your erroneous and uninformed opinions.🙂
 
LOL… that’s really hilarious…

That’s one thing I like about the Catholic Church… we have respect for others instead of being like the Protestants and damning everyone to Hell… 🤷
:rotfl:
Now,now…
I just got secretly reprimanded on a different thread for calling someone a blasphemer!!!
and,honestly,I do feel bad about it.

it’s just that…
well…
I never felt there was any room for political correctness in Christianity.However,wars have been fought over these very same issues!

I guess this is one of the things Jesus was talking about when he said pray for those…
 
For a detailed explanation of what millenialists believe (there are varieties among them) see Will Catholics be Left Behind? by Carl Olson. He’s a convert to Catholicism. I saw him on The Journey Home.
amazon.com/Will-Catholics-Left-Behind-Apologetics/dp/0898709504

The last part of the book deals with the Catholic view. It’s much shorter than the first part. Also good is The Rapture Trap: A Catholic Response to “End Times” Fever by Paul Thigpen.
amazon.com/gp/reader/0965922820/ref=sib_dp_pt#reader-link

Olson (and others) explain that millenialists actually believe in a 3rd coming, which of course, is not scriptural. But this is what happens when you stop believing in the Church (along with the Magisterial teaching authority). I pray they will see the error of this relativly new teaching and make the Journey Home!

Mimi
 
It WOULD be pretty cool to go straight to heaven without dying,though.
But,even Jesus had to die.
there’s a mystery to it…
 
Thank you for this well-mannered and fact-filled response. As I clearly said, mine was an extremely bare-bones sketch. If you want to be able to respond to this in an informed manner, you need to reference the resources I provided, many of which DO extensively discuss the place of Israel in the last days based on both the Old and New Testaments. For example David Currie’s book “Rapture.”
Your welcome. 😉

Since the resources you provide that debunk the rapture DO discuss the place of Israel “extensively” in the last days, maybe you should include a hint of information about such in your bare-bones sketch.
If after doing so, you still cling to your unbiblical, unhistorical, vain pet theories about the Last Things, you are more than welcome to your erroneous and uninformed opinions.🙂
Again, the event of the bridegroom coming back for the bride(remnant of Israel/Church) at an hour she knows not—and—the Messiah(Jesus) revealing himself to his brethern(Israel) who sold him into slavery, like what happened to Joseph and his brothers are both scriptural.

The Church(Jew and Gentile-dead and alive) gets the rapture, Israel(those alive) gets the 2nd coming.
 
For a detailed explanation of what millenialists believe (there are varieties among them)
There are varieties among everyone. I am not commenting on Spauline’s views(sacred scripture forum), but his Catholic look on the end times is very different than most Catholics. I mean, there is one here right on this thread that wants meteors falling and to wield holy weapons!
Olson (and others) explain that millenialists actually believe in a 3rd coming, which of course, is not scriptural. But this is what happens when you stop believing in the Church (along with the Magisterial teaching authority). I pray they will see the error of this relativly new teaching and make the Journey Home!

Mimi
Again, if Olsen and others need to understand the the 2 comings was and is to Israel, ultimately the 2nd coming of Jesus will also cease Satans reign here on the entire earth. This “2nd” coming to Israel is written about in the OT as well as the NT.

When the Lord comes for his Church, he does not meet them in Israel, or anywhere else on this earth, but “up in the air”.
 
There are varieties among everyone. I am not commenting on Spauline’s views(sacred scripture forum), but his Catholic look on the end times is very different than most Catholics. I mean, there is one here right on this thread that wants meteors falling and to wield holy weapons!
That’s because this whole Rapture idea as it is commonly known only became mainstream during the golden age of fundamentalism and has traces of every single uncreative imagination found in their doctrine. I’m simply stating that the idea is just too crude and simple to fit your typical apocalyptic event.

I mean what was the deal with the Four Horsemen, with the raining of red stones, the breaking of seals, Battle of Armageddon, all that chaos? :confused:

Were they just for literary entertainment while all that really happens at the end is this rapture? :rolleyes:

Get my point now?
 
I dunno. Will it take place instantly or over a period of days or weeks? Will FOX News coverage be slanted?
“Will FOX News cover be slanted?” Rofl rofl rofl!!! This cracked me up. Thank you for an amazing laugh. =D
 
Interesting. Since the earth is spherical, any idea how he plans to pull that off?
Ask Him!

But okay, here is another question in the same vein–of all the millions of Christians who will want to see Jesus, will we have to wait in line 10,000 years to see Him?
 
Ask Him!

But okay, here is another question in the same vein–of all the millions of Christians who will want to see Jesus, will we have to wait in line 10,000 years to see Him?
“Come one! Come all! See the Son of God with own eyes! Just go in this line here, and He’ll see you one at a time…” 😛
 
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