Regarding abuse and responsibility

[scylla]

In another thread I said this
“At my Church I assist the Priest and I pour the Precious Blood as he breaks the Eucharist. This is wrong and yet if someone asks why I do it I will tell them. I do it out of obedience to my Bishop”

I think that’s extremely poor form. You know it’s wrong. You lament to others here and in person that it is wrong, yet you still facilitate what is a true liturgical abuse.

Yes I am sure there are a plethora of available excuses – I am called to this ministry and this is part of it; My bishop demands it so it’s not really an abuse; I was asked by my pastor; no one else would do it; if I didn’t do it someone with less skill would, etc. etc. but it doesn’t make it any less abusive.

This forum is remarkable. On the one hand people proudly proclaim they will never receive Holy Communion from an EMHC or even in some cases, from a deacon. That act will do absolutely nothing to help the shortage of priests. Nothing.

Yet if some of the very same people tactfully yet resolutely refused to pour the Precious Blood (even if that meant not being an EMHC, altar server, etc.) it might well make the right impression on the celebrant and ultimately his bishop.

Even as a deacon I would (in private away from the Mass) very humbly communicate to the celebrant that I could not be a part of pouring the Precious Blood in defiance of the Church. If it was done with enough humility and with God’s Grace that too could make a positive impression not only on the celebrant but on his bishop should he be informed of the situation.

Extremely tactful and prayerful communication away from the Mass would be the key, along with the courage to quietly step back from the liturgical ministry should that become necessary.

I took this out of the other thread because this interests me. If you indeed prove your point I will change my actions and follow your advice as it seems like a pretty good criticism of my actions.

Yet I am torn as abuse is much more profound than just the pouring. We have liturgical dancing, woman washing feet, you name it we have seen it.

I am hesitant to follow your advice because it can be counterproductive as I am in a very small minority in my parish and I wish to be faithful and spread faithfulness as anti-clericalism and antiquarianism is rampant in my diocese.

I have to be faithful to my Bishop yet he commands us to pour, and commit other abuses. I would rather be faithful and keep complaining, than not participate and just be brushed off as someone who doesn’t want to help or just a whiner.

What is the best course of action? I do not enjoy serving at the altar, I just do so because I can teach others to serve with reverence and hopefully help some boys seek to be priests someday.

I am fairly new to the parish and I would like to grow in influence to promote faithfulness and a focus on Christ.

God Bless
Scylla

 

[John_Lilburne]

When did the bishop say to pour the Precious Blood? It was the correct for a priest or deacon to do this, in the USA, between 2002 and March 2004.

In the 2004 Instruction Redemptionis Sacramentum it has:
“[106.] However, the pouring of the Blood of Christ after the consecration from one vessel to another is completely to be avoided, lest anything should happen that would be to the detriment of so great a mystery.”

This Instruction has at the end:
“This Instruction, prepared by the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments by mandate of the Supreme Pontiff John Paul II in collaboration with the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, was approved by the same Pontiff on the Solemnity of St. Joseph, 19 March 2004, and he ordered it to be published and to be observed immediately by all concerned.
From the offices of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, Rome, on the Solemnity of the Annunciation of the Lord, 25 March 2004.”

On 22 March 2002 the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments gave approval for “Norms for the Distribution and Reception of Holy Communion under Both Kinds in the Dioceses of the United States of America”. These norms were to be inserted in the U.S.A. translation of the Roman Missal, “All things to the contrary notwithstanding.”

These norms included:

"At the Breaking of the Bread

"37. As the Agnus Dei or Lamb of God is begun, the bishop or priest alone, or with the assistance of the deacon, and if necessary of concelebrating priests, breaks the eucharistic bread.

“Other empty chalices and ciboria or patens are then brought to the altar is this is necessary. The deacon or priest places the consecrated bread in several ciboria or patens and, if necessary, pours the Precious Blood into enough additional chalices as are required for the distribution of Holy Communion. If it is not possible to accomplish this distribution in a reasonable time, the celebrant may call upon the assistance of other deacons or concelebrating priests. This action is usually carried out at the altar, so that the sharing of all from the one cup is signified; in the case of large assemblies, it may be done at the side table within the sanctuary (presbyterium).”

The clear intention was to have the wine consecrated in one chalice and then distributed into other chalices. I wrote more about this at romanrite.com/instruction.html .

 

[scylla]

There is a note in our instructions for serving that admits that the permission has expired.

Essentially it says this…
The indult has expired yet since this is our custom we will continue to do this. Another request for indult will be submitted.

It’s crazy, but I have a copy of this paper at home. Even after asking about it, no one seemed to care, it is so weird.

Permission ran out, we continue to do it and are asking permission to do still do it but we ignore not having permission?
Am I taking crazy pills? Am I the only one who thinks this is nuts?

Why does it seem no one really cares in my parish or diocese?

So I try an keep my mouth shut since everyone just thinks I am overly strict or intolerant when I make too much noise. So what is the proper response? I have to be obedient to my Bishop and to give the proper respect to his authority.

God Bless
Scylla

 

[benedictgal]

There is a note in our instructions for serving that admits that the permission has expired.

Essentially it says this…
The indult has expired yet since this is our custom we will continue to do this. Another request for indult will be submitted.

It’s crazy, but I have a copy of this paper at home. Even after asking about it, no one seemed to care, it is so weird.

Permission ran out, we continue to do it and are asking permission to do still do it but we ignore not having permission?
Am I taking crazy pills? Am I the only one who thinks this is nuts?

Why does it seem no one really cares in my parish or diocese?

So I try an keep my mouth shut since everyone just thinks I am overly strict or intolerant when I make too much noise. So what is the proper response? I have to be obedient to my Bishop and to give the proper respect to his authority.

God Bless
Scylla

No, you aren’t weird. In fact, I’ve been where you are and it’s not a very pleasant experience. In fact, it’s very disconcerting. We must be obedient to the norms and dictates issued from the Holy See. There are no buts about it.

I believe that if we know what the norms are, we are obligated to obey them and cannot, in good conscience, follow practices that deviate from that. We cannot participate in something that goes against what the Holy See mandates.

I would write to my bishop and tell him that in good conscience, you cannot abide by a practice that runs contrary to Rome. Include the references that John quoted and whatever else you may find in Redemptionis Sacramentum that helps your cause. It is also best to refrain from emotion, at this point. Just remain factual and let the documents do your talking. It’s not that you are being a “trouble-maker.” You do have an obligation to remind the bishop that as the Chief liturgical steward of his diocese, it is his responsibility to ensure that the norms and rubrics are followed and that he cannot deviate from what the Holy See has mandated. You certainly have the right under Redemptionis Sacramentum.

If your bishop refuses to listen to your concerns, then you have the obligation to write to the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments and inform them of the situation in your diocese. You also have that right under Redemptionis Sacramentum. You just need to show them that you have made an earnest effort to contact your bishop. I might add that when writing to your bishop, you should send your correspondence via certificed mail, returned receipt requested. The little green card you receive in the mail is your proof that the document was received at the Chancery.

 

[grandfather]

There is a note in our instructions for serving that admits that the permission has expired.

Essentially it says this…
The indult has expired yet since this is our custom we will continue to do this. Another request for indult will be submitted.

It’s crazy, but I have a copy of this paper at home. Even after asking about it, no one seemed to care, it is so weird.

Permission ran out, we continue to do it and are asking permission to do still do it but we ignore not having permission?
Am I taking crazy pills? Am I the only one who thinks this is nuts?

Why does it seem no one really cares in my parish or diocese?

So I try an keep my mouth shut since everyone just thinks I am overly strict or intolerant when I make too much noise. So what is the proper response? I have to be obedient to my Bishop and to give the proper respect to his authority.

God Bless
Scylla

It sounds like you are serving at the altar as a lay person, and extraordinary minister. You are under no obligation, if this is the case, to do this. It is voluntary. If you are uncomfortable participating in abuse all you need to do is let your priest no that you do not wish to be involved on the altar and go find a pew. You are not disobeying your bishop in sitting in the pew. He is disobeying Rome. Your bishop and priest are insisting on continuing liturgical abuse and you are collaborating with them. No one is holding a gun to your head. Your bishop can not force anyone to be on the altar even if there were no abuse.