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Sister_Amy
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So nice of you to just speculate, and superimpose your own biases and prejudices on the story. I expected more from you.
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inJESUS
Guest
am not speculating Amy…if Zaid was like a son, and he was by all means , then his wife must be “the wife of my son”,and hence like a daughter . What am saying is by no means a speculation or far fetched since the same applies to a man with a biological son. A man who is able to even think sexually about his son’s wife is a pervert Amy. Not being a biological son is not any different.
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morning_star777
Guest
Go to church and become christian againJust become Muslim!
.Because Christ is THE WAY.
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Sister_Amy
Guest
When you say that Zaid was “like a son” you’re speculating. And you also have no proof that Muhammad ever thought about Zaynab sexually while she was married to Zaid–the best proof offered on that account was a report in At-Tabari that hasn’t been authenticated.
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Sister_Amy
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Jesus Christ, (may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him,) the son of Mary, was no more than a Messenger of Allah, and His word which He directed to Mary, and a soul created at a command from Him.Go to church and become christian again
So believe in Allah, and His Messengers! And do not say “Trinity.” Desist–it is better for you.
Indeed, Allah is but one God. Exalted is He above having a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. And sufficient is Allah as Disposer of affairs.
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Eden
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This is really sad to see a Christian led so far astray by the lies of Muhammad.
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morning_star777
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He(Jesus)is son of God.true God from true God,true light from true light.
.May Jord Jesus,God the Holy SON show you"THE WAY".
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inJESUS
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inJESUS
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Sister_Amy
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Why Adam and Eve without “biological” parents?
Exalted is He above having a son. Allah Almighty is Al-Hakeem.
Wisdom, in the Biblical tradition, is actually feminine. A son therefore cannot be equivalent to Wisdom. Is this some gnostic interpretation of yours?
Actually Christians do, or haven’t you figured that out yet?
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adstrinity
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Am I understanding the purpose of this thread to point out that Mohammad is the Old School version of Joseph Smith?
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planten
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**If your God can have a son, he can have a father too. So does your God have a father?He(Jesus)is son of God.true God from true God,true light from true light.
Muhammad married the divorced wife of Zaid because Zaid was not the real son of Muhammad. he was only an adopted son. Adopted son is not really any ones son. That should be understood for good and for ever. That is what Muhammad wanted to convey to the world that adopted son is not a son. Just in case, in future some one may contest the matter. Muhammad guided the mankind in that matter for ever.
There was also a serious need to bury the matter of Jesus being any son of God. How could Jesus be a son? In what way? Was he adopted by God? In what way would Jesus be a son of God? There is no way and it is a case further away from the case of Zaid being the son of Muhammad. It is a much weaker case of a son and a father. Jesus was not even adopted by God.
This was another important reason that Muhammad married the divorced wife of a supposed son. Do not forget that Muhammad has no special liking (desire) for Zainab. Muhammad had married her to Zaid himself. So how could he be wishing or liking or loving that honorable lady.
The christians should not please work too much on this subject and do not use too much Hadith in this matter. There is no need to discuss that Zaid was the spiritual or real son by word of mouth. Just consider and discuss whether Jesus could be the son of God in any way at all. That is a more important matter.**
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Angelos
Guest
Typical introduction from dear planten, who is the master of digression and impertinence.
The adopted son has the same legal rights as a biological son. Your Mohammad declared his wives ummulmuminiyn (mothers of the believers) and forbade Muslims from eternally marrying them. Why did he do such a thing? Why did he establish a bondage of spiritual motherhood between his wives and Muslim men if only biological relations mattered???
Jesus was not adopted by God! He is eternally the Son of God in the sense that He is the second divine person of the Trinity as the uncreated Word, which is the Wisdom of God. You are going back to the zone of nonsense while your faith is at stake.
I think and definitely believe that Mohammad had a special liking for Zainab. He had given Zainab to Zaid because he had primarily wanted to make Zaid happy as his adopted son. However, he eventually could not resist the feeling as his desire overrode Zaid’s.
Jesus IS the Son of God, dear planten. You should just read the New Testament to find answers to your questions. As for discussing Zaid and Zainab, we shall never ask for your significant permission. Do not worry
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inJESUS
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Eden
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You’re really not “getting” the idea of the Trinity. The Father is not literally a Father and the Son is not literally a Son. This might help you:
Part 1
youtube.com/watch?v=G79MhKOOlFw
Part 2
He specifically discusses the Father and Son around 6 minutes in:
youtube.com/watch?v=n2TWfPvsNkA&feature=related
Part 3
youtube.com/watch?v=kxOK6CibbgQ
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inJESUS
Guest
Joseph Smith of Arabia.
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Irene72
Guest
Is this true? Did he really say this? Is this dependable?That is correct, but why you didn’t continue the story till Muhammed himself said that Zaid is his son in front of many people !!!
“and because Zaid said that, Muhammed was so happy by Zaid decision, therefore, Muhammed went out to Kabba in front of Qurish tribe, and shouted "to all who came, Zaid is my son he inherits me and I inherit him”, here is the Arabic verse for that:
" يا من حضر، اشهدوا أن زيدًا ابني يرثني وأرثه""
Source1:
ar.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D8%B2%D9%8A%D8%AF_%D8%A8%D9%86_%D8%AD%D8%A7%D8%B1%D8%AB%D8%A9
Source2:
islam.aljayyash.net/encyclopedia/book-9-11
Source3:
masrawy.com/islameyat/sahaba/sahaba/Zaied_ben_haretha.aspx
Amy?
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planten
Guest
Part 1, is saying that Trinity can be explained only to the learned capable persons.
Part 2, is proving from the bibe NT that bible and Jesus believed in One God.
Part 3, Padre Zakariyah is accusing the Muslims of not listening to him. That is not the good way. Even before he started explaining Trinity, he is accusing that Muslims close their ears when lecture is being given on Trinity. Zakariya has used the Quran to prove Trinity. That was not fair.
We from Quran, understand many things about Jesus and bible and what Jesus said. We do not believe that God had sex with Mary. Not at all.
The priest has given example of some pagans who believed in some kind of Trinity. That goes against his arguments. The Priest also says that father and son is not literal. It is only metaphorical. So the son and father is all symbolic. We Muslims do not mind if it is only symbolic.
In part 1 & 2, The priest has spent a lot of time in proving that christians believe in One God only. That is for some good reason. It was better if the christians had stopped at that. But with One God, they have the Trinity or a triune God. There is a father and a son and a holy spirit. Priest had given an example of a family where there is a father, the creator of family etc. But that example does not fit because that is procreation by mating.
Altogether, it was a funny mixture of ideas. There was not much stress on the Trinity which is the controversial issue. We Muslims understand God to be spiritual. He does not need another Spirit. I feel that Zakariya has admitted that Jesus is not the real (literal) son of God. So there is no problem. All is well. Thanks.
Another thing. In mathew ch.28, if Jesus said to disciples “Go and preach (baptise) in the name of Father, the son andholy ghost…” it does not mean that the son and holy ghost are gods. First of all, this statement of Jesus was in contradiction to all his earlier teachings, that was to preach to the Jews only. Anyhow, if he said it , well and good. It does not make him a god.
This Trinity is such a serious matter that it is resting on the single letter “s”. Can you believe it? The matter about Trinity is being proved by a single letter “s”. They say that Jesus said “Go and preach in the name of father…”, He did not say in the names of father and son… What a strong ground for Trinity.
We Muslims believe in the father (The One God) and Jesus (The prophet) and holy spirit (The arch angel Gabriel). We believe in all three. Yet we do not consider Jesus as God and we do not consider holy spirit as a god. They are all creatures created by God. So they cannot be a god. Thanks but you will be tired after reading my lecture.
I listened to the three videos. Thanks for presenting. Thanks to Eden.
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adstrinity
Guest
We Catholics don’t believe God had sex with Mary, either. God, who can do anything, sent the Holy Spirit to Mary after Mary said yes to accept being the Mother of God. All of the Trinity was involved in Mary’s bringing Jesus into this world.
Jesus is eternally God, His Father is eternally God our Father, and the Holy Spirit is eternally God as well, not an angel.
I felt I needed to clarify. Mohammad is to His 9 Year old Wife is not like God is to Mary. Sex did not produce the Child in the later.
Jesus is eternally God, His Father is eternally God our Father, and the Holy Spirit is eternally God as well, not an angel.
I felt I needed to clarify. Mohammad is to His 9 Year old Wife is not like God is to Mary. Sex did not produce the Child in the later.
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Angelos
Guest
Baptising is giving the sacrament of grace and salvation. If the Son and Holy Spirit were not God, Jesus would never have included the Son and the Spirit into this formula. Jesus’ deliberate choice of words for this baptismal formula indicates that He considers the Son and Spirit equal to the Father.
As for the contradiction, I have answered you and rebutted your claims hundreds of times now. This is why I can do nothing else but agree with padre Zakariyah, who accuses Muslims of closing their ears with prejudice and deliberate ignorance. Jesus was sent to the Jews alone since Israel was the chosen of God. However, His Gospel is universal since His death saved all believing in His name. Although Jesus accomplished His prophetic mission in Israel as a Jew born under the Law, He became the Savior of every one believing in Him.
Besides, your book claims that Mohammad was sent to the whole world despite the fact that Mohammad never preached his religion out of Arabia! Thus, the allegation of your scripture is historically proven untrue.
You are making up stories and theories only to debunk them later. The strength of the ground of the Trinity is provided not only with a single letter, but also with the sense and linguistic environment of the key word NAME in that sentence. If you read closely, you will hopefully see that the Son and Holy Spirit are of the same substance as the Father, whose ONE and SAME NAME they eternally possess.
dear planten, u still have lots of things to learn.
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