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Sam_777
Guest
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(Quran 05:101)
“O ye who believe! ask not questions about things which, if made plain to you, may cause you trouble. But if ye ask about things when the Qur-an is being revealed, they will be made plain to you, Allah will forgive those: for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Forbearing.”
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inJESUS
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yep 
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Jimdandy
Guest
I do not know why a man would marry a little girl. I do not know why a holy person would marry a little girl and have sexual relations with her when she is still a little girl or why someone holy would marry a girl who had been married to his son
I do know that we worship the same God
God is our Creator
He created Adam out of nothing and gave Him life by His Spirit
God then created Eve from Adam
Adam and Eve distrusted God, and brought sin and death into the world, and lost the indwelling Spirit.
Jesus was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary-who was conceived without sin.
Jesus is the second Adam and the first perfect human because He is the only begotten Son of God.
Mary is the new Eve, the Ark of the new and everlasting covenant
With the Grace of God, His Holy Spirit, Mary was able to chose to avoid mortal sin for her entire life
As the new Adam, Jesus is born with the indwelling Spirit of God, restoring what man had lost. His death and Resurrection restored the original plan of God-that man would have the capacity to live completely united to Him
I do know that we worship the same God.
I cannot be angry with or bitter towards someone who has not been given the gift of Faith from God,
But I can pray for deeper spiritual understanding for all of us.
The most wonderful fact is that we can all know God, here and now-if we but ask Him to reveal Himself to us
If one repents their sins, and is baptized in the Trinity, then one becomes an adopted child of God, and an heir to His Kingdom-
It seems like everyone wants written proof-
one may find it in His Word, written in the Bible
It also seems like many desire shortcuts to the Truth-there are none- one just has to sit still and ask, God will answer.
Wishing you all the Peace that only Jesus may give this world.
May our Mother Bless you with her Holy Child.
I do know that we worship the same God
God is our Creator
He created Adam out of nothing and gave Him life by His Spirit
God then created Eve from Adam
Adam and Eve distrusted God, and brought sin and death into the world, and lost the indwelling Spirit.
Jesus was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary-who was conceived without sin.
Jesus is the second Adam and the first perfect human because He is the only begotten Son of God.
Mary is the new Eve, the Ark of the new and everlasting covenant
With the Grace of God, His Holy Spirit, Mary was able to chose to avoid mortal sin for her entire life
As the new Adam, Jesus is born with the indwelling Spirit of God, restoring what man had lost. His death and Resurrection restored the original plan of God-that man would have the capacity to live completely united to Him
I do know that we worship the same God.
I cannot be angry with or bitter towards someone who has not been given the gift of Faith from God,
But I can pray for deeper spiritual understanding for all of us.
The most wonderful fact is that we can all know God, here and now-if we but ask Him to reveal Himself to us
If one repents their sins, and is baptized in the Trinity, then one becomes an adopted child of God, and an heir to His Kingdom-
It seems like everyone wants written proof-
one may find it in His Word, written in the Bible
It also seems like many desire shortcuts to the Truth-there are none- one just has to sit still and ask, God will answer.
Wishing you all the Peace that only Jesus may give this world.
May our Mother Bless you with her Holy Child.
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planten
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inJESUS
Guest
Is it a habit of yours Planten to repeat the same claims after being explained a zillion time to you?
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dolphinlove
Guest
wow your good, i lost count after the billionth time
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Angelos
Guest
When did we Christians promise you that we would consider any CLAIM of angelic apparitions true and trustworthy? Mohammad made this same mistake of yours to no avail. If we believed in the authenticity of every angelic visitation, we would have to endorse so many conflicting messengers that use the same source for the ascription of divine authority. Do not worry, Mohammad is not the only person denied by us since we also deny Joseph Smith.
It is only presumed by you Muslims that Waraqah was a Christian (Catholic). What if he really had been one? Not every Christian is a true believer or a saint. You should avoid such generalizations.
First, it is not true that all Jews believed John the Baptist was Elijah, only some of them thought he was! There is no official teaching or a dogma in Judaism that identifies John the Baptist as the expected Elijah. Actually, Jews do not even believe that he was an ordinary prophet!
Second, you are telling lies about Christian tenets now, which is not good at all! Please be honest! Christianity always identified Jesus as BOTH the Messiah and the PROPHET of Deuteronomy.
Third, you are also telling lies about Jewish tenets. Judaism never taught that the predicted prophet in Deuteronomy would appear in Arabia! This is mere fantasy!
Jews expected the prophet to be an ISRAELITE and JEWISH. Mohammad was NONE! He was an ARAB and PAGAN. Whatever that Waraqah supposedly said was not confirmed by the prediction in Torah, which said “God will give YOU (Moses adressing Jews/Israelietes) a prophet from among your brothers” (Israelites since the notion of brotherhood defined not only racial, but also religious affiliation). Waraqah’s interpretation was absolutely wrong.
If Waraqah was such a great person and believer, why is he not in the Koran? Why does your Koran never set him as a model for other Christians?
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planten
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Waraqah was a very wise and knowledgeable man. He knew the scripture more than you people. That is why he was able to predict the future of Muhammad and his status. What he said came true. No one can deny it.
Muhamamd was persecuted (Just like Jesus). He migrated to another city. He was successful. You cannot deny the works of Muhammad. They are a good part of the world history. It is now spread over 1400 years.
Waraqah predicted something about Muhammad and it came true. What else do you need from Waraqah? I see in the bible, some one was stealthily passing the message to another person about the coming of the Messiah.
I am sure you would like to believe that happily and you will not question that person who did that. But you will question all about Waraqah. May Allah bless the soul of Waraqah in Paradise. He was such a true and unbiased, unprejudiced great christian. Well Done Waraqah. The only unbiased christian I had noticed till now.
Muhamamd was persecuted (Just like Jesus). He migrated to another city. He was successful. You cannot deny the works of Muhammad. They are a good part of the world history. It is now spread over 1400 years.
Waraqah predicted something about Muhammad and it came true. What else do you need from Waraqah? I see in the bible, some one was stealthily passing the message to another person about the coming of the Messiah.
I am sure you would like to believe that happily and you will not question that person who did that. But you will question all about Waraqah. May Allah bless the soul of Waraqah in Paradise. He was such a true and unbiased, unprejudiced great christian. Well Done Waraqah. The only unbiased christian I had noticed till now.
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Angelos
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Dear planten, you have forgotten to respond to my questions again!
I have never met Waraqah in my life and do not know if he knew the Bible well or if he taught Mohammad anything about that prediction in Deuteronomy. If he really did so, this means Waraqah was not a honest man that managed to deceive Mohammad by simply misinterpreting a verse in the Torah.
This is because “the prophet” promised in Deuteronomy is overtly identified as an Israelite and a Jew as Moses addresses the Israelite community when he says God will give YOU a prophet from among YOUR brothers (both racial and religious brotherhood). Mohammad bin Abdallah, as a pagan and Arab, was definitely NOT that certain prophet predicted by Moses.
I also see that you consider Waraqah the only unbiased Christian because of his supposed interpretation of a verse in Deuteronomy and blame all Christians that disagree with you for being prejudiced. What a biased Muslim you are!
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swariffin
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Off course, Planten. No Christian nor any other religious worshipper is unbiased according to you unless he/she supports the Quran.
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inJESUS
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planten
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When Waraqah told the truth, there was no Quran. Only a few verses had been revealed. But Waraqah recognised the truth. At least he told what he knew from the old traditions. He admitted it.
Whether you are all biased or not, at least Waraqah was not a biased non Muslim person. May Allah bless his soul all the more in paradise.
It is clear to me that you take the support of even a straw trying to prove that Jesus was a true person from God. You use all means even going to the extent of the visit of the angel to Joseph the carpentar, and even the visit of the angel to Mary.
But if ever the name of an angel is mentioned in connection with Muhammad then you say that it was not an angel. It was a devil.
There is something drastically wrong with your thinking. Do you see it please?
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Angelos
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How can you logically expect us to believe that the story of an angelic apparition to Mohammad was true solely because we believe that angels appeared to Joseph and Mary??? Your reasoning is completely erroneous. If I followed your reasoning, I would say “Hey Muslims, you believe that a book was revealed to Mohammad. This means you must also believe for the sake of justice that a new book has just been revealed to me”.
Besides, your argument that the Koran was not present when that certain Waraqah supposedly told your truth makes no sense since Mohammad was present as the only source of the Koran.
You could not answer the question why Waraqah is missing from your Koran despite his “unbiased faith”
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planten
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Dear planten, you have forgotten to respond to my questions again!
Which questions. I cannot recall now.
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Angelos
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You could easily go and check my previous post. I am sure my questions are still waiting for you there.
I do not worry about Waraqah or others. That was NOT the point of my post. You did not meet Mohammad either, so should I conclude that he was a dishonest man too?
What I wanted to emphasise about Waraqah was that I knew nothing about him and naturally had doubts about the authenticity of your claims. I do not know Waraqah, but the fact that I know Muslims suffices to make me approach him and the claims about him with doubt.
I must go now. I shall respond to your other points later
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Angelos
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First, in order to refute your assertion and prove that the promise identifies “the prophet” as an Israelite, we should see what the word “brethren” refers to in Deuteronomy:
Deuteronomy 17: 14-15
When thou art come into the land, which the Lord thy God will give thee, and possessest it, and shalt say: I will set a king over me, as all nations have that are round about: Thou shalt set him whom the Lord thy God shall choose out of the number of thy brethren. Thou mayst not make a man of another nation king, that is not thy brother.
**Deuteronomy 18:1-2 **
The priests and Levites, and all that are of the same tribe, shall have no part nor inheritance with the rest of Israel, because they shall eat the sacrifices of the Lord, and his oblations, And they shall receive nothing else of the possession of their brethren.
Both of the verses quoted above mean that the promised prophet must be an Israelite, for the word brethren pertains to the same members of the Israelite community and the brotherhood of other nations is overtly denied.
Second, there is no verse in Deuteronomy 18 that highlights the racial brotherhood between Israelites and Ishmaelites. Neither Moses nor God makes an assocaition between the promised prophet and Ishmael’s descendants.
Third, God in the Torah recurrently singles out Israel as the only chosen nation and thus slams the door on any possible association between Ishmaelites and Israelites. For the God of Moses there are two nations: Israel and “others” (including Ishmaelites).
Fourth, while interpreting the verse in question, Muslims restrict the notion of brotherhood to racial affiliation disregarding the primary significance of monotheism for the God of Torah. What they fail to see is that it is impossible for God to identify a pagan nation as brothers of His elected Israel. Moses, who slays true Israelites that choose idolatry, cannot have designated pagan Ishmaelites as his brothers. Consequently, it is impossible for Arabs, who were idolaters before Islam like Mohammad himself, to be the brethren from among whom the prophet would be sent.
Your argument is full of logical fallacies. First, you cannot expect Jesus to be similar to Moses in everything, for the verse says the prophet will be LIKE Moses, not IDENTICAL with Moses. According to your reasoning, Mohammad cannot be the promised prophet either since you Muslims believe that Moses was sent to Israel whereas Mohammad was sent to the whole mankind!
If you read the New Testament, you can readily find many similarities between Moses and Jesus. Even the way we name the Jewish and Christian scripture (Old Testament and New Testament) point out a certain similarity between Moses and Jesus.) Above all, Jesus is THE PROPHET because He was a Jew and Israelite, one sent to Israel from among the Israelites. The verse in the Torah says God will give ISRAEL a prophet like Moses. Since Mohammad never preached in Israel, he cannot be the prophet.
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Angelos
Guest
How long has Jewish disbelief affected the way you believe? The Jews of Jesus’ time did not believe that He was the Messiah either. The Jews of Jesus’ time did not believe that He had been miraculously conceived either. The Jews of Jesus’ time did not believe that He was a prophet either. The Jews of Jesus’ time did not believe that John the Baptist was a prophet either. I now wonder if you are gonna change your Islamic tenets in the Koran about John and Jesus because of those Jews’ disbelief. Please let me know
I fail to understand what you mean by your phrase “so long a time”. Jesus’ apostles and disciples were not slow or hesitant to regard Him as the promised prophet. The Acts records how early Christians believed the promise of the prophet in Deuteronomy 18 was fulfilled in Jesus Himself.
David was a King himself and predicted that Messiah would be a king like Him. Jesus is the celestial King as the Messiah. Moses was a great prophet and predicted that God’s divine promise to nation of Israel would be associated with the notion of prophetic ministry. Actually, Jesus the Messiah had the characteristics of both the great Israelite King David and great Israelite prophet Moses. Nothing wrong with that!
We are not the least alarmed about a man who supposedly misinterpreted a verse in the Torah. People make mistakes. Moreover, I certainly doubt that Waraqah knew the Bible and informed Mohammad of that prediction.
What does this have to do with the promise in Deuteronomy??? I am all the more convinced now that you become impertinent when you are out of argument. Anyway, thanks for your comments.
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inJESUS
Guest
Well when God was promising a prophet to Jews, He was not promising them being KILLED by that prophet
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Angelos
Guest
Well when God was promising a prophet to Jews, He was not promising them being KILLED by that prophet
Put the whole blame on dear Waraqah for this confusion. - Status