Regarding Necessary Conditions for Miracles to be Granted

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I am distressed because Jesus promised God would give us good things ‘soon’, but I have been waiting a long time, which seems to falsify Jesus’ promise.
Ethereality;
From your page:
After studying God’s Word and the normative instruction of His Church, my position is a bit more nuanced: If we observe the points below, not only should we expect God to grant our petitions, but we must expect God to do so, if we are to receive them. I’m wondering what your thoughts are, and would appreciate additional guidance or correction
I ask you to read the book of Job

Reflect upon the passion of Christ.

Finally consider the following:
Luke 4:12
And Jesus answering said to him, It is said, Thou shalt not tempt [the] Lord thy God.

Jesus didn’t promise us an easy life and you should consider, what does “soon” mean to God, he is past, present, and future all at once! What is a long time to you is nothing to the Lord our God… for that fact, the entire existence of the universe is as nothing, not even a blink of an eye, to God.

but I can say it no better than this (emphasis mine):
God’s Promise for the Disappointed
When I feel disappointed by God it’s because at that moment there’s something I’m longing for more than him, whether it be healing, employment, a child, a wife. As good as healing, employment, children, and marriage are, none of them will come close to satisfying me as much as God himself will.

So when I’m disappointed by God there’s a problem with my faith. I’m not trusting that God himself is who he says he is for me in Jesus. I’m not trusting him as my all-satisfying Treasure.

keep in mind, the author is a Protestant Minister; however, when they get it right, they hit the nail on the head… of course he lacks the sacraments… go to confession, go to the Mass, have an hour of adoration…

to expect God to do your will…
All prayers are answered
Yes
Not Yet
I have something else in mind.

pray for peace
 
You seem not to be a careful reader, because if you had read more into the point you quoted, you would have found:
NABRE Mark 11
22 Jesus said to them in reply, “Have faith in God. 23 Amen, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, ‘Be lifted up and thrown into the sea,’ and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it shall be done for him. 24 Therefore I tell you, all that you ask for in prayer, believe that you will receive it and it shall be yours. 25 When you stand to pray, forgive anyone against whom you have a grievance, so that your heavenly Father may in turn forgive you your transgressions.”
Jesus commands us to believe that we will receive it. You are telling me not to believe that I will receive it. It appears that you are contradicting Jesus, z_0101.
what does “soon” mean to God, he is past, present, and future all at once! What is a long time to you is not
This seems not to work, because otherwise it robs the text of its literal meaning. Why would Jesus lie to us?
7 Will not God then secure the rights of his chosen ones who call out to him day and night? Will he be slow to answer them? 8 I tell you, he will see to it that justice is done for them speedily.
This cannot mean “not speedily for those crying out day and night” as you suggest, because it is what the text literally means. The Catechism instructs us that we base every other meaning off of the literal meaning of the text. Hence you cannot deny the literal meaning of the text.
NABRE Matthew 7
7 “Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.
8 For everyone who asks, receives; and the one who seeks, finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.
9 Which one of you would hand his son a stone when he asks for a loaf of bread,
10 or a snake when he asks for a fish?
11 If you then, who are wicked, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give good things to those who ask him.
This doesn’t appear to be the case. Instead of healing my wounds, I get some trifling pleasures, as if God gives a piece of candy to a kid with a broken leg as if that’s “good enough”. In fact, often I suffer more after praying, as if God is supporting Mohammedanism and wanting me to stop praying in Jesus name.

Your Protestant friend is talking theory, and in practice he is incorrect.
So if God chooses not to heal me, it’s because sickness will bring me even more of his all-satisfying presence than healing would have brought me.
The fact is that I would know God loves me if I received this healing, whereas without it I am forced to doubt God’s existence. Hence not being healed is not “bringing me nearer to God.” I am forced to doubt God’s existence by virtue of reason, because it is more plausible that God does not exist than that my suffering in this way “is better for me.” In other words, you are suggesting, “It’s better for you to want to die from experiencing so much misery, rather than God heal you and you live with the knowledge that the Church is correct.” My misery is so great that I would rather die than wake up tomorrow. You suggesting this is “God’s will” is absurd. You suggesting God is keeping me in this misery “because it’s what’s best for me” and “because God loves me” is likewise absurd. Hence, as I said, it is more plausible to believe that God does not exist, given these options.
 
Will you please read my analysis of petitionary prayer for miraculous healing and share your thoughts? Am I correct? Are there any flaws? Am I missing anything?

I am distressed because Jesus promised God would give us good things ‘soon’, but I have been waiting a long time, which seems to falsify Jesus’ promise.
Each miracle has a meaning to reveal the Will of God.“Miracles are signs of God’s Providence over men, hence they are of high moral character, simple and obvious in the forces at work, in the circumstances of their working, and in their aim and purpose.”

“By prayer man speaks to God in acts of faith, hope, love, and contrition and implores His aid. In answer to prayer God acts on the soul by His grace and, in special circumstances, by working miracles.”

“In the miracle, therefore, God subordinates physical nature to a higher purpose, and this higher purpose is identical with the highest moral aims of existence.”

newadvent.org/cathen/10338a.htm
Examples of miracles, where natural forces could not alone have produced the effect in the way it was actually brought about:
  1. raising a dead man, the widow’s son, to life (1 Kings 17)
  2. Eliseus raising the axe-head to the surface of the water (2 Kings 6)
  3. the Three Children were preserved untouched in the fiery furnace (Daniel 3)
  4. the preservation of Daniel (Daniel 5)
  5. the changing of water into wine at Cana (John 2)
  6. the multiplication of loaves by Jesus (John 6)
  7. the cure of the man born blind (John 9)
  8. raising a dead man Lazarus to life (John 11)
  9. the cure of the leper (Luke 5)
  10. the raising to life of the widow’s son (Luke 7)
  11. the miracles of the centurion’s servant (Matthew 8)
  12. the Syro-phoenician woman (Mark 7)
  13. the deliverance of St. Peter from prison (Acts 12)
  14. the deliverance of St. Paul from shipwreck (Acts 27)
  15. the Transfiguration (Matthew 17)
  16. the Resurrection (Gospels and Acts)
  17. St. Paul’s miracles (Romans 15:18-19)
  18. curing the lame (Acts 3:14),
  19. healing the sick, and driving out demons (Acts 8:7-8)
  20. raising the dead (Acts 20:10 and following)
 
God’s will is the only true happiness.
We seek Him through our love of Himself alone, not for what He gives us.

You can make yourself a victim soul offering yourself for the conversion of sinners.
How can we love God and not love Him in other souls, not love the souls for whom He paid such a high price?

“It makes me happy to suffer for you, as I am suffering now, and in my own body to do what I can to make up all that is still to be undergone by Christ for the sake of His Body, the Church” (Col 1:24).
Christ is still redeeming the world, with our cooperation.

“The apostolate of suffering is not some exotic enterprise for only mystics or what we sometimes call “victim souls.” It is open to everyone who has faith, and love, and zeal for souls. Faith assures us that suffering must be noble, seeing that God became man in order to suffer and thereby save the world. Love enables us to make of every pain a willing sacrifice, seeing that it costs us so much. And zeal for souls urges us actually to rejoice as we are privileged to suffer something for the myriad souls redeemed by the blood of Christ.”
~Father Hardon
 
“No matter what physical or psychic causes it may have, illness is also due, at least sometimes, to a superior evil power. The incidence of illness may seem fortuitous to man, but it is sometimes due to the calculated action of superior wicked powers. This superior power has its being not only in the impairment of the body, but also in the confusion and ruin of the spirit.”
~Heinrich Schleer
who was a widely respected Protestant Biblical scholar for decades until his study of the Book of Ephesians after many, many years, led him into the Catholic Church.

An interesting page about HOLY HEALING is HERE.

Excerpt:
Let me explain what Pope Pius XI was saying. A lot of people reduce the Sacrament of Anointing to the death bed: that is, it’s just simply something that you do to get them ready to die. It certainly is that, but it’s much more than that. It’s something which touches upon this human life in other moments as well. If there’s just prudent or probable judgment of danger, this sacrament may be validly administered. This is a healing sacrament, and it touches the body as well as the soul because the body is redeemed as well as the soul.
So we should take advantage of this sacrament whenever there is such a prudent or probable judgment of danger because it heals the soul and strengthens the soul to overcome sin and also often heals the body. This is something that Protestants have been experiencing outside the Church. We have seen all kinds of ways in which God is working outside the ordinary means of the Catholic Church to kind of wake us up so that we can experience the far superior power of the sacrament itself. This sacrament is powerful to heal. Let’s get that into our heads and hearts and spread the word.
Now does this mean that we should become basically a worldwide faith healing cult and stop visiting the doctors? After all, what’s going on with all the rising health costs? No, of course not. That would be wrong and wrong-headed. Therapy should be sought. We should consult specialists. We should not despise true scientific knowledge. We should also depend upon the Lord and we should pray and we should depend upon the sacraments. Throughout the gospels we have this balance.
 
Will you please read my analysis of petitionary prayer for miraculous healing and share your thoughts? Am I correct? Are there any flaws? Am I missing anything?

I am distressed because Jesus promised God would give us good things ‘soon’, but I have been waiting a long time, which seems to falsify Jesus’ promise.
I did read your webpage and I have one comment. But before I give my comment, please know that I like the points listed in your “summary” and I also want to thank you for the pertinent biblical quotations. I copied them to my hard drive for future use, as you have already done the research for me.

Now for the comment. My comment refers to what you stated in your opening words:
What does God say about healing? This webpage seeks to clarify how to pray and how to discern God’s will. The response I often hear regarding praying for miracles is a negative, discouraging one, namely, “if God wills it.” The person saying this always implies that God likely has different plans and therefore we should not expect to receive what we request. This dejected mentality has even become codified liturgically, as priests sometimes end petitionary prayer at Mass with words like, “Grant these, if they are in accordance with Your will.” (Otherwise, please put them in the recycling bin?)
I don’t think that it is a dejected mentality to pray with a condition, “if they are in accordance with your will.” Indeed, this is exactly how our Lord prayed in the Garden of Gethsemani: “Father, if thou wilt, remove this chalice from me: nevertheless, not my will, but Thine, be done" (Luke 22:42). When you pray with that condition, it does not mean that you are doubting God’s goodness and His willingness to help you. It only means that you are praying with a spirit of submission to His holy Will. Remember what St. John said in his epistle: “And this is the confidence which we have in him: that whatsoever we shall ask, according to his will, he heareth us” (1 John 5:14).

I also read your other remarks (Post#3), where you seem to doubt God’s goodness and His existence unless you receive healing. But please remember that our faith and our confidence in God’s goodness do not compel Him to perform a miracle for us. Our prayers – even if they were made with great faith – are not commands that God must obey. God is free to grant or not to grant our request. Even saints and apostles do not always receive what they ask for in prayer. For example, St. Paul prayed thrice for a cure to a pain in his flesh, but God in His wisdom chose not to heal his infirmity, saying that His grace was sufficient (2 Corinthians 12:7-9). Should we say that St. Paul did not have faith? Of course not! God has also worked other miracles through him before (For example, see Acts of the Apostles 16:16-18). The truth is that God is free to grant or not to grant our prayers according to His wisdom and His good will. The faith of the praying person does not impose an obligation on God to grant the petition! It is false to think that anyone can necessitate God to perform any miracle at any time just by having great faith. For God to grant the requested miracle or healing, it must first accord with His wisdom and His will. This is the reason why we must pray with a spirit of submission to God’s will!

Now, does the fact that you have not received the healing that you were expecting, invalidate Christ’s words in Matthew 7? Does our Father not know how to give good gifts to His children? I highly doubt that. At this moment He is simply giving you something even better than physical healing. He is teaching you to be understanding and wise, and not to misjudge Him for His decisions.

Finally, let me give you one tip that I sometimes find helpful. Have you attempted to accompany your prayer with fasting? You made a nice quotation from Mark 11:22, to the effect that with faith you can move mountains. But did you know that there is a parallel text in Matthew 17:18-20, also saying that with faith you can move mountains? But what is significant in Matthew is that Christ’s words were a response to the disciples who complained that they couldn’t cast out demons. Christ said that with faith nothing shall be impossible for them to do, but that this kind (of demon) is not cast out but by prayer and fasting. So, you see, there are certain illnesses that can’t be healed by faith and prayer alone. You also need to fast.

Hope this helps.
 
And zeal for souls urges us actually to rejoice as we are privileged to suffer something for the myriad souls redeemed by the blood of Christ.”
~Father Hardon
This is incomprehensible to me. Suffering is not a privilege, and the suggestion that God would require it for a soul already redeemed by Jesus is sadism; likewise, suggesting suffering is a privilege is masochism.

Do I offer up my suffering to God every time I receive the Eucharist? Yes. But I think the only value it has as a sacrifice is the act of trust: “I don’t understand why you are making me suffer, but please bring good from it.” Biblically, the only value any sacrifice has is when it is 1) something good that is 2) freely given. Both of these conditions must be met.

The suffering itself I don’t see as having any value because I had no choice in the matter: The only way for me to possibly avoid my suffering is to kill myself, but that’s disallowed. So any suffering I experience I have no power to avoid (i.e. “legitimate suffering”, suffering that is not caused by my own sins). Offering up one’s suffering as a sacrifice that is pleasing to the father, then, requires sacrificing one’s own pride: To say, “I don’t understand, but will trust you anyway.”

This flatly contradicts the quotation you’ve shared, those statements which I would say are absurd. If you’re going down the aisle throwing flowers and “rejoicing”, then you’re not really suffering. In other words, what you’ve shared is nothing more than a mental exercise, the result of someone sitting at a desk thinking about suffering – it is not real life; it is not talking about real suffering.
 
I believe Rom44 has a very wise post. I feel very much the fighting off of despair that exudes from the OP initial post. My sad, small prayers are for you today, that you may be healed.
I have just come out of the hospital after two and a half months. I am full of targin, morphine, endone, you name it I am on it and still there is pain. Some nights they asked me of my pain level from 1 -10 I had to honestly respond with a 15.
How do you cope. I offered my suffering and still do to Our Lady’s intentions, not mine, with a caveat that she consider those I have sinned with in this life.
I am slowly dying from Pulmonary hypertension, and are on 24/7 oxygen and look more to the escatalogical truths than ever.
I believe I can understand your anger at God, however to go there is to lose a Father, friend, and Love.
I believe we can be unctuous in dealing with the promises of Christ in the light of human suffering, saying In His good time; As He wills etc. I am more aggressive with my Father. He told us he will look after us as a son; he told us that He answers our petitions as the reluctant judge; etc. I truly believe that we must be assertive in expecting to be healed if we asked Him; that is what faith implies.
Have I asked to be cured? No, only once I asked that the pain would be lessened and there was no reply. Do I despair? No, because all we have is the promise of Christ, and I have surrendered myself to His Will. I don’t understand either. In all reason I should reject it all as rubbish and up the morphine. But I am not a fool. I know that Faith needs submission of the will and I do so in a quiet understanding that my Father has not deserted me, rather He is waiting for me, indeed rushing to me to gather me to His house. I cry for forgiveness, not miracles. I try to grow in love for Him not by demands but by offerings. My pain makes no sense unless it somehow is a facet of a fallen world. I only ask Mary to take this dirt and grow flowers for the Lord so I will have something to bring before His feet when I see Him. I have few good works, fewer prayers, so I am pleased in the spirit of the Encyclical on Human Suffering to have this opportunity to share with my Christ; to somehow atone for my contribution to Calvary.
By all means demand a cure, your faith demands, but lose no hope if it is not now, for even the first Christians expected the return of Christ in their lifetimes such is our misunderstanding of God’s intentions. I will pray for your cure and more importantly your continued faith.
 
Suffering is not a privilege, and the suggestion that God would require it for a soul already redeemed by Jesus is sadism; likewise, suggesting suffering is a privilege is masochism.
“Suffering is not a privilege.” I like to comment on that. But first, let’s be clear about what a privilege is.

I think that a privilege is a special benefit or opportunity granted to you but not to others. For example, it is a privilege for you to be born rich, for the wealth you possess grants you many opportunities that will be available to you but not to others, such as education, comfort, etc. However, it is up to you to take advantage of a privilege when you receive one. Often, it is simply foolish not to take advantage of a privilege, or to waste it.

When Catholics say that suffering is a privilege, what they mean is that it gives them an opportunity to participate in Christ’s redemptive work by uniting their suffering with His own. Clearly, not all who suffer take advantage of their suffering. They look at it only as if it is a curse or a punishment unjustly inflicted upon them. They waste the opportunity to turn their suffering into a valuable, meritorious act.

Consider the two thieves who were crucified with Christ. I really think that it is a privilege to die with Christ on Calvary. The good thief took advantage of it, but the bad thief wasted it.

To those who have no faith, suffering is nothing but an evil that must be avoided. But to those who see suffering as an opportunity to participate in Christ’s work, suffering takes on a different meaning. When one suffers with and for Christ, then even death itself is worth taking. It is only in this sense that those who suffer are privileged and blessed. Christ’s words echo deeply in the heart of the martyrs: “Blessed are they that mourn … blessed are they that suffer and thirst after justice … blessed are they that suffer persecution for justice sake…” (Matthew 5:3-12).

Not all suffering is meritorious, but every suffering is a privilege, an opportunity to join Christ in His Passion. It is then up to you to be blessed on account of it, or to waste it.
 
This is incomprehensible to me. Suffering is not a privilege, and the suggestion that God would require it for a soul already redeemed by Jesus is sadism; likewise, suggesting suffering is a privilege is masochism.

Do I offer up my suffering to God every time I receive the Eucharist? Yes. But I think the only value it has as a sacrifice is the act of trust: “I don’t understand why you are making me suffer, but please bring good from it.” Biblically, the only value any sacrifice has is when it is 1) something good that is 2) freely given. Both of these conditions must be met.

The suffering itself I don’t see as having any value because I had no choice in the matter: The only way for me to possibly avoid my suffering is to kill myself, but that’s disallowed. So any suffering I experience I have no power to avoid (i.e. “legitimate suffering”, suffering that is not caused by my own sins). Offering up one’s suffering as a sacrifice that is pleasing to the father, then, requires sacrificing one’s own pride: To say, “I don’t understand, but will trust you anyway.”

This flatly contradicts the quotation you’ve shared, those statements which I would say are absurd. If you’re going down the aisle throwing flowers and “rejoicing”, then you’re not really suffering. In other words, what you’ve shared is nothing more than a mental exercise, the result of someone sitting at a desk thinking about suffering – it is not real life; it is not talking about real suffering.
Here is a story of St. Francis’ explaining what pain really is.

feastofsaints.com/perfectjoy.htm
 
I don’t think that it is a dejected mentality to pray with a condition, “if they are in accordance with your will.” Indeed, this is exactly how our Lord prayed in the Garden of Gethsemani: “Father, if thou wilt, remove this chalice from me: nevertheless, not my will, but Thine, be done" (Luke 22:42). When you pray with that condition, it does not mean that you are doubting God’s goodness and His willingness to help you. It only means that you are praying with a spirit of submission to His holy Will. Remember what St. John said in his epistle: “And this is the confidence which we have in him: that whatsoever we shall ask, according to his will, he heareth us” (1 John 5:14).
Right, but in effect your are encouraging me to doubt that it’s God’s will for me to be healed, and hence to doubt that I will be healed, which would then seem to invalidate my prayers entirely, as Jesus seems to be teaching a prerequisite for receiving the healing is to believe that we will receive it. See the Bible passages I quoted.
For example, St. Paul prayed thrice for a cure to a pain in his flesh, but God in His wisdom chose not to heal his infirmity, saying that His grace was sufficient (2 Corinthians 12:7-9). Should we say that St. Paul did not have faith? Of course not! God has also worked other miracles through him before (For example, see Acts of the Apostles 16:16-18).
The difference is that God spoke to Paul and told him why. For a while, I prayed for the same: “If it is not your will to heal me, please tell me why, otherwise I must think that I am correct in discerning your will.” I received no indication to the contrary that it wasn’t God’s will for me to be healed – to the contrary, look at the Bible, and Jesus commands us to persevere in prayer. Yet Jesus told me “soon”, and it has been a long time, so one could argue that Jesus has lied to me (and hence the Gospel narratives are unreliable, etc).
The faith of the praying person does not impose an obligation on God to grant the petition!
You’re also inverting my argument – looking at it backwards, or incorrectly. I am not saying “God must because x.” I am saying, “Because of x, then if God does not, then it seems God is not good, Jesus is a liar, etc.” All I am doing is looking at what Jesus tells us at face value, and the Church confirms this method of Biblical interpretation, that all meanings must be based on the literal meaning of the text.
It is false to think that anyone can necessitate God to perform any miracle at any time just by having great faith.
Of course, but no one here is arguing that.
At this moment He is simply giving you something even better than physical healing. He is teaching you to be understanding and wise, and not to misjudge Him for His decisions.
No, he is giving me misery and making me want to kill myself. I think about it maybe once a week now. (Three different methods come to mind as I write this post.) That is not something a loving father should do to his son. (A quick internet search on suicide will reveal that one begins contemplating suicide when one’s pains become greater than one’s ability to cope with them. God could easily help me with this.) He is also making me apathetic – for example, a) why should I protest feticide? Babies killed in utero get to skip this not-worth-living life. b) How can I argue that Christianity is correct and Mohammedanism is false, when my faith in the Gospel turns up nothing different? (The Gospel narratives could be unreliable, and the miracles we hear about (e.g. Fatima, or John Paul II’s) are all unverifiable.)
Finally, let me give you one tip that I sometimes find helpful. Have you attempted to accompany your prayer with fasting? You made a nice quotation from Mark 11:22, to the effect that with faith you can move mountains. But did you know that there is a parallel text in Matthew 17:18-20, also saying that with faith you can move mountains? But what is significant in Matthew is that Christ’s words were a response to the disciples who complained that they couldn’t cast out demons. Christ said that with faith nothing shall be impossible for them to do, but that this kind (of demon) is not cast out but by prayer and fasting. So, you see, there are certain illnesses that can’t be healed by faith and prayer alone. You also need to fast.
I may sometimes fast, depending on how one defines it. I cannot go 24 hours without food, though, without sacrificing my work, which seems to be neglecting my responsibilities (failing to do God’s will).
 
“Suffering is not a privilege.” I like to comment on that. But first, let’s be clear about what a privilege is.

I think that a privilege is a special benefit or opportunity granted to you but not to others. For example, it is a privilege for you to be born rich, for the wealth you possess grants you many opportunities that will be available to you but not to others, such as education, comfort, etc. However, it is up to you to take advantage of a privilege when you receive one. Often, it is simply foolish not to take advantage of a privilege, or to waste it.

When Catholics say that suffering is a privilege, what they mean is that it gives them an opportunity to participate in Christ’s redemptive work by uniting their suffering with His own. Clearly, not all who suffer take advantage of their suffering. They look at it only as if it is a curse or a punishment unjustly inflicted upon them. They waste the opportunity to turn their suffering into a valuable, meritorious act.

Consider the two thieves who were crucified with Christ. I really think that it is a privilege to die with Christ on Calvary. The good thief took advantage of it, but the bad thief wasted it.

To those who have no faith, suffering is nothing but an evil that must be avoided. But to those who see suffering as an opportunity to participate in Christ’s work, suffering takes on a different meaning. When one suffers with and for Christ, then even death itself is worth taking. It is only in this sense that those who suffer are privileged and blessed. Christ’s words echo deeply in the heart of the martyrs: “Blessed are they that mourn … blessed are they that suffer and thirst after justice … blessed are they that suffer persecution for justice sake…” (Matthew 5:3-12).

Not all suffering is meritorious, but every suffering is a privilege, an opportunity to join Christ in His Passion. It is then up to you to be blessed on account of it, or to waste it.
The problem here is that I cannot understand what this means, and hence cannot understand “how to do it”: For me to “participate in Jesus’ redemptive work” means there is redemptive work that Jesus did not do. For me to ‘make up what is lacking in the sufferings of Christ’ means that Christ did not suffer various things. Justice would also seem to imply that we deserve a reward for our toil, yet the Church teaches that we cannot earn heaven. So what you say sounds nice on its surface, and I understand you’re recapitulating what St. John Paul II wrote in his encyclical “Salvifici Doloris”, but it doesn’t make sense, and hence I don’t know what to do. Thus, it does not help me.

To clarify, of course every time I attend Mass, I pray that God will accept my sufferings in union with Christ’s for the salvation of poor sinners.
 
Of course, but no one here is arguing that.
No, he is giving me misery and making me want to kill myself. I think about it maybe once a week now. (Three different methods come to mind as I write this post.) That is not something a loving father should do to his son. (A quick internet search on suicide will reveal that one begins contemplating suicide when one’s pains become greater than one’s ability to cope with them. God could easily help me with this.) He is also making me apathetic – for example, a) why should I protest feticide? Babies killed in utero get to skip this not-worth-living life. b) How can I argue that Christianity is correct and Mohammedanism is false, when my faith in the Gospel turns up nothing different? (The Gospel narratives could be unreliable, and the miracles we hear about (e.g. Fatima, or John Paul II’s) are all unverifiable.)

Hi Ethereality,

I am so sorry that you are feeling this way–as you are–above.

Have you thought about talking to your pastor, or parish priest about how you feel? That is what I would do, if I were you.

I understand what it is like to suffer, and to have many health problems. In fact, the older I get, the more health problems I have. I have prayed for healing for myself, and others have prayed for me, but I have not received any healing.

What I pray for now is that the health care people who are helping me, may receive God’s guidance and wisdom when they help me, and I also pray for comfort when I am especially in a lot of pain.

I think that it is human nature to wonder why some people are healed–even in the miraculous sense–and why others aren’t.

I unite my sufferings with those of Jesus on the cross, especially when I am feeling particularly unwell.

Prayers said for you. God bless you. :hug1:
 
Sorry, Ethereality, for this late response. I do not visit catholic forums daily, but today I noticed that you had made some responses to my posts. I will address some of your comments.
Right, but in effect your are encouraging me to doubt that it’s God’s will for me to be healed, and hence to doubt that I will be healed, which would then seem to invalidate my prayers entirely, as Jesus seems to be teaching a prerequisite for receiving the healing is to believe that we will receive it. See the Bible passages I quoted.
Actually, it may not be God’s will that you be healed, or at least not yet. So, I am not encouraging you to doubt what God wills for you. Rather, I am encouraging you to accept what He wills.

That you are not healed in spite of your faith does not invalidate Christ’s words. Indeed, faith is a prerequisite, or a necessary condition, for healing. But it is not a sufficient condition. Perhaps an example will illustrate the difference. Suppose a doctor tells you, “To be healthy, you must eat well.” OK, does that mean that if you eat well, then your health will be guaranteed? No, because you also need exercise, sleep, etc. to be healthy. In other words, eating well is a necessary condition for maintaining your health, but it is not a sufficient condition. In the same manner, faith is necessary to obtain favors from God. But faith alone is not sufficient. Other conditions must be met, one of which is that the favor you ask must fully accord with God’s will.
The difference is that God spoke to Paul and told him why.
Will it really make a difference if God spoke to you directly as He did to St. Paul? Would you have accepted His will if He simply said, “my grace is sufficient”? God speaks to you also in many ways. For He is not limited to using His words alone. He can also speak to you through the counsels of other people, or through the lessons and events of everyday life.
You’re also inverting my argument – looking at it backwards, or incorrectly. I am not saying “God must because x.” I am saying, “Because of x, then if God does not, then it seems God is not good, Jesus is a liar, etc.” All I am doing is looking at what Jesus tells us at face value, and the Church confirms this method of Biblical interpretation, that all meanings must be based on the literal meaning of the text.
I agree with the general principle of interpreting the Bible literally. However, I do not think that you are making a good literal interpretation if you read a necessary condition as if it were a sufficient condition, or if you read an encouragement as if it were a promise. But how do we know what is truly meant by the sacred text? *By not reading biblical passages in isolation from the rest of Holy Scripture. *

Consider these words of our Lord: “And all things whatsoever you shall ask in prayer, believing, you shall receive” (Mt. 21:22) If you read this text alone, you might think that Christ meant to say that by praying with a strong faith, then you can get everything you ask for. But if you read other parts of Holy Scripture, then you know that it is not so. In 2 Samuel 12:16-19 we read King David himself fasting and praying for his sick child to be healed, but the child died instead! Surely David was a man of faith. He was the author of those Psalms that say “The Lord is my shepherd…” Yet his faith was not enough. Faith is necessary, but not sufficient. So, how should we interpret Mt. 21:22? In the light of David’s experience, and that of St. Paul, we should interpret Christ’s words as an encouragement to pray with faith (for without faith you will not receive your request). However, it is an **encouragement, **not a promise!
No, he is giving me misery and making me want to kill myself. I think about it maybe once a week now. (Three different methods come to mind as I write this post.) That is not something a loving father should do to his son.
If God gives you pain and misery, then accept it because it is His will. (It is not His will that you kill yourself, though.) Do not think that because God is good, that He will never want to see you suffer or feel pain. It is the devil who wants you to think that way. The devil always wants the easy way out, or the rosy path. The honest truth is that God also wills pain and suffering in the world as part of His great plan for humankind.

Remember, God wills every physical event that happens in the world. Not a leaf will fall without God’s permission. Therefore, sickness, death, natural disasters, etc., are also all expressions of God’s will, although we often regard them as physical evil. Truly, God wills them. Indeed, the only evil that He does not will is moral evil or sin. But He does will what we commonly call physical evil. How come? Because in the grand scheme of things, these so-called “physical evils” are not really evil in His design. What you often see as physical evil is merely the result of natural laws that He has wisely implanted in nature. For example, you see someone fall from a tree and you think it is an evil? Well, of course, it is. But if God eliminates gravity (so nothing falls), do you think we will be able to walk on earth as we do now? Also, will there be martyrs if there is no death? And in the moral plane, will there be pardon if there are no offenders?

So, if you are afflicted with pain and suffering, accept it as coming from the providential Hand of God. Sometimes, it is not easy for us to see things from God’s point of view, and we misjudge Him for His wise providence. But I encourage you to trust Him as you would trust a loving Father. He knows what you need even before you ask Him.
 
The problem here is that I cannot understand what this means, and hence cannot understand “how to do it”: For me to “participate in Jesus’ redemptive work” means there is redemptive work that Jesus did not do. For me to ‘make up what is lacking in the sufferings of Christ’ means that Christ did not suffer various things. Justice would also seem to imply that we deserve a reward for our toil, yet the Church teaches that we cannot earn heaven. So what you say sounds nice on its surface, and I understand you’re recapitulating what St. John Paul II wrote in his encyclical “Salvifici Doloris”, but it doesn’t make sense, and hence I don’t know what to do. Thus, it does not help me.
Christ carried the heavy cross to save us. To participate in His redemptive work simply means to carry our cross with Him. We all have crosses to carry. To some, their cross is their unfaithful spouse. To others, it is their bad children, their annoying neighbors, etc. And for most of us, the cross is nothing else but ourselves, our frail body, our vices, or our work.

Speaking theologically, there is nothing lacking in our Lord’s suffering, and He could save the world even if we do not suffer with Him. This does not mean that your carrying the cross with Him has no redemptive value. Sure, we cannot earn heaven, save our souls or others, by our own efforts and sufferings alone. Our suffering has redemptive value only when joined with the sufferings of Christ. This is why it makes sense to unite our sufferings with Christ, because our sufficiency comes from Him.
To clarify, of course every time I attend Mass, I pray that God will accept my sufferings in union with Christ’s for the salvation of poor sinners.
👍 God bless you!
 
you have to trust that God will give you the best, but what is the best? when is the best moment? that is something He knows and not us, at least not always. just pray with faith and accept what He wants. thinking that somehow we could make God to obey us is simply insane and superstitious depending on how your thinking is.
 
It seems the consensus of this thread is, “God wants you to be miserable and long for death.”

I think Rom is simply mistaken (and the red text is difficult to read). He says Matthew 21:22 is an encouragement, not a promise. But read the text:
Jesus said to them in reply, “Amen, I say to you, if you have faith and do not waver, not only will you do what has been done to the fig tree, but even if you say to this mountain, ‘Be lifted up and thrown into the sea,’ it will be done.
If it was an encouragement as Rom says, Jesus would have said, “it can be done”, or “it may be done”. Instead, the translation reads – and check any authorized version you like – “it will be done.” It is a promise, not an encouragement.

To be frank, it seems more plausible to me that God does not exist at this point. How can I explain the historical narrative commonly explained by the Resurrection? I cannot, but that bothers me less than not being able to explain why a loving God would want us to live in misery. You are basically condoning child abuse. The only difference is that this Father should know better to the infinite degree, whereas human fathers who abuse their children have finite intellects, etc.

We imprison humans who neglect their children. On what basis do you exonerate God for neglecting us? It appears to me you are simply assuming “your misery is for a good reason”.

Of course I know the Book of Job. Its answer to these questions are, “You are sinning simply by asking these questions, because you are impugning God’s infinite wisdom and perfection.” (This is God’s answer to Job’s questioning: “Where were you when I made the world?” His response is that He is infinite whereas we are nothing.) But I’m asking at a more fundamental level – how do you know the Church is correct?
 
-]/-]
Will you please read my analysis of petitionary prayer for miraculous healing and share your thoughts? Am I correct? Are there any flaws? Am I missing anything?

I am distressed because Jesus promised God would give us good things ‘soon’, but I have been waiting a long time, which seems to falsify Jesus’ promise.
Oh, ethereality. I am praying for you and your consolation. Hope in God’s healing, have faith that He will bring something good from your suffering, either for you or for someone else. Please look into Blessed Mother Teresa’s “dark night of the soul”; it sounds similar to your current situation, and may bring you some comfort.
 
It seems the consensus of this thread is, “God wants you to be miserable and long for death.”
God does not will pain or suffering for its own sake. Actually, our Lord came and suffered in this world to put an end to all suffering in our next life. That was the ultimate goal of His suffering – to put an end to all suffering in the next life. If he lets you suffer now, He just wants you to understand that, and He is graciously giving you the opportunity to accomplish that same goal with Him.
I think Rom is simply mistaken (and the red text is difficult to read). He says Matthew 21:22 is an encouragement, not a promise. But read the text: If it was an encouragement as Rom says, Jesus would have said, “it can be done”, or “it may be done”. Instead, the translation reads – and check any authorized version you like – “it will be done.” It is a promise, not an encouragement.
OK I changed my text color to blue. Is that better? Actually, I find the black, yellow and purple difficult to read. But red or blue is OK. No offense. It is just me.

You are absolutely right. If you read the text all by itself, in isolation from the rest of the Scripture, that is really how you would read it. Indeed, this has been the pitfall of many protestants also who interpret the Bible based on isolated texts. For example, some protestants criticized us Catholics for making religious statues and images, saying that it was forbidden by Exodus 20:4-5, “Thou shalt not make to thyself a graven thing, nor the likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or in the earth beneath, nor of those things that are in the waters under the earth.” If you read that at face value, it would really sound like God prohibits the making and veneration, not only of statues of angels and saints, but also of images of any thing on earth! And the reason why we Catholics do not buy that interpretation is because it does not agree with the rest of the Scriptures. Read further, and you will see that King Solomon adorned his temple with engraved cherubim (angels), trees and flowers (3 Kings 6:23-29), as well as bronze oxen, lions and pomegranates (3 Kings 7:25-45). Was God displeased because Solomon adorned the temple with graven images? No. In fact, God approved the temple that Solomon built in His honor (3 Kings 9:1-3). [Note: Some editions of the Bible call the third and fourth book of Kings, 1 King and 2 King respectively. And they call the first and second book of Kings 1 Samuel and 2 Samuel respectively.]

So, Matthew 21:22 does read like a promise – and I agree with that. But in the light of what the other parts of Scripture say (especially the experience of King David and St. Paul), we know that the correct interpretation is that Christ’s words were an encouragement, not a promise, for faith alone is not sufficient.
To be frank, it seems more plausible to me that God does not exist at this point. How can I explain the historical narrative commonly explained by the Resurrection? I cannot, but that bothers me less than not being able to explain why a loving God would want us to live in misery. You are basically condoning child abuse. The only difference is that this Father should know better to the infinite degree, whereas human fathers who abuse their children have finite intellects, etc.
If God does not exist, then neither you nor your suffering would also exist. Your suffering demands God’s existence as much as your comfort.

The resurrection cannot be explained by science. Those who criticize us because we cannot explain the resurrection also have some heavy explaining to do. If the resurrection never occurred, how do you explain the faith of the early Christians? If Christ did not rise from the dead, how do you explain that they chose death rather than deny Christ during the ruthless Roman persecution?

It sounds like you are angry with God for letting you suffer. You even compare Him to one who is guilty of child abuse! Child molesters do it for their selfish purposes. God, on the other hand, lets you suffer on account of a greater good that lies ahead of you. You just need to trust Him.

I will pray for you. Peace.
 
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