Regarding the consecration

[Fergal]

I am just wondering.
At Holy Mass this morning we were invited to receive under both species which I know is a ‘fuller’ sign of of Communion and was encouraged by our Late Holy Father John Paul II.

1. When there are several chalices involved, must all but the principal chalice be fully prepared i.e. wine and water in situ before the Mass begins or must the water be added to each chalice including the main one just before the consecration?

2 Where must the chalices be positioned for the consecration to be effective or is it the desire of the Priest that effects the consecration regardless of their position on the Altar? I ask this becuse this morning the ‘extra’ chalices were on the periphery of the Altar and were not moved towards the centre for the consecration. They remained on the periphery of the Altar throughout the whole Mass up to Communion time.

1. Should all the chalices be of a precious durable material or can the extra ones be made from glazed pottery?

Many thanks in advance!!

 

[AJV]

I am just wondering.
At Holy Mass this morning we were invited to receive under both species which I know is a ‘fuller’ sign of of Communion and was encouraged by our Late Holy Father John Paul II.

1. When there are several chalices involved, must all but the principal chalice be fully prepared i.e. wine and water in situ before the Mass begins or must the water be added to each chalice including the main one just before the consecration?

2 Where must the chalices be positioned for the consecration to be effective or is it the desire of the Priest that effects the consecration regardless of their position on the Altar? I ask this becuse this morning the ‘extra’ chalices were on the periphery of the Altar and were not moved towards the centre for the consecration. They remained on the periphery of the Altar throughout the whole Mass up to Communion time.

1. Should all the chalices be of a precious durable material or can the extra ones be made from glazed pottery?

Many thanks in advance!!

Zenit has some of the answers to your questions on theirLiturgy page. (soory couldn’t figure out how to provide direct link)

The articles are:

1. Substituting the “Lamb of God” 2004-07-13 ] And More on Water With Wine
2. 2003-12-09 Communion Hosts at Papal Masses

and

Genuflections by Concelebrants 2005-06-21 ] And More on Leavened vs. Unleavened Bread

1. All. No idea whether Ireland has any special adaptations in this regard, but the GIRM specifies that all sacred vessels are to be made out of precious metals, be gilded inside and have nonabsorbent bowls. In the USA there is also provision for other noble and non breakable materials.

 

[tee_eff_em]

1. When there are several chalices involved, must all but the principal chalice be fully prepared i.e. wine and water in situ before the Mass begins or must the water be added to each chalice including the main one just before the consecration?

As I understand it, the water needs only be mixed in the principal chalice. The other chalices may so be prepared, but need not be.

2 Where must the chalices be positioned for the consecration to be effective or is it the desire of the Priest that effects the consecration regardless of their position on the Altar?

If the priest intends to consecrate the chalices, they may be placed anywhere. While the positioning of the vessels can be a visible sign of his intention, it is not a necessary sign.

1. Should all the chalices be of a precious durable material or can the extra ones be made from glazed pottery?

All of the vessels should conform to the norms.

tee

 

[kleary]

1. When there are several chalices involved, must all but the principal chalice be fully prepared i.e. wine and water in situ before the Mass begins or must the water be added to each chalice including the main one just before the consecration?

No. Water is added only to the priest’s chalice. This is done at the offertory.

2 Where must the chalices be positioned for the consecration to be effective or is it the desire of the Priest that effects the consecration regardless of their position on the Altar? I ask this becuse this morning the ‘extra’ chalices were on the periphery of the Altar and were not moved towards the centre for the consecration. They remained on the periphery of the Altar throughout the whole Mass up to Communion time.

The chalices and ciboria to be consecrated MUST be on the corporal. To the person who said otherwise please provide documentation to state they can be anywhere.

1. Should all the chalices be of a precious durable material or can the extra ones be made from glazed pottery?

The chalices and ciboria are to be made of material that is not easilly broken, like pottery or glass. There was some relaxation of this in the past to allow for Waterford Crystal chalices and chalices made of pottery but with the interior lined with gold or metal of some kind but that has been abrogated.

(It is a lot easier in the TLM- all vessels must be made of metal and the inside must be at least lined with gold)

Ken

 

[thistle]

I am just wondering.
At Holy Mass this morning we were invited to receive under both species which I know is a ‘fuller’ sign of of Communion and was encouraged by our Late Holy Father John Paul II.

1. When there are several chalices involved, must all but the principal chalice be fully prepared i.e. wine and water in situ before the Mass begins or must the water be added to each chalice including the main one just before the consecration?

2 Where must the chalices be positioned for the consecration to be effective or is it the desire of the Priest that effects the consecration regardless of their position on the Altar? I ask this becuse this morning the ‘extra’ chalices were on the periphery of the Altar and were not moved towards the centre for the consecration. They remained on the periphery of the Altar throughout the whole Mass up to Communion time.

1. Should all the chalices be of a precious durable material or can the extra ones be made from glazed pottery?

Many thanks in advance!!

Just curious. How is Communion fuller by receiving both species. When you receive the host only you are receiving the body, blood, soul and divinity of our Lord.
What’s missing that would be made “fuller” by also receiving from the chalice?

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

I am just wondering.
At Holy Mass this morning we were invited to receive under both species which I know is a ‘fuller’ sign of of Communion and was encouraged by our Late Holy Father John Paul II.

1. When there are several chalices involved, must all but the principal chalice be fully prepared i.e. wine and water in situ before the Mass begins or must the water be added to each chalice including the main one just before the consecration?

2 Where must the chalices be positioned for the consecration to be effective or is it the desire of the Priest that effects the consecration regardless of their position on the Altar? I ask this becuse this morning the ‘extra’ chalices were on the periphery of the Altar and were not moved towards the centre for the consecration. They remained on the periphery of the Altar throughout the whole Mass up to Communion time.

1. Should all the chalices be of a precious durable material or can the extra ones be made from glazed pottery?

Many thanks in advance!!

Water is only required to be aded to the main chalice, but it must be added at the altar.

They should be placed on the corporal, but that does not mean that they were not Consecrated if the priest did in fact intend to Consecrate them.

All must be of unbreakable material and at least lined with Gold.

 

[tee_eff_em]

The chalices and ciboria to be consecrated MUST be on the corporal. To the person who said otherwise please provide documentation to state they can be anywhere.

Is it sufficient to reference any of several articles by Fr McNamara at the Zenit site, as was done in an earlier message? eg “For a valid consecration it is sufficient that the priest be aware of the presence of the ciboria and have the intention of consecrating them or has a general intention of consecrating all that has been placed upon the altar for that purpose.” ([ 2005-06-21 ]](http://www.zenit.org/english/visualizza.phtml?sid=73000))

tee

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Just curious. How is Communion fuller by receiving both species. When you receive the host only you are receiving the body, blood, soul and divinity of our Lord.
What’s missing that would be made “fuller” by also receiving from the chalice?

You are not receiving any more of Christ by receiving under both forms. Receiving under both forms is a fuller exterior sign, because of what St. Paul said.

 

[tee_eff_em]

Just curious. How is Communion fuller by receiving both species. When you receive the host only you are receiving the body, blood, soul and divinity of our Lord.
What’s missing that would be made “fuller” by also receiving from the chalice?

The General Instruction of the Roman Missal says:

1. Holy Communion has a fuller form as a sign when it is distributed under both kinds. For in this form the sign of the eucharistic banquet is more clearly evident and clear expression is given to the divine will by which the new and eternal Covenant is ratified in the Blood of the Lord, as also the relationship between the Eucharistic banquet and the eschatological banquet in the Father’s Kingdom.

tee

 

[kleary]

Is it sufficient to reference any of several articles by Fr McNamara at the Zenit site, as was done in an earlier message? eg “For a valid consecration it is sufficient that the priest be aware of the presence of the ciboria and have the intention of consecrating them or has a general intention of consecrating all that has been placed upon the altar for that purpose.” ([ 2005-06-21 ]](http://www.zenit.org/english/visualizza.phtml?sid=73000))

tee

I did not doubt the validity of the consecration, just rubrics. I come from a TLM parish and it is in the rubrics for the 1962 Missal that the host and chalice MUST be on the corporal in order to be consecrated.

Ken

 

[tee_eff_em]

2 Where must the chalices be positioned for the consecration to be effective or is it the desire of the Priest that effects the consecration regardless of their position on the Altar?

I did not doubt the validity of the consecration, just rubrics. I come from a TLM parish and it is in the rubrics for the 1962 Missal that the host and chalice MUST be on the corporal in order to be consecrated.

Then I trust you can understand my confusion? The OP did not seem (to me) to describe a TLM (I don’t believe I’ve ever attended one utilizing multiple chalices?), and asked about the efficacy of the consecration.

The former GIRM did explicitly call for placing the vessels on the corporal, but the current GIRM does not. That should answer the question.

tee

 

[tee_eff_em]

The former GIRM did explicitly call for placing the vessels on the corporal, but the current GIRM does not.

I’d meant to add: Even then: I do not believe violating the rubrics by failing to place the vessels on the corporal would have altered the validity/efficacy of the sacrament.

tee