C
cheese_sdc
Guest
Sure.
- Status
L
Lifeisawesome
Guest
Thanks for your willingness…
Given the logic regarding conscience - if one who holds this view would disagree say with the Trinity but in good conscience - they could then disagree with the magisterium without any negative consequence to the state of their soul?
Essentially, conscience trumps the magisterium given the right set of circumstances as indicated?
Given the logic regarding conscience - if one who holds this view would disagree say with the Trinity but in good conscience - they could then disagree with the magisterium without any negative consequence to the state of their soul?
Essentially, conscience trumps the magisterium given the right set of circumstances as indicated?
C
cheese_sdc
Guest
Gaudium et Spes:
- In the depths of his conscience, man detects a law which he does not impose upon himself, but which holds him to obedience. Always summoning him to love good and avoid evil, the voice of conscience when necessary speaks to his heart: do this, shun that. For man has in his heart a law written by God; to obey it is the very dignity of man; according to it he will be judged.(9) Conscience is the most secret core and sanctuary of a man. There he is alone with God, Whose voice echoes in his depths.
L
Lifeisawesome
Guest
Yes - I am familiar with that passage from GES. Tired of this yet? I won’t be offended if you say “yes” - in fact, you can reply with a “go away” command and I will likely do so…
C
cheese_sdc
Guest
You have another question?
S
Snerticus
Guest
Still, do be careful. In your instance Satan was blatant about letting himself or his minions become detected by you in some way. More often than not in today’s world, he’s more subtle and hardly perceptible in our day to day lives. In fact, I have trouble percieving evil influences usually until it’s too late.
So please be careful - we’re not saying these things because we want to push our beliefs on you, but because we genuinely care about your well being.
God Bless,
Snert
C
cheese_sdc
Guest
I do not pretend to understand everything about the metaphysical which surrounds us. I just try to muddle through as best I can. I know that I understand more now than I did a few years ago, but I’m still like a blind baby in a zoo.
All I can go with is what I know to be good and true.
And I appreciate y’alls concern for my well being.
L
Lifeisawesome
Guest
Here’s GES 50
Married people should realize that in their behaviour they may not simply follow their own fancy but must be ruled by conscience- and conscience ought to be conformed to the law of God in the light of the teaching authority of the Church, which is the authentic interpreter of divine law. For the divine law throws light on the meaning of married love, protects it and leads it to truly human fulfillment.
The key is, what did the Church mean by the section you quoted? This is one of the passages that reveals the key. The standard of measure of all matters of conscience is the magisterium (ordinary - as with local bishops in the case of Reiki, or extraordinary as with universal declarations such as the ex-cathedra pronouncements). Either way, we know if our conscience is properly formed as we test it against the teachings of the Church…
Married people should realize that in their behaviour they may not simply follow their own fancy but must be ruled by conscience- and conscience ought to be conformed to the law of God in the light of the teaching authority of the Church, which is the authentic interpreter of divine law. For the divine law throws light on the meaning of married love, protects it and leads it to truly human fulfillment.
The key is, what did the Church mean by the section you quoted? This is one of the passages that reveals the key. The standard of measure of all matters of conscience is the magisterium (ordinary - as with local bishops in the case of Reiki, or extraordinary as with universal declarations such as the ex-cathedra pronouncements). Either way, we know if our conscience is properly formed as we test it against the teachings of the Church…
L
Lifeisawesome
Guest
Your appreciation is appreciated by the way…
L
Lifeisawesome
Guest
Sorry - one and I promise that I might shut up 
This like provides a fantastic treatment of the topic of conscience…
zenit.org/article-19058?l=english
This like provides a fantastic treatment of the topic of conscience…
zenit.org/article-19058?l=english
S
Shin
Guest
I know a former not solid Christian girl, she broke up with her boyfriend and went through a traumatic time in her life. Then she had a dream of some mystic holy man beckoning her to come someplace… She saw him quite clearly.
She was still desperate after all this, and she wanted to get out and go anywhere. Vulnerable, broken, her whole life had fallen apart. Somehow she thought she had to go to the airport, so she went there… there she saw a person who looked mysteriously like the holy man in her dreams!
He even said the words she had heard in her dream to her!
She joined with him and his group, had more dreams, and eventually began praying and learning their rituals. She feels the warmth and love of their god in her prayers and their dances. Now she desires every day to bathe in the love of her god, Krishna, and feel his warmth. She’s a Hare Krishna.
Feels good. Appears to have good effect on your interior life.
Does NOT equal good.
I wrote to her and told her that she was becoming a medium for this spiritual force, and that she needed not to do that, and to give it up. She would learn a lot from giving it up, from putting it away from her.
But what I had to say was no good and she told me plainly not to contact her anymore – so I respected her wishes and left. Said she wanted to be a medium for Krishna.
Take some special intervention or something truly bad happening to shake her out of it I think. Didn’t seem like she was in a place where she could listen to what anyone had to say.
The witches by the way do the exact same thing as the Krishnas. They travel in a dream themselves, or send a demon, to contact whom they wish to seduce. Whoever it is feels wonderful. Could be a potential boyfriend – that’s very popular, always a potential recruit or victim.
I remember the group of people involved in Reiki I got in touch with. A bunch of women (of course), warm as nice as could be if a little funny, who liked to talk about fairies and elves as well as healing energy. And another lady a ‘devout Catholic’ who liked bells, and smells, and radiated peace and happiness, and insisted on a trade for her ‘Reiki attunement’. That was very important, there had to be -some- sort of trade.
Spells. Rituals. Magic. Occult… Hare Krishnas… Witches… New Age… The names always change… what it is remains the same.
Something you’re not allowed to do, that breaks a Commandment, and something which God departs from rather than stays with you with. You get a spirit, yes, but it is the wrong one. It makes you happy yes, but in a dependent way you can’t do without. The effects seem good, but are also mysteriously flawed and bad in ways you don’t notice. You become used… for something… to hurt others… and yourself… as long as your useful it may be more the former than you obviously…
I know what it is to be involved in spiritual warfare, because I have been my whole life. Since I was a child… didn’t get a break there. That’s how it’s been for me, so I’ve walked that road you’ve been on too, a good portion of it. I know how it is to not want to fight any more, to give it up and give in. To stop resisting the pressing passions or thoughts. To just let it -in- instead of keep it -out-.
You don’t. You resist. You do the best you can, and do your best to keep yourself in the best shape you can, somedays that’s good somedays it’s not so good.
My friend, you let it -in-, however -good- it -feels-, you’ve lost, and it guides you around like a pig with a ring in its nose. You’re happy, it leads you to the trough, but if you try to pull away, you’ll feel a pain and it won’t let you.
I’m telling you, you laughed about my saying just give it up for a time… But the only way you could ever get away with giving it up for a time is if it knew you were just waiting, waiting, to start again and it just had to keep quiet until then. These things are intelligent.
If you were fighting a modern military war with intelligence and counter intelligence, covert agents, double, triple agents, and operations designed by polymaths and geniuses… you would have nothing on these enemies, who know you in ways you don’t know you.
That’s why, while you are supposed to fight with force and incensive force, that is anger, disgust, and the negative, as well as with the positive, yes you don’t just do the former, you -do- do the latter too, the devil’s in extremes after all – but the positive has to be the right positive… it can’t be the positive from the spiritual force you’re trying to reject. If it gets in through that door… that’s it my friend, it’s got you.
I’ll tell it to you straight – I don’t know why you left the Church, but this is the sort of thing that takes you out and gives you an intellectual blindness to keep you out.
I’ll tell it to you straight – You’re a candidate for exorcism. It’s not just for the spinning head movie people. If the Church weren’t falling apart right now, they’d be doing it everywhere, as a preventative measure, like aspirin – because it’s as harmless as that to do it. So it is harder to find, takes a bit of work, but it isn’t so hard you can’t have it done. All you do is get a priest working for you to help you get ahold of one, and get it done. There’ll be some resistance naturally, but it’s worthwhile.
Church will always be there, falling apart or shining, and it’s the only place to be because it’s the spiritual reality. Really isn’t any choice about it, just like with math. No place else to go, and you shouldn’t want to.
So I’m telling you, renounce the Reiki, confess it thoroughly, properly, and get it away from your family, and come on home my friend. Christ is here. It’s a tough road but it’s ultimately the only -real- easy one. Well.
Come on home.
That’s what I have to say, for what it’s worth. Benedice I pray.
She was still desperate after all this, and she wanted to get out and go anywhere. Vulnerable, broken, her whole life had fallen apart. Somehow she thought she had to go to the airport, so she went there… there she saw a person who looked mysteriously like the holy man in her dreams!
He even said the words she had heard in her dream to her!
She joined with him and his group, had more dreams, and eventually began praying and learning their rituals. She feels the warmth and love of their god in her prayers and their dances. Now she desires every day to bathe in the love of her god, Krishna, and feel his warmth. She’s a Hare Krishna.
Feels good. Appears to have good effect on your interior life.
Does NOT equal good.
I wrote to her and told her that she was becoming a medium for this spiritual force, and that she needed not to do that, and to give it up. She would learn a lot from giving it up, from putting it away from her.
But what I had to say was no good and she told me plainly not to contact her anymore – so I respected her wishes and left. Said she wanted to be a medium for Krishna.
Take some special intervention or something truly bad happening to shake her out of it I think. Didn’t seem like she was in a place where she could listen to what anyone had to say.
The witches by the way do the exact same thing as the Krishnas. They travel in a dream themselves, or send a demon, to contact whom they wish to seduce. Whoever it is feels wonderful. Could be a potential boyfriend – that’s very popular, always a potential recruit or victim.
I remember the group of people involved in Reiki I got in touch with. A bunch of women (of course), warm as nice as could be if a little funny, who liked to talk about fairies and elves as well as healing energy. And another lady a ‘devout Catholic’ who liked bells, and smells, and radiated peace and happiness, and insisted on a trade for her ‘Reiki attunement’. That was very important, there had to be -some- sort of trade.
Spells. Rituals. Magic. Occult… Hare Krishnas… Witches… New Age… The names always change… what it is remains the same.
Something you’re not allowed to do, that breaks a Commandment, and something which God departs from rather than stays with you with. You get a spirit, yes, but it is the wrong one. It makes you happy yes, but in a dependent way you can’t do without. The effects seem good, but are also mysteriously flawed and bad in ways you don’t notice. You become used… for something… to hurt others… and yourself… as long as your useful it may be more the former than you obviously…
I know what it is to be involved in spiritual warfare, because I have been my whole life. Since I was a child… didn’t get a break there. That’s how it’s been for me, so I’ve walked that road you’ve been on too, a good portion of it. I know how it is to not want to fight any more, to give it up and give in. To stop resisting the pressing passions or thoughts. To just let it -in- instead of keep it -out-.
You don’t. You resist. You do the best you can, and do your best to keep yourself in the best shape you can, somedays that’s good somedays it’s not so good.
My friend, you let it -in-, however -good- it -feels-, you’ve lost, and it guides you around like a pig with a ring in its nose. You’re happy, it leads you to the trough, but if you try to pull away, you’ll feel a pain and it won’t let you.
I’m telling you, you laughed about my saying just give it up for a time… But the only way you could ever get away with giving it up for a time is if it knew you were just waiting, waiting, to start again and it just had to keep quiet until then. These things are intelligent.
If you were fighting a modern military war with intelligence and counter intelligence, covert agents, double, triple agents, and operations designed by polymaths and geniuses… you would have nothing on these enemies, who know you in ways you don’t know you.
That’s why, while you are supposed to fight with force and incensive force, that is anger, disgust, and the negative, as well as with the positive, yes you don’t just do the former, you -do- do the latter too, the devil’s in extremes after all – but the positive has to be the right positive… it can’t be the positive from the spiritual force you’re trying to reject. If it gets in through that door… that’s it my friend, it’s got you.
I’ll tell it to you straight – I don’t know why you left the Church, but this is the sort of thing that takes you out and gives you an intellectual blindness to keep you out.
I’ll tell it to you straight – You’re a candidate for exorcism. It’s not just for the spinning head movie people. If the Church weren’t falling apart right now, they’d be doing it everywhere, as a preventative measure, like aspirin – because it’s as harmless as that to do it. So it is harder to find, takes a bit of work, but it isn’t so hard you can’t have it done. All you do is get a priest working for you to help you get ahold of one, and get it done. There’ll be some resistance naturally, but it’s worthwhile.
Church will always be there, falling apart or shining, and it’s the only place to be because it’s the spiritual reality. Really isn’t any choice about it, just like with math. No place else to go, and you shouldn’t want to.
So I’m telling you, renounce the Reiki, confess it thoroughly, properly, and get it away from your family, and come on home my friend. Christ is here. It’s a tough road but it’s ultimately the only -real- easy one. Well.
Come on home.
That’s what I have to say, for what it’s worth. Benedice I pray.
C
cheese_sdc
Guest
One thing that has always (even in my seminary years) was the mixed message that the Church gives about conscience. In one instance the Church says that a person has complete freedom to follow their conscience. Indeed, I thought that the passage “For man has in his heart a law written by God; to obey it is the very dignity of man; according to it he will be judged.” is powerful. A person will be judged according to their conscience - that is giving complete freedom and responsibility to people.
And the libertarian in me applauds that.
But then, there is the message, much like an anxious parent, “But you’re conscience is only correct if you do what I tell you to do!”.
Sorry guys, to my thinking, it is one way or the other. If I tell my daughter that she can do whatever she wants, but then punish her when she does something I don’t want her to do, I will turn her into a nervous wreck.
The Church has some extraordinarily beautiful things going for it. The sacraments, sacramentals, a theology which embraces the physical world, and a sense of compassion. Nostra Aetate is one of the most incredible religious writings I’ve had the priviledge to study. Imagine, one of the world’s religions saying that “a ray of Truth” illuminates all religions. That is powerful! And It is those things which will win people over to it, not a religious Nanny State with the bishops as Daddy.
The idea of the Eucharist - God becomes our very food? Geez, that is pure poetry. And couple that with the idea that “you are what you eat” - to share, it whatever limited way, in Divinity. Those are the things that keep people catholic and bring them into the Church. Not exorcisms and the magistrium.
I used to absolutely hate it when a parish would start pushing for Eucharistic Adoration, not because of any animosity toward the Blessed Sacrament, but because invariably the advertising pitch would consist of the the scripture verse, “Could you not wait one hour with me…” I’d literally pull my hair out - here Catholics have a chance to experience one of the great spiritual gifts in history, and the best advertising hook they can do is guilt!!! Come on. There are so many more hooks to use, but Catholics gotta go for the guilt.
Sorry, I rambled a bit in my rant.
C
cheese_sdc
Guest
I’ve been thinking about the lack of response to my last post. And I wonder if it doesn’t illustrate the weakness of conservative Catholicism (as practiced and advocated here). It seems that there were two arguments - one from authority (the bishops said it!) and one from fear (the devil will get you!).
When those two arguments were rejected then there was nothing. Is that all there is to Catholicism apologetic debate? Authority and fear?
When those two arguments were rejected then there was nothing. Is that all there is to Catholicism apologetic debate? Authority and fear?
S
Snerticus
Guest
Personally, I just think the subject fizzled out, like all the threads do here. Perhaps, though, to renew your views and spur debate, you should start a new thread in another category. Probably many see the word ‘reiki’ and won’t view the thread to see your comments. But when you start a new one, they will become interested in that particular topic and most likely others who would otherwise skip over this particular thread will join in.
God Bless,
Snert
C
cheese_sdc
Guest
Good point.
C
cymonk
Guest
I might be willing to engage you on the some of these conscience questions if you are still interested (though I am a bit ametuer on some parts of my catechism).One thing that has always (even in my seminary years) was the mixed message that the Church gives about conscience. In one instance the Church says that a person has complete freedom to follow their conscience. Indeed, I thought that the passage “For man has in his heart a law written by God; to obey it is the very dignity of man; according to it he will be judged.” is powerful. A person will be judged according to their conscience - that is giving complete freedom and responsibility to people.
And the libertarian in me applauds that.
But then, there is the message, much like an anxious parent, “But you’re conscience is only correct if you do what I tell you to do!”.
Sorry guys, to my thinking, it is one way or the other. If I tell my daughter that she can do whatever she wants, but then punish her when she does something I don’t want her to do, I will turn her into a nervous wreck.
The Church has some extraordinarily beautiful things going for it. The sacraments, sacramentals, a theology which embraces the physical world, and a sense of compassion. Nostra Aetate is one of the most incredible religious writings I’ve had the priviledge to study. Imagine, one of the world’s religions saying that “a ray of Truth” illuminates all religions. That is powerful! And It is those things which will win people over to it, not a religious Nanny State with the bishops as Daddy.
The idea of the Eucharist - God becomes our very food? Geez, that is pure poetry. And couple that with the idea that “you are what you eat” - to share, it whatever limited way, in Divinity. Those are the things that keep people catholic and bring them into the Church. Not exorcisms and the magistrium.
I used to absolutely hate it when a parish would start pushing for Eucharistic Adoration, not because of any animosity toward the Blessed Sacrament, but because invariably the advertising pitch would consist of the the scripture verse, “Could you not wait one hour with me…” I’d literally pull my hair out - here Catholics have a chance to experience one of the great spiritual gifts in history, and the best advertising hook they can do is guilt!!! Come on. There are so many more hooks to use, but Catholics gotta go for the guilt.
Sorry, I rambled a bit in my rant.
L
Lifeisawesome
Guest
Another accurate treatment of the issue ncregister.com/daily/enough_with_reiki_retreats
L
LynnGM
Guest
I haven’t been to the Forums in awhile, so this thread is a new discovery.
I am a former New Age-r and “fluffy bunny” Wiccan. Yes, I was interested in reiki, mostly at the suggestion of the cashier at a local New Age store. She convinced me to buy a reiki manual. And I did. I read some of it before realizing it was evil.
What freaked me out most was all the precautions a practitioner must take. And the warnings that the practitioner could get gastric distress or other side effects from the client’s energies.
The whole idea of energy bothered me. I felt it, in my gut, that this energy could be harmful. I didn’t even want the manual in my house.
I am a former New Age-r and “fluffy bunny” Wiccan. Yes, I was interested in reiki, mostly at the suggestion of the cashier at a local New Age store. She convinced me to buy a reiki manual. And I did. I read some of it before realizing it was evil.
What freaked me out most was all the precautions a practitioner must take. And the warnings that the practitioner could get gastric distress or other side effects from the client’s energies.
The whole idea of energy bothered me. I felt it, in my gut, that this energy could be harmful. I didn’t even want the manual in my house.
- Status