Reincarnation among Catholics?

[antiaphrodite]

i don’t believe in reincarnation.

 

[John_Russell_Jr]

twagler:

John,
bibletopics.com/biblestudy/71.htm

Hi,
Was this meant for me? I will reply anyway. The popes have sometimes been bad. Church officials have made mistakes. They are sinners too. The Pope is only imbued with the gift of infallibility when speaking on faith and morals. He , like St Peter, is a sinner. And aren’t we all. When you read the history of the Catholic Church you begin to understand what a miracle it is that it has survived for 1971 yrs. And you learn the truth about infallibility. Can you prove otherwise?
Gallileo was unjustly treated. The Church should stay out of science, and vise versa. The Church should only intervene on moral grounds when it comes to science. The Church knows this only too well. It’s not the Church’s role to explain/ condone/ deny etc scientific facts or theories unless they are clearly immoral.
With the inquisitions, the hierarchy of the Church made mistakes. But you need to note that Church and state have not always been separated. And heretics were considered guilty of treason against the state. That’s why the Church insists on separation of Church and state.
The Church is made up of sinners. But the Holy Spirit protects Her from errors on faith and morals. That is miraculous.

 

[TobyLue]

No reincarnation cuz how will I know I have been reincarnated? Heck, I may wind up as a dung beatle. Or a maggot feasting on a road kill. Oh, and also no time traveling. No going back and going forwards in time. Cuz if I were to go back in time, would I be young again, or be at current age? If I go back in time, will I be able to talk to the other me? If so will I be two persons, with two souls and if by accident both die at the same time, will there be a possibility that I can go to heaven and hell at the same time.
Such nonsense.:whacky:

 

[Ann_Cheryl]

John Russell Jr:

Hi,
Was this meant for me? I will reply anyway. The popes have sometimes been bad. Church officials have made mistakes. They are sinners too. The Pope is only imbued with the gift of infallibility when speaking on faith and morals. He , like St Peter, is a sinner. And aren’t we all. When you read the history of the Catholic Church you begin to understand what a miracle it is that it has survived for 1971 yrs. And you learn the truth about infallibility. Can you prove otherwise?
Gallileo was unjustly treated. The Church should stay out of science, and vise versa. The Church should only intervene on moral grounds when it comes to science. The Church knows this only too well. It’s not the Church’s role to explain/ condone/ deny etc scientific facts or theories unless they are clearly immoral.
With the inquisitions, the hierarchy of the Church made mistakes. But you need to note that Church and state have not always been separated. And heretics were considered guilty of treason against the state. That’s why the Church insists on separation of Church and state.
The Church is made up of sinners. But the Holy Spirit protects Her from errors on faith and morals. That is miraculous.

The web site is totally inacurate. The Pope did not apologes for the Church but for members of the Church. Gallileo was not condemned because his teachings clashed with the bible but that he would not call them theories which at the time that is all they were.

 

[John_Russell_Jr]

Ann Cheryl:

The web site is totally inacurate. The Pope did not apologes for the Church but for members of the Church. Gallileo was not condemned because his teachings clashed with the bible but that he would not call them theories which at the time that is all they were.

You are quite right Ann. God bless.

 

[rastell]

wisdom 3:5:

Straight from the Bible:

“And just as it is appointed for mortals to die once…” Heb 9:27

**The only thing that’s reincarnated is the belief in reincarnation! It is another way to equate human life and animal life, with the result that the value of human life is diminished. **

One example: If one believes that a person can come back as a dog, and it is okay to euthanize a dog, then it is okay to euthananize a human being. It is a perfect partner to the anti-life movement.

 

[John_Russell_Jr]

From the catechism. CCC.
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Catechism of the Catholic Church

**1013 **Death is the end of man’s earthly pilgrimage, of the time of grace and mercy which God offers him so as to work out his earthly life in keeping with the divine plan, and to decide his ultimate destiny. When “the single course of our earthly life” is completed, we shall not return to other earthly lives: “It is appointed for men to die once.” There is no “reincarnation” after death.

» Enter the CCC at this paragraph
» CCC Table of Contents
» CCC Index
» St. Charles Borromeo Home

 

[4_marks]

Who among us remembers what it was like before we were born? Nobody? Good. That is exactly what it will probably be like after we die. We won’t remember a thing. The Bible says “the dead know nothing.” You only have one life to live, so live it to the full. Do good, avoid evil, remember God…for this is the whole duty of a man.

Why does one follow Jesus Christ in the first place? To reap a reward of some sort for our self-sacrifice? Just for kicks and giggles? Or is it out of love…love of Jesus Christ, our Father God, the Holy Spirit of God? Love of self and others? Love of life?

 

[Ignatius]

I believe that no 1 is the answer, but I selected all of them because you allowed multiple choices. So, to get the correct answer, delete 1 from the other categories.

 

[Ahimsa]

Just to clarify what someone else said about Judaism and reincarnation: apparently, reincarnation is in fact an element of Jewish teaching.

See torah.org/learning/ramchal/classes/wog2-3-10.html

aish.com/literacy/concepts/Reincarnation_and_Jewish_Tradition.asp

judaism.com/display.asp?etn=BIHAD

 

[avemaria92]

twagler:

Could it be that Jesus did not lecture on reincarnation because the disciples already knew it to be true? Follow me on this one.

If the man was blind FROM HIS BIRTH, how could he possibly have sinned to cause his blindness? Notice what Jesus says “Neither he hath sinned, nor his parents.” He did not ask the disciples the obvious question that I just did. I think the disciples response proves they believed in reincarnation. When else could the man have sinned?

no it’s not possible… the man was considered a sinner because all of us at birth inherit the sin of adam and eve… original sin… even if he did nothing wrong, thanks to original sin, he inherits all the good stuff resulting from it… in his case, blindness from birth.

First Claim: The Man Born Blind

John 9:1: And as he was passing by, he saw a man blind from birth. And his disciples asked him, “Rabbi, who has sinned, this man or his parents, that he should be born blind?” Jesus answered, “Neither has this man sinned, nor has his parents, but the works of God were to be made manifest in him.”

Why would the disciples ask Jesus if the cause of this man’s blindness was due to sin if the man was born blind?? It seems that reincarnation could have been the general belief.

RESPONSE:

i) One could just as easily ask: why did they ask if the man’s blindness due to his parents’ sin, if they DID believe in reincarnation? This would be an odd thing to ask, if they held to a belief in reincarnation.

ii) Exodus 20:5:“I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me” . See also Exodus 34:7; Numbers 14:18; Deuteronomy 5:9.

iii) Even if reincarnation WAS a general belief, this certainly does not prove it’s truth. After all, they also thought that Jesus was going to be a great political ruler (**Acts 1:6: ** So when they met together, they asked him, “Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?”)

 

[cleopa]

Apologia100:

Ditto, Jesus came to save the “lost sheep of Israel”. Reincarnation was never a part of Jewish theology. Therefore, why would Jesus mention it.

Incorrect. Reincarnation was and is a part of Jewish theology. The Jews believe that a soul descends to this world from “beneath the throne of glory”—a place much higher than the highest angels—to accomplish its mission in this physical world. After the allotted time, the soul returns to be judged. The soul may need to be cleansed in gehinom. But eventually, it is able to reap its reward, which is to experience the Divine light generated through all of the soul’s good deeds.

But usually the entire mission of that soul does not get accomplished in a single lifetime. There may also be some mess that needs to be fixed up, left over from a previous life. So that aspect of the soul that still needs completion must return. And so, souls return again and again, until their job is complete. According to the Orthodox Jews, almost all souls that come here now are returnees.

Eventually, all souls will return in the resurrection of the dead at the end of days. Then we will all receive the complete reward of experiencing the luminous and beautiful world we have all built through the sum of all our good deeds.

~cleopa

 

[Nun_ofthe_Above]

I didn’t vote, but I believe the first to be the best option; which, considering my varying views in the past 34 years, is quite remarkable. Isn’t it amazing what a little reading can do for one’s perspective? Until I started really reading the bible and reading the Church Fathers, I was rummaging about in the dark, making up things as I went along, essentially. It is wonderful to have some idea of what is truly in store, instead of theorizing the possibility of reincarnation, etc.

I stumbled across this website today, which you may be interested in. cin.org/users/jgallegos/eschat.htm

Peace be with you

 

[Philthy]

Ahimsa:

But could “once” be understood symbolically, or non-literally? Did Jesus himself ever speak on this issue?

Hebrews 9:27 Just as it is appointed that all humans die once and after this the judgement.

Your question lacks a reference point. Of course “once” could be interpreted “symbolically” - but that’s not the question at hand. The question is, “Is it reasonable to believe that Paul could have been speaking “symbolically” or non-literaly in this exchange?” Is such an interpretation mutually exclusive with an understand of divine revelation as revealed through His Church (reference point)? The answers are that Paul did not appear to be speaking figuratively and that such an interpretation is mutually exclusive with Church teaching and so it must be rejected by the faithful. Everyone else is allowed to think whatever they please (no reference point).

Could you please explain what you mean by a “symbolic” interpretation of “once”? I’m struggling with separating once from it’s numerical equivalent, one…

Phil

 

[MarilynIN]

It was common in ancient times that anyone with a disability was thought to have either sinned to bring that upon themselves, or as was pointed out, was suffering the effects of a sin brought on by their fathers. That doesn’t prove that Jesus believed in reincarnation. According to the Apostle’s Creed, “I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Catholic Church, the Communion of Saints, the forgiveness of sins, the Resurrection of the Body and Life Everlasting”. That about sums up the Church’s position: The Resurrection of THE body. Not of all the bodies. There is no plural there. One body will be resurrected. Period. There aren’t multiple bodies that would be caste aside as mere shells and tools used in the soul’s journey to reach God. The Almighty had more regard for His creation of humans rather than to let them live on in one body after the other. Each body is unique and to be respected as being a part of one human soul alone. They are inseparable.

There is a beginning to the soul, but no end. To accept the concept of reincarnation is to reject the Church’s teaching that there is no pre-existence of souls and to do so is to diminish the importance of the individual mortal.

As for Jews believing in reincarnation, many reject that possibility. It was never an accepted official dogma of Judaism. Kabbalists and some Orthodox Jews believe in reincarnation some Orthodox or other branches of Judaism do not. Interestingly, some Jews of years past also believed there was no afterlife, period. Also very interesting, little emphasis is put on the state or journey of the soul after death. The most important aspect of Judaism is belief in God and living as God wishes here while on earth rather than the final outcome after death. Judaism doesn’t totally deny it, but it isn’t a prime focus, either.

Judaism is a lifestyle-based rather than a dogma-driven religion. It’s a hard concept to understand, but as such helps to explain the wide disparity of beliefs in the state of the soul and its journey to the afterlife. So, to cite several Jewish tracts as being dogmatic and definitive in backing up an argument for reincarnation and that Christ may have held a belief in it or to assume that He or all other Jews of His time believed in it as well is presumptious. The simple fact is that it wasn’t and still isn’t important to Judaism and its followers. Belief in God and His Commandments while here on Earth is.

 

[grammyof3]

There are those who say that several Saints believed in reincarnation such as Gregory and Jerome. Even if the early church did believe in reincarnation it was decided by the Church fathers early on that it was not in a person’s best interest to believe that he had more than one chance to get it right.

 

[Wildgraywolf]

Nope, we get it right the first time in this lifetime.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Ahimsa:

I’m non-Catholic, but curious as to how Catholics in the pews view the idea of reincarnation. I know reincarnation is officially not part of Catholic tradition, but I’ve found in this forum that Catholics are just as diverse – if not more diverse – than those dreaded Protestants.

We’re certainly diverse ​

As to reincarnation - the problem with it, is that doesn’t really fit with belief in judgement at the end of one’s life; no matter how much one might try to make a place for it.

I don’t have a problem with the notion of human pre-existence - I don’t believe it myself (I don’t know anyone claiming to be Christian who does) but I don’t think it is as much of a difficulty to the “mere Christian” POV (or to a specifically “Papist” one) as reincarnation.

I do sometime wonder whether there is a common stock of religious ideas - purgation, hell, gods as avatars of greater gods, one god as many and many as aspects of one unique deity, fasting, ecstasy, poverty, salvation, sin, etc.,etc., etc., - because a lot of ideas & things do seem to turn up in some surprising guises and in unlikely places.

But that doesn’t answer your question ##

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Ahimsa:

I’m non-Catholic, but curious as to how Catholics in the pews view the idea of reincarnation. I know reincarnation is officially not part of Catholic tradition, but I’ve found in this forum that Catholics are just as diverse – if not more diverse – than those dreaded Protestants.

We’re certainly diverse ​

As to reincarnation - the problem with it, is that doesn’t really fit with belief in judgement at the end of one’s life; no matter how much one might try to make a place for it.

I don’t have a problem with the notion of human pre-existence - I don’t believe it myself (I don’t know anyone claiming to be Christian who does) but I don’t think it is as much of a difficulty to the “mere Christian” POV (or to a specifically “Papist” one) as reincarnation.

I do sometimes wonder whether there is a common stock of religious ideas - purgation, hell, gods as avatars of greater gods, one god as many and many as aspects of one unique deity, fasting, ecstasy, poverty, salvation, sin, etc.,etc., etc., - because a lot of ideas & things do seem to turn up in some surprising guises and in unlikely places.

But that doesn’t answer your question ##

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Ahimsa:

Concerning the Catechism’s teachings rejecting reincarnation, is that dogma, or doctrine?

To misquote:​

My Dogma Chewed Up Your Karma ##