Reincarnation

[Champion_Havoc]

Oh noes, I didn’t see that you said insects. :x

Well,they are extinct anyhow,and I think they were pretty huge in numbers in the early days too.

 

[Catholic_Dude]

There are over 10,000 known species of ants. Some kinds of ants have 700,000 members in just one colony. But who is to say how many ants there were thousands of years ago? A lot of species of animals have gone extinct too.

To disprove reincarnation based just on numbers of living things would be pretty hard I’d think. You have to know about every species of every creature and how many there were then and how many now. And how do we know there wasn’t some other kind of insect that used to have numbers way larger than ants that since went extinct?

I guess there isnt much to argue here, but you just opened another can of worms. I wonder how these people view the concept of going extinct. If humans went extinct then there goes quite a bit of their theology considering animals cannot pass on the faith.

 

[Syele]

I guess there isnt much to argue here, but you just opened another can of worms. I wonder how these people view the concept of going extinct. If humans went extinct then there goes quite a bit of their theology considering animals cannot pass on the faith.

Well I guess humans going extinct would pretty much end it there… but wouldn’t that have the same result for all religions?

 

[Catholic_Dude]

Well I guess humans going extinct would pretty much end it there… but wouldn’t that have the same result for all religions?

Not all religions allow non-humans to take part. If you can be reincarnated in an animal then that is a very different story

 

[Ceil-1]

You are referring to transmigration, not reincarnation. As far as I know, that is only a Hindu belief. Reincarnation involves strictly human souls. The New Age and Occult beliefs invlolve human souls only.

If we’re supposed to be evolving, we’re failing miserably. There are more poor, oppressed, and, for that matter, depraved people than ever. That is one of the main things that convinced me it was all bogus.

 

[PhilVaz]

Ceil << As far as I know, that is only a Hindu belief. Reincarnation involves strictly human souls. The New Age and Occult beliefs invlolve human souls only. >>

That’s what I understood too. "Transmigration of souls" is the full Hindu belief, and there you can come back as a cockroach. The “popularized” idea of reincarnation involves only human souls.

But perhaps my math is wrong. Maybe it is OK so long as the total amount of people who have died in the past is larger than those alive at this moment.

For example, while the world population has six-tupled since 1800 (1 billion vs. 6 billion plus), perhaps the TOTAL number of people who have DIED BEFORE 1800 is more than 6 billion. Maybe that’s wrong. I need to see some data and graphs or something.

I know the total number of animals who have lived and died in the past is much larger than those alive today, since about 99% of all species have gone extinct. I think that’s right.

Phil P

 

[zmyr88]

2011 = 7 billion souls (estimated)
1999 = 6 billion souls
1927 = 2 billion souls
1804 = 1 billion souls

Only 1/3 of the people living today could have lived on or before 1927. Only 1/6 on or before 1804, etc.
Phil P

Problem solved here’s your answer:

1:5 Before I formed you in the belly I knew you, and before you came forth out of the womb I sanctified you; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations. (catholic.org/bible/book.php?id=24)

Pre-existence of souls/ new ones being made, only some might be reincarnating, or not all the souls are in body form, yet and when that happens “christ comes” “worlds ends” “alignment & rising to next vibrational energy” etc. what ever you believe happens “at the end” (note all generally refer to the same time period just slightly diff. results)
good here, or need more?

 

[zmyr88]

here’s one option of reincarnation that satisfy both the psychics and the Christians. its long , but you will enjoy!

Now if any read a good psychology text book, you should remember Freud, and is three states of consciousness, ID- EGO - SUPEREGO. along with normal consciousness.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ego,_super-ego,_and_id (for brush up)
also no psychologist has said this yet but i think that the id, ego, superego is NOT preprogrammed. it becomes programed early in life (birth to 6). recall Freud and his levels of psychosexual development. (heres where!) (brush up on en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychosexual_development) NOTE that these (according to freud) can be fixed once set. ( I think they can & DO during a past life reading and programming)

When you past life regress some one you are doing a very very deep state of hypnosis, and memory recall. when you are that deep you are bypassing the barrier on the conscious/subconscious completely and you are accessing the id, super ego, and ego. Well , notice how some have certain habits that are from a “past life” well these aren’t nessecarrly past lives , they are what happens when you translate what the id has stored and what you get from the Psychosexual development imprints, or possibly one of the “defense mechanisms” related to a early life experience. (like tragic death)

EXAMPLE. JIMMY has a has a problem with gambling, or is always tense , what ever, (still works), he goes for a past life reading, and gets that he did not resolve something in his past life. in reality jimmy, somewhere between 0-6yrs of age, had something that was imprinted to a part of the subconcious (maybe picked up under normal hypnosis) or to the ID/ego and/or Psychosexual development artifact. these might come up as past lifes, since the ID might interpreted that way, because you don’t get the actual event all the time.

so unless you get something that the person could NOT have imagined OR KNOWN, I.E something 2000 years ago, that is not something they could know, but is a known fact. (like being able to recall a statement made ,that has a transcript to match) you aren’t sure if you hit anything but the ID making an story to match its encoding.

IN SHort, you instead of getting a past life, get a translation of the subconscious’ contents. and when you fix it you reprogram the subconscious.

 

[PaperMoon]

I know the Bible does seem to say that reincarnation is not true, but my question is what if reincarnation is a type of purgatory where souls go to learn and get things right that they messed up|? And what about the verse that says it is appointed for men once to die, yet Lazarus and many others in the Bible died twice since they were brought back to life then lived and died again later, and what about Enoch and Elijah who were taken and didn’t die at all! So the understanding of that verse must be incorrect since the Bible tells of those who died more than once and some who never died at all. Then there\s the question of what is death? What we used to think of as death is forever changing as we get more technology that allows people who died clinically to be brought back to life and near death experiences where people see God and are sent back by Him. Then some say we are not allowed to come back in different bodies but what about people who get donor parts or prosthetic parts or people who get donor hearts. When their old heart is removed they die clinically no heartbeat, and are brougth back to life with the donor heart. People used to believe that someone was dead without a heart yet people walk around the same soul living with the heart of a different person, so does their heart being gone make them “dead” and the dead person still alive who’s heart is beating inside the donor recipitant? Technology is making us realize that there’s a lot about the spirit realm that we don’t know or understand. The Bible says the life is in the blood so what about people with blood transfusions? What about cloning when technology reaches the point to where that\s possible? What about frozen embryos? They are people too.

Plus think about how in the Biblical days people lived for hundreds of years before the lifespan of humanity went down to 70yrs. and originally man was made to live forever in a human body before the fall of Adam. Plus who knows how many humans died by way of miscarriage in the past before technology allowed for more and more concieved people to live? So there really is no way to know for sure that the population is growing it just seems to be bcause techology allows for more and more to live longer and allowing deformed & sick babies that would have died before birth to live. so there\s no way to know if the population is really growing or just seems to be growing because of technology. Before technology more people and unborn babies dies younger and younger, now technology allos even babies 4 months premature to live! So it’s all very interesting to think about and there\s a lot we just don’t know for sure.

I think the whole idea scares the church because of how the other religions took on the belief and added strange stuff to it like being reincarnated as bugs and junk like that that’s not true.

Plus the Bible describes more than one death, there\s death of the body and soul death. Adam & Eve were told they would die that very day when they ate the fruit and they did die, just not a physical death. What if the |“appointed to all men once to die then the judgement” meant soul death or the fall of mankind? It is appointed to all men/mankind once to die or once to fall, then after that the judgement. It is appointed to mankind once to fall then after the fall of mankind the judgement. That would make more sense in explaining why some were raised form the dead like Lazarus and then eventually died again and why some never did die at all. The Bible describes those who have died as asleep and told Adam & Eve they would die the day they ate the fruit. So I think there’s just a lot we don’t understand fully and God just made sure that we understood the most important which is salvation through Jesus’ death on the cross and judgement for those who reject Jesus and the gospel and message of Jesus’ death. So it\s somehting to think about and all very interesting to me.

 

[thistle]

I know the Bible does seem to say that reincarnation is not true, but my question is what if reincarnation is a type of purgatory where souls go to learn and get things right that they messed up|? And what about the verse that says it is appointed for men once to die, yet Lazarus and many others in the Bible died twice since they were brought back to life then lived and died again later, and what about Enoch and Elijah who were taken and didn’t die at all! So the understanding of that verse must be incorrect since the Bible tells of those who died more than once and some who never died at all. Then there\s the question of what is death? What we used to think of as death is forever changing as we get more technology that allows people who died clinically to be brought back to life and near death experiences where people see God and are sent back by Him. Then some say we are not allowed to come back in different bodies but what about people who get donor parts or prosthetic parts or people who get donor hearts. When their old heart is removed they die clinically no heartbeat, and are brougth back to life with the donor heart. People used to believe that someone was dead without a heart yet people walk around the same soul living with the heart of a different person, so does their heart being gone make them “dead” and the dead person still alive who’s heart is beating inside the donor recipitant? Technology is making us realize that there’s a lot about the spirit realm that we don’t know or understand. The Bible says the life is in the blood so what about people with blood transfusions? What about cloning when technology reaches the point to where that\s possible? What about frozen embryos? They are people too.

Plus think about how in the Biblical days people lived for hundreds of years before the lifespan of humanity went down to 70yrs. and originally man was made to live forever in a human body before the fall of Adam. Plus who knows how many humans died by way of miscarriage in the past before technology allowed for more and more concieved people to live? So there really is no way to know for sure that the population is growing it just seems to be bcause techology allows for more and more to live longer and allowing deformed & sick babies that would have died before birth to live. so there\s no way to know if the population is really growing or just seems to be growing because of technology. Before technology more people and unborn babies dies younger and younger, now technology allos even babies 4 months premature to live! So it’s all very interesting to think about and there\s a lot we just don’t know for sure.

I think the whole idea scares the church because of how the other religions took on the belief and added strange stuff to it like being reincarnated as bugs and junk like that that’s not true.

Plus the Bible describes more than one death, there\s death of the body and soul death. Adam & Eve were told they would die that very day when they ate the fruit and they did die, just not a physical death. What if the |“appointed to all men once to die then the judgement” meant soul death or the fall of mankind? It is appointed to all men/mankind once to die or once to fall, then after that the judgement. It is appointed to mankind once to fall then after the fall of mankind the judgement. That would make more sense in explaining why some were raised form the dead like Lazarus and then eventually died again and why some never did die at all. The Bible describes those who have died as asleep and told Adam & Eve they would die the day they ate the fruit. So I think there’s just a lot we don’t understand fully and God just made sure that we understood the most important which is salvation through Jesus’ death on the cross and judgement for those who reject Jesus and the gospel and message of Jesus’ death. So it\s somehting to think about and all very interesting to me.

There is NO reincarnation. End of story. You are Catholic and have to accept that.