Reincarnation?

[vincent10395]

What are the best arguments against reincarnation?

Thanks, and God Bless!

 

[lux]

Hebrews 9:27 comes to mind

 

[MarcoPolo]

If it’s someone who rejects Scripture, I would say a good argument against it is the lack of evidence for it. I would also suggest there is no consistency or prevalence at all even with supposed “past-life” memories.

 

[openmind77]

Hebrews 9:27 comes to mind

That does not sound like an argument, that is just a statement that we die once.

There are no good arguments against reincarnation, except that people keep saying - what is the point if we don’t remember our past lives.

Actually it is just the mortal human being and his brain that does not remember past lives. The soul remembers all its lives and learns from the lessons of each life.

It is a blessing that we do not remember past lives while living the current one, the memory of all of them would be too much of a burden.

 

[MarcoPolo]

Actually it is just the mortal human being and his brain that does not remember past lives. The soul remembers all its lives and learns from the lessons of each life.

May I ask what is the evidence for the above teaching?

 

[openmind77]

May I ask what is the evidence for the above teaching?

I am not sure what you are asking for. In which book is it written perhaps?- the Buddha said that he remembered all his lives, so did Krishna. The Soul is the eternal Self that has this knowledge.

But being written in some book is not really evidence - is there evidence that people who use contraceptives or masturbate go to eternal hell after one life (if they do not repent)?

Is there evidence that a mean, nasty old man who has not ever done anything for anyone else but also has not committed any mortal sins will go to eternal heaven after his death?

 

[vincent10395]

That does not sound like an argument, that is just a statement that we die once.

There are no good arguments against reincarnation, except that people keep saying - what is the point if we don’t remember our past lives.

Actually it is just the mortal human being and his brain that does not remember past lives. The soul remembers all its lives and learns from the lessons of each life.

It is a blessing that we do not remember past lives while living the current one, the memory of all of them would be too much of a burden.

So you say that are souls learn lessons from our past lives, very interesting. What intrigues me is the fact that the world is worse now then ever. If we are learning lessons how come the world is this way?

Praying for you! God Bless!

 

[vincent10395]

I am not sure what you are asking for. In which book is it written perhaps?- the Buddha said that he remembered all his lives, so did Krishna. The Soul is the eternal Self that has this knowledge.

But being written in some book is not really evidence - is there evidence that people who use contraceptives or masturbate go to eternal hell after one life (if they do not repent)?

Is there evidence that a mean, nasty old man who has not ever done anything for anyone else but also has not committed any mortal sins will go to eternal heaven after his death?

He is asking for the evidence that once a body dies the soul goes into another body. Where is the evidence? We’re not talking about Catholic/Christian theology. We’re talking about reincarnation.

 

[openmind77]

He is asking for the evidence that once a body dies the soul goes into another body. Where is the evidence? We’re not talking about Catholic/Christian theology. We’re talking about reincarnation.

We are talking about what happens to us after death.

I am saying there is as little evidence that people who use contraceptives or masturbate go to eternal hell after they die (if they do not repent) or that a mean, nasty old man who has not ever done anything for anyone else but also has not committed any mortal sins will go to eternal heaven after his death as there is for reincarnation.

All these beliefs have no real scientific evidence but the first two beliefs of eternal heaven/hell (at least in my opinion) are not logical or just.

 

[openmind77]

So you say that are souls learn lessons from our past lives, very interesting. What intrigues me is the fact that the world is worse now then ever. If we are learning lessons how come the world is this way?

Praying for you! God Bless!

I am not sure that the world is much worse than ever -several decades ago I would probably have to sit at the back of the bus and drink from a separate fountain, wouldn’t I?

There has definitely been progress in human beings - unfortunately not enough to eliminate all problems (poverty, war, discrimination etc).

 

[vincent10395]

We are talking about what happens to us after death.

I am saying there is as little evidence that people who use contraceptives or masturbate go to eternal hell after they die (if they do not repent) or that a mean, nasty old man who has not ever done anything for anyone else but also has not committed any mortal sins will go to eternal heaven after his death as there is for reincarnation.

All these beliefs have no real scientific evidence but the first two beliefs of eternal heaven/hell (at least in my opinion) are not logical or just.

Sorry but the Title is literally “reincarnation?”. We can talk about what other religions believe about the after life on some other thread.

 

[vincent10395]

I am not sure that the world is much worse than ever -several decades ago I would probably have to sit at the back of the bus and drink from a separate fountain, wouldn’t I?

There has definitely been progress in human beings - unfortunately not enough to eliminate all problems (poverty, war, discrimination etc).

What about abortion, euthanasia, crime rates up to a high, careless parents, abusive parents, pornography, and believe me there is still a lot of religious and racial discrimination. Don’t you think that it would take only a few lives to eliminate these problems? I mean yes there have been some improvements as you mentioned (only in this country) but the problems are increasing more then the solutions.

Now the fact that our soul knows what is wrong or right doesn’t matter. You can’t equate knowledge with virtue, because honestly just because we know what is right and what is wrong doesn’t change the fact that we can still choose wrong.

 

[Emese]

What about abortion, euthanasia, crime rates up to a high, careless parents, abusive parents, pornography, and believe me there is still a lot of religious and racial discrimination. Don’t you think that it would take only a few lives to eliminate these problems? I mean yes there have been some improvements as you mentioned (only in this country) but the problems are increasing more then the solutions.

Now the fact that our soul knows what is wrong or right doesn’t matter. You can’t equate knowledge with virtue, because honestly just because we know what is right and what is wrong doesn’t change the fact that we can still choose wrong.

I also think that the world is actually getting better. However, according to the teachings of reincarnation this isn’t anything to go by as souls are being born and ascending all the time so the actual “living” number of young, midterm and old souls are inconsistent throughout the centuries anyway. There are tendencies as for example the old soul population is usually in the minority, but that’s about it.

As far as I know the Bible I have not found anything that speaks against reincarnation, so I’m not sure if there is any “proof”. I agree with Openmind that accepting heaven-hell or reincarnation is a matter of personal belief.

 

[MarcoPolo]

We are talking about what happens to us after death.

I am saying there is as little evidence that people who use contraceptives or masturbate go to eternal hell after they die (if they do not repent) or that a mean, nasty old man who has not ever done anything for anyone else but also has not committed any mortal sins will go to eternal heaven after his death as there is for reincarnation.

All these beliefs have no real scientific evidence but the first two beliefs of eternal heaven/hell (at least in my opinion) are not logical or just.

I will forgo offering evidence for Christianity’s teachings as the OP would like to stay on topic. But as to human supposed “progress,” even if it were quantifiably true, I do not understand how that would be evidence for reincarnation and not simply learning from the past mistakes of others.

 

[GPGT]

So you say that are souls learn lessons from our past lives, very interesting. What intrigues me is the fact that the world is worse now then ever. If we are learning lessons how come the world is this way?

Try explaining this away…

 

[openmind77]

I will forgo offering evidence for Christianity’s teachings as the OP would like to stay on topic. But as to human supposed “progress,” even if it were quantifiably true, I do not understand how that would be evidence for reincarnation and not simply learning from the past mistakes of others.

I was not offering the world being better as evidence of reincarnation, merely responding to the post that said it was worse.

If we want to talk about reincarnation and whether it is true or not, we obviously have to talk about if the alternatives have any better evidence or logic behind them.

Actually I don’t think we can resolve which theory is true right now, there is no real evidence either way. As someone else posted, it depends on personal belief.

However, when the Christ finally returns to the world, he will tell us what is really true and all these questions will be resolved (I hope you will take his word for it - don’t bet on him agreeing with everything the Church says).

I don’t think we have to wait long, I personally think it is just a wait of a couple of years.

 

[billcu1]

To the Church Jesus may have simply been silent concerning reincarnation. The church reminds me of today’s litany. Hears and not doers. When Jesus returns I bet the church will be the first to scream “The devil is among us!”. It is he who seeks that will find. Not those who stand in temples and cry “Lord Lord!”. Someone said these are bad times. These are glorious times things are being revealed that haven’t been revealed since the end of a 10k and 100k year cycle. Few things have been said that is being said now. I would say to the church “None of these men I invited will taste of my dinner”.

 

[White_Tree]

So you say that are souls learn lessons from our past lives, very interesting. What intrigues me is the fact that the world is worse now then ever. If we are learning lessons how come the world is this way?

There is no guarantee that the “soul” will actually get “better” over time.

Those with continuous remembrances of their past lives often describe their many lives together as being like one, continuous life, sometimes manifested in the physical world, sometimes not.

Just like there are trajectories that we take in (a single) life, there can also be trajectories we take in life taken as a string of many lives. Just because people have memories of this life, that does not mean that they necessarily learn lessons from their mistakes in this life. Some people learn their lessons. Most people just get worse.

Even in the traditions that teach rebirth, there are heavens and hells in which the individual can be reborn, and the hells are vastly more populated than the heavens. It is not a continuous ascending arc up to Nirvana. It is a cycle. It is Jacob’s Ladder. There is a continual interchange, up and down. Even those who go up to the heavens ultimately descend back down (see Bhagavad Gita 10:20-21; Buddhism also teaches this).

So the fact that our world is getting worse over time is a poor argument against rebirth, since it is actually what we should expect to happen if rebirth is true. Most people are not spending their lives meditating to learn the lessons of their previous lives. Most people are spending their lives increasing their attachment to desires and deepening their mental conditioning. Then, this deeper mental conditioning and deeper attachment to desires follows them into the next life, and they start off even worse than they did before. In the Bhagavad Gita, Krishna says he causes those who are evil to to be reborn to those who have similar evil tendencies (16:19-20; see also Matthew 25:29), so the consequence of this is that those of us who are on a downward trajectory (as most of us are) will just continue on that path straight into hell.

 

[wcknight]

First off, there is no indication in our faith that reincarnation is a possibility. None of the saints and nothing in scriptures ever mentions it as a possibility.

Second. one lifetime is tramatic enough. Having to face death and the unknown once is terrifying enough. I would not want to have to do it over and over again.

Third, IF folks are reincarnated, you would think they would learn from the prior life’s mistakes. Otherwise what is the point of being reincarnated. And IF folks did learn from past mistake, then why are there so many idiots and evil folks in the world ?

On the other hand, one life time hardly seems enough time to learn everything there is about life. Having one set of experiences in a relatively small set of situations seems to minimally qualify us for eternal happiness with God. For example, folks who are born into relatively prosperous families have a very different set of experiences as a poor family. Folks born into slavery or into an oppressed minority group have very different experiences than the predominant majority.

There are many life situations, how one reacts in each set of circumstances could be far different from the ones that they are given. I may rebel or be a psychopath in one situation or I may be very comfortable and accepting in another. I may succeed with a lot of help or fail miserably if there is no support or vice versa. Thankfully, God has given me a great support system in this life. The question is how would I do if I had a much weaker set of circumstances or would I be a total jerk if I was born into great wealth, fame, or power ?

We admire folks who rise up from obscurity and do well, and we despise folks who are born into apparent great circumstances and do stupid things to ruin it all. We don’t know how we would fare, unless placed in similar conditions, that would be one argument for having souls reincarnated/

 

[billcu1]

The thing is we are in an ocean of suffering and in all our good works done by ourselves and the evil deeds we just can’t keep our heads above water for very long. We need a certain level of purification for our works to gain merit. We make it to the top of the water and sink back down. Someone from above has to come down and get a hold of us and pull us out. For example Shakyamuni buddha was already in a heaven. The pureland of maitreya bodhisattva. He was in comfort but not in enlightenment. So he came here and manged to obtain the enlightenment. Next kalpa will come maitreya to become a buddha. Amitabha was a buddha before this universe was ever created. He was never human but is depicted as human. Why not? Krishna never had a physical body and was never flesh but those around could only see what they could see.