Reintroduction of Tridentine Rite ecumenical?

[Lilyflower]

Is it conceivable that His Holiness has reintroduced the Tradentine Rite as an act of ecumenism to pave the way towards greater unity and consistency with Holy Orthodox?

I can think of no other reason given that most to whom the Tradentine Mass was so meaningful have died which leaves only one other explanation that I can think of. I just wonder if His Holiness intends to reintroduce the longer period of fasting - consistent with Holy Orthodoxy and the reintroduction of fasting on Wednesdays and Fridays - which some Catholics never did give up!

Any thoughts?

Blessings and peace

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Lily, with respect, at (about to be) 52 I’m not dead yet!

In fact, I think I’m getting better!

Furthermore, there are a lot of people my children’s ages and even younger–who had never experienced the EF save on rare indult occasions or in SSPX chapels (no, we never went to SSPX but many did)–who are not only interested, but faithful EF Mass goers.

I won’t deny that perhaps part of it may affect our Orthodox brothers and sisters, but really, the Mass was never abrogated in the first place. It was never meant to ‘die away’. John Paul 2 (God bless him) had indults out. . .knowing and seeing even in the late 1970s and early 1980s that a sizeable number of Catholics wanted this Mass, and knowing it was never meant to be ‘taken away’ or stopped. The numbers of people going to this Mass, wishing to go to this Mass, becoming regular members of parishes where the Mass is being offered, is increasing. . .and not just in the 50-and-over age gruop.

 

[BrendanD]

Traditional seminaries/parishes are filled with young men/families. Many of them drive hours every Sunday to attend the TLM. It’s not like the Latin Masses are full of old people that just never switched to the NO.

The Orthodox don’t celebrate the Tridentine Mass or anything similar. I doubt if Pope cares about “consistency” with a schismatic church anyway?

 

[A.Pelliccio]

IDK what the Holy Father’s intentions are, but being that I was witness to several Orthodox Liturgies during my time with US KFOR in the Serbian province of Kosovo i Metohija, I will say that we and the Orthodox have much in common, and we had even more with the TLM was the ordinary form of the Mass.

 

[maurin]

Dear Lily,

44 years old here, and probably right in the middle of my life…God willing.

EF Mass exclusively now, SSPX Chapel the only EF offered within an hour or so drive.

I have started a Latin Mass Society in my area in the hopes of getting a Diocesan EF or the FSSP in my area. I will not support with my presence or my dollars the heterodoxy preached in the Parishes in my area.

In the meantime, it’s the SSPX Chapel 15 minutes from my house for me.

 

[bpbasilphx]

**
The Orthodox don’t celebrate the Tridentine Mass or anything similar. I doubt if Pope cares about “consistency” with a schismatic church anyway?**

**There are Western Rite Orthodox Churches that do celebrate the Tridentine Rite–generally called the Liturgy of St. Gregory–in Latin, the vernacular, or a mixture.

One such church is St. Augustine’s in Denver, which has a web site.**

 

[pnewton]

His motive is not known unless he states it, which he hasn’t. If anything ecumenical is intended it would be more likely aimed at those who can not find the Mass available in a parish in union with Rome. I hope whatever his motive it bears out pastoral fruits for those who prefer the spirituality of the TLM.

 

[Lilyflower]

**His motive is not known unless he states it, which he hasn’t. ** If anything ecumenical is intended it would be more likely aimed at those who can not find the Mass available in a parish in union with Rome. I hope whatever his motive it bears out pastoral fruits for those who prefer the spirituality of the TLM.

My emphasis.

So it’s a little secret between him and the Holy Spirit, so let us in faith trust and believe it is for the eventual greater good.

It will be wonderful to see how it all pans out.

Blessings and peace.

 

[Dempsey1919]

Is it conceivable that His Holiness has reintroduced the Tradentine Rite as an act of ecumenism to pave the way towards greater unity and consistency with Holy Orthodox?

How would greater use of the Tridentine Mass within the Latin Rite of the Catholic Church promote “unity and consistency” with the Orthodox Churches?

The Orthodox Churches have their own separate and distinct liturgies and traditions. I doubt they would be concerned or even bothered about liturgical changes in the west because it does not affect them directly. The Eastern Churches do not use either form of the Roman rite, and it would seem unlikely that they would be interested in any changes to these Masses.

Unity does not depend on liturgy; it depends on doctrine. There will be no unity between the East and West until the Orthodox can reconcile latin theological developments with their own doctrinal positions. Doctrine is a far more important consideration in ecumenical debate; in comparison, liturgy seems somewhat insignificant.

 

[bpbasilphx]

There will be no unity between the East and West until the Orthodox can reconcile latin theological developments with their own doctrinal positions.

Or vice reconciled with versa.

 

[Dempsey1919]

Or vice reconciled with versa.

Latin theology has developed far more than Orthodox theology. The Catholic Church professes the entire Orthodox faith, but the Orthodox Churches do not profess the entire Catholic faith. The Catholic Church has no issues with most Orthodox dogmas, but the Orthodox have several issues with Catholic dogma.

The Orthodox must accept the validity of Latin theological expression. The ony other solution would be for the Catholic Church to reject and deny over 1000 years of doctrinal development. This would not be possible.

 

[aussie_melkite]

Latin theology has developed far more than Orthodox theology. The Catholic Church professes the entire Orthodox faith, but the Orthodox Churches do not profess the entire Catholic faith. The Catholic Church has no issues with most Orthodox dogmas, but the Orthodox have several issues with Catholic dogma.

The Orthodox must accept the validity of Latin theological expression. The ony other solution would be for the Catholic Church to reject and deny over 1000 years of doctrinal development. This would not be possible.

Orthodox certinly do profess the entire CATHOLIC faith… the West just went ahead and CHANGED the faith then called itself “catholic”

only the Church as a whole in an Ecumenical council can define the Catholic faith, no one man, or even a local council (or even a ecumenical council) can changed moderfiy the faith unless the ENTIRE church approves it…that is how the first seven councils operated after that rome just started dictating to the east and orient…
the Catholic faith is “what was belived by all people, in all times and in all places.” not just what Rome thinks…Rome is ONE local Church in the Catholic Religon, and whislt the Bishop of Rome was Honoured by the east (and today many orthodox would still honour him) he does not dictate Theology to the Christian world…only an Ecumenical Council of the ENTIRE body of Christ can do that.

and in sayign that…May God Bless Pope Benedict, Many Years to him

 

[Mandy31]

---

This is Mandy31.

I am learning a lot more of the Catholic faith. I’d like to put my two
cents in.

I wish there was a Latin Mass celebrated in our church here in South Carolina.
I asked our Priest if He would say a Latin Mass. He said it was too complicated and he wouldn’t try to do one.

I am wondering if he was taught Latin or id he did maybe forgot some of it. He is about 50 plus years of age. And began his priestly career as a monk.

I used to love the Latin Mass until Vatican 11.

Someone on this forum said the church was turned into a protestant one. I agree with the all statements made. We don’t have any quiet time to pray because of people talking out loud. I could write an essay on it.

We don’t have a Bishop now. He was transferred to Alabama.

Mandy31

 

[Matthias123]

Young people do indeed like the EF. I am 17, and I need to spend an hour in a half on the bus to get to a parish that celebrates this beautiful liturgy. I pray that everyone would get to experience the EF, and that it is used every Sunday in every parish, along with the OF.

 

[pnewton]

…that it is used every Sunday in every parish, along with the OF.

Why? Of all the things that have caused me to scratch my head in this place is why some people desire the TLM in parishes where they will never attend and where no body wants it.

 

[CassiusLonginus]

Why? Of all the things that have caused me to scratch my head in this place is why some people desire the TLM in parishes where they will never attend and where no body wants it.

Same can be asked of the OF a few decades back…

Just by having the EF there, people may start to come. At my old OF parish I had no choice. I didn’t even know the EF existed. Had they offered one, I would have gone to that Mass every Sunday instead of the OF. The first EF I ever went to was over an hour’s drive from my folks’ house, and after that I never went back to the OF. It sure would have been nice to have the EF at the church by my folks’ house, instead of driving 50 miles. And then when I went back to school in Bloomington, IN, it would have been nice if one of the three parishes in town, with multiple priests were to have had the EF, instead of having to drive 50 miles (again!) to Indianapolis. Just sayin’…if the EF is offered, even without anybody asking for it, people will go, and then like you, they will scratch their heads (but for a different reason, i.e. ‘why didn’t they provide the EF sooner!!!’).

 

[pnewton]

Same can be asked of the OF a few decades back…

So your answer it …revenge? I don’t get it. Maybe you think you know how every feels, or that all believe like you?

I am reminded of the kids that drive around with their windows down and their stereos up to a booming level. Because they think their music is so good, everybody ought to have to listen.

Maybe there is a reason the EF appeals to young people.

 

[CassiusLonginus]

So your answer it …revenge? I don’t get it. Maybe you think you know how every feels, or that all believe like you?

If you’re a Catholic and I’m a Catholic…we believe the same…perhaps we just worship differently. As to your other question, of course it’s not revenge! How silly. I was just pointing out that Rome swapped the Masses on us though nobody asked for it or wanted it…they did it just the same. And so today, why not mandate that Roman Catholic churches offer both? That way nobody’d feel left out.

I am reminded of the kids that drive around with their windows down and their stereos up to a booming level. Because they think their music is so good, everybody ought to have to listen.

Last I checked, the Novus Ordo is the one ‘booming’ whereas the TLM is…

Ahhh, silence is golden!

Maybe there is a reason the EF appeals to young people.

It appeals to Catholics of all ages the same way the OF appeals to Catholics of all ages. It’s all about which is better (define that how you’d like). I will say, however, that there definitely is a reason why trads are willing to drive a hundred miles to get to Mass, and it’s not because it’s in Latin…

 

[pnewton]

If you’re a Catholic and I’m a Catholic…we believe the same…perhaps we just worship differently. As to your other question, of course it’s not revenge! How silly. I was just pointing out that Rome swapped the Masses on us though nobody asked for it or wanted it…they did it just the same. And so today, why not mandate that Roman Catholic churches offer both? That way nobody’d feel left out.

I can specify my reason. Some parishes simply have no interest, usually because they are small enough not to have enough Masses or enough parishoner. The priest usually know better than special interest groups from diverse parts of the country. On the other hand, I totally agree that there is not excuse for people having to drive an hour to find a TLM in light of what the Holy Father has said. But there is a lot of middle ground between these two extremes. I sure wouldn’t mind my parish being a trial ground for this area to start one, are alt least host one. I would think the collection alone would be incentive if there was enough interest, to be totally cynical.

 

[Lilyflower]

Traditional seminaries/parishes are filled with young men/families. Many of them drive hours every Sunday to attend the TLM. It’s not like the Latin Masses are full of old people that just never switched to the NO.

The Orthodox don’t celebrate the Tridentine Mass or anything similar. I** doubt if Pope cares about “consistency” with a schismatic church anyway**?

My emphasis:

In the heat of the moment they excommunicated each other!

Typical of two brothers squabbling.

In the cold sober light of day, I doubt the validity of each others excommunication.

His Holiness Pope Benedict is trying to form greater dialogue with Holy Orthodox. The respective Patriarch’s of East and West have only to make the commitment, the Holy Spirit will do the rest.

It is my experience that the Holy Spirit is moving hearts and souls to think about unification. I believe it will happen. There are undoubtedly major obstacles to be over-come. With God all things are possible.

I may not live to see it but I have every faith one day it WILL happen.

Blessings and peace.